Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[platonov]

Tsunami or a ripple in the flange

I must admit I haven’t been pursuing the thread as much so missed the comment, I agree; but really are you surprised by the lack of censure? I’m not.

Watch the tsunami response now.

I would applaud you for your prescience but I think you would agree that this is more a case of 'the bleedin obvious'


In related news – the PMF fixation hasn't gone away.

 

[Kestrel]

Poster X made a snarky and inappropriate comment, therefore anyone on the same side as poster X is responsible.

Here on JREF, we should recognize such assertions as a logical fallacy. Even if logic doesn't matter on other forums, it does here.

 

[LondonJohn]

I would applaud you for your prescience but I think you would agree that this is more a case of 'the bleedin obvious'


In related news – the PMF fixation hasn't gone away.

In news related to one of the people who's the actual subject of this thread:

So, platonov, what do you think about the way that the porn company's monetary offer to Knox was covered in the Media. Do you think various serious media outlets were correct to

a) report the story with any emphasis or imbued-significance in the first place?

b) make any flimsily-implied connection to Knox herself (far less actually suggesting that she might take up the offer, and even less suggesting that she might have been a proactive participant in the generation of the offer)?

c) fail to condemn the porn company for its inherent sexism and misogyny, instead seeming to treat it as nothing more than a bit of a smutty "laugh"?


Your input on the discussion related to the case and its protagonists would indeed be welcome and relished. Thanks in advance.

 

[LondonJohn]

It's hard to believe anyone is finding any meaning at all in this bit of news. Porn companies make these offers all the time, to every famous person. As one poster wrote:

Yes. I wonder what Ganong's response would be if a mainstream media publisher produced a straight report on the same company making an unsolicited offer to her (Ganong) to star in one of their adult videos.

Or, in the real world, what would the response be if the company offered - say - Angela Merkel or Hillary Clinton the same deal. Call me a mind reader, but somehow I don't think that those sort of "offers" would be treated with the same sort of implied levity and lack-of-criticism in the media as the Knox "offer". And somehow I don't think that Ganong (or anyone else with any media literacy and regard for women's rights) would be laughing off any criticism either.

 

[tsig]

del

 

[Bill Williams]

del

Oooops... this was deleted before I could respond.

Amanda Knox was wrongfully convicted of calunnia, which is implicating someone in a crime while knowing that they were not involved.

There is no way Knox could have known if Lumumba was involved or not. She "broke and told us what we already knew". Meaning, at the time, that she succumbed to going along with the PLE in the fingering of Lumumba.

What makes this a wrongful conviction is that the obligatory video/audiotapes of the interrogation were never produced.

Sorry I got this as the message was deleted...

 

[Bill Williams]

Now, here's another interesting thing about this. There were (are) a number of reader comments below the article that essentially make the salient points that this is nothing to do with Knox, and that it's also a tawdry exhibition of (and implicit endorsement of) a creeping sort of sexism and woman-objectivism. Which it is. But even stranger is the fact that Peggy Ganong has chosen to comment on the article and its reaction. In her comment, she's opined that people should be "laughing" at the story rather than pointing out its rather obvious flaws and social failings. And this from a woman who, if I remember correctly, positions herself as some sort of proto-feminist. It's interesting and instructive because it tells us very clearly that Ganong is readily willing to abdicate her own beliefs and core values if it means having the opportunity to denigrate a personal hate figure (Amanda Knox). She's an intellectual midget and a sad, bitter little woman. Shame on her.

In a rare moment of web-site moderating, Peggy did object to some users on .ORG using "slut" to describe Amanda Knox.

 

[Dan O.]

I would remind everybody that we are not to be talking about each other in this thread. I shall therefore not be responding to comments about me though I might make a note of them in the future.


So what is "their world". It would seem that they believe Amanda and Raffaele are responsible for the murder of their daughter/sister. But, what about Rudy? So many motives have been presented to explain this crime. It seems there is a new motive for every prosecutore that presents the case as well as one for every judge that hears it. For each one, what is highly improbable for two new lovers becomes impossible when you try to fit a drifter into the mix. So, do they believe instead that Rudy is telling the truth?

• Do they believe that Rudy met Meredith at the disco on Halloween night?
• Do they believe that Rudy and Meredith arranged a date?
• Do they believe that Meredith invited Rudy into the cottage?
• Do they believe Rudy and Meredith were engaged in consensual sexual foreplay?
• Do they believe that Rudy was sitting on the toilet when somebody else entered the cottage and murdered Meredith?

Obviously if they accepted all that they would believe that Rudy was the last friend and intimate acquaintance of Meredith and he would have been welcome into their family if the relationship had continued.


Is there any evidence that shows Meredith's family do not believe the above points? This in skeptics parlance would be called attacking the argument.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes. I wonder what Ganong's response would be if a mainstream media publisher produced a straight report on the same company making an unsolicited offer to her (Ganong) to star in one of their adult videos.

Or, in the real world, what would the response be if the company offered - say - Angela Merkel or Hillary Clinton the same deal. Call me a mind reader, but somehow I don't think that those sort of "offers" would be treated with the same sort of implied levity and lack-of-criticism in the media as the Knox "offer". And somehow I don't think that Ganong (or anyone else with any media literacy and regard for women's rights) would be laughing off any criticism either.

Let's be honest. I'm sure the porn company probably never even talked to Amanda. They made a public offering looking for publicity. Amanda is a pretty girl in the news. So they thought that they could get some pub. And of course the main stream media thought that they could sell some advertising for a juicy story.
Sex sells.

 

[Grinder]

Yes. I wonder what Ganong's response would be if a mainstream media publisher produced a straight report on the same company making an unsolicited offer to her (Ganong) to star in one of their adult videos.

 

[LondonJohn]

Let's be honest. I'm sure the porn company probably never even talked to Amanda. They made a public offering looking for publicity. Amanda is a pretty girl in the news. So they thought that they could get some pub. And of course the main stream media thought that they could sell some advertising for a juicy story.
Sex sells.

Oh I absolutely agree that this is almost certainly exactly what happened, and that this is exactly why certain media outlets chose to pick up and run with the "story".

But what I was trying to say was that a) media outlets who do employ such "reasoning" for running the story ought to be called out and censured for their failure to see the real story-behind-the-story: the latent sexism and misogyny that implicitly underpins the "offer"; and b) it was astonishing to see someone who would like to term herself a feminist pour scorn on this sort of warranted criticism/censuring of the media, seemingly for the sole reason that it thereby enabled her to take the "anti-Knox" line.

Again, I think that the social media commentary on this case screams out for a sociological/psychological dissertation. I was interested to see that indeed someone in the field of new media studies has done some work in relation to this. But I think there's a far more significant study to be done, and I think that its conclusions would be extremely educative and enlightening as we all struggle to figure out human interactions in the "web 2.0 and beyond" world.

 

[Grinder]

Let's be honest. I'm sure the porn company probably never even talked to Amanda. They made a public offering looking for publicity. Amanda is a pretty girl in the news. So they thought that they could get some pub. And of course the main stream media thought that they could sell some advertising for a juicy story.
Sex sells.

You think?

Now what the PI should be covering is what happens when Bertha breaks down underneath the Federal Building on 1st?

I'm surprised that the PGP haven't started to worry that she will be used to break Amanda out of custody as part of the grand Seattle conspiracy to protect her.

For those that for some reason use the term CTer to describe people here they should recall that the PGP have long had a vast conspiracy here that included people in power ordering people here not to speak badly about Amanda and the police hiding the police report and court records of the noise ticket.

 

[Bill Williams]

There are many forgotten people in the tabloid excesses about Amanda Knox. One of them is Rudy Guede. It's amazing how many people don't even know who he is....

Meredith's murderer.

One forgotten man is Raffaele - seen as simply a robot-like figure obeying "Luciferina" every whim.

This is the real Raffaele and the Italy he grew up in, and is trying to live in liberty in:

http://pitchforksposts.com/2014/02/13/the-disfigured-face-of-bella-figura-raffaele-sollecitos-italy/comment-page-1/#comment-12687

 

[AmyStrange]

I would remind everybody that we are not to be talking about each other in this thread. I shall therefore not be responding to comments about me though I might make a note of them in the future.
So what is "their world". It would seem that they believe Amanda and Raffaele are responsible for the murder of their daughter/sister. But, what about Rudy? So many motives have been presented to explain this crime. It seems there is a new motive for every prosecutore that presents the case as well as one for every judge that hears it. For each one, what is highly improbable for two new lovers becomes impossible when you try to fit a drifter into the mix. So, do they believe instead that Rudy is telling the truth?

• Do they believe that Rudy met Meredith at the disco on Halloween night?
• Do they believe that Rudy and Meredith arranged a date?
• Do they believe that Meredith invited Rudy into the cottage?
• Do they believe Rudy and Meredith were engaged in consensual sexual foreplay?
• Do they believe that Rudy was sitting on the toilet when somebody else entered the cottage and murdered Meredith?

Obviously if they accepted all that they would believe that Rudy was the last friend and intimate acquaintance of Meredith and he would have been welcome into their family if the relationship had continued.


Is there any evidence that shows Meredith's family do not believe the above points? This in skeptics parlance would be called attacking the argument.

-

I personally can't begrudge you what's highlighted.

I personally have nothing against you Dan O. I have enjoyed many if not all of your post, and I don't necessarily disagree with your anti-Kercher comment. Their reluctance to actually complain about that and Maresca is frustrating to me too, and it's not like I'm not guilty of saying off-handed remarks that other people might consider upsetting.

Knoxination, where someone is killed like the satanic one originally imagined by Mignini.

I'm guilty too,

d

-

 

[Desert Fox]

There are many forgotten people in the tabloid excesses about Amanda Knox. One of them is Rudy Guede. It's amazing how many people don't even know who he is....

Meredith's murderer.

One forgotten man is Raffaele - seen as simply a robot-like figure obeying "Luciferina" every whim.

This is the real Raffaele and the Italy he grew up in, and is trying to live in liberty in:

http://pitchforksposts.com/2014/02/13/the-disfigured-face-of-bella-figura-raffaele-sollecitos-italy/comment-page-1/#comment-12687

As I wrote previously, I would not blame him at all for running

 

[RandyN]

Who made the "Maybe in their world that makes him family" crack? I don't apologise for criticising it. Platonov takes it much further than I would have, but the insulting comment of Dan O deserved attention in my opinion.

Nor should you apologize. When I saw that reply I thought it was cringe worthy.

Additionally, I felt that it distracted from my more important point. And that point was not to sort out the Kerchers alone for failing to speak out against the day release for college class for Guede but they must be included in this strange silence from that side. And for now I lump them with the PGP and have as example Maresca making comment when KNox linked a donation site FOR THE KERCHERS on her web site. I found that silly...actually stupid since donations can only help the Kerchers and it was a link ...nothing more. Which tells me they have sensibilities ...just not against Guede the one true undisputed killer of their daughter!

So yep, I agree it was a unnecessary and an unfortunate comment and actually rather unlike 99.99% of DanOs comments.

I stand by my comment that the Kerchers by remaining silent and obviously keeping their paid mouth Maresca silent that they actually speak volumes. And it is nothing at all about race.

It is disgraceful dishonesty IMHO.

 

[acbytesla]

You think?

I do

Now what the PI should be covering is what happens when Bertha breaks down underneath the Federal Building on 1st?

Little late for that.

 

[Grinder]

Little late for that.

Really? What will they do then? I think it is a perfect time to think about it and cancel the project.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

<Snip>

In related news, here's something I find very interesting about commentary related to this case. The Seattle PI picked up the "story" of a porn video company making an unsolicited monetary offer to Knox to feature in one of their productions. To anyone with a reasoned mind and a capacity to think clearly, this was clearly nothing more than a crass and distasteful publicity stunt by the porn company, which had nothing whatsoever to do with anything instigated from Knox's side. It was therefore total and utter non-news; and, what's more it was a story rooted in sexism and degradation of women.

Therefore, if any serious media outlet was going to run a piece about this "story", it ought to have been a meta-article about the disgustingly poor taste and inherent sexism that it illustrates. The Seattle PI, however, chose to run it as a straight story, with a dose of tongue-in-cheek chuckling thrown in for good measure:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblo...re-than-20k-to-star-in-porn-video/#20507101=0


Now, here's another interesting thing about this. There were (are) a number of reader comments below the article that essentially make the salient points that this is nothing to do with Knox, and that it's also a tawdry exhibition of (and implicit endorsement of) a creeping sort of sexism and woman-objectivism. Which it is. But even stranger is the fact that Peggy Ganong has chosen to comment on the article and its reaction. In her comment, she's opined that people should be "laughing" at the story rather than pointing out its rather obvious flaws and social failings. And this from a woman who, if I remember correctly, positions herself as some sort of proto-feminist. It's interesting and instructive because it tells us very clearly that Ganong is readily willing to abdicate her own beliefs and core values if it means having the opportunity to denigrate a personal hate figure (Amanda Knox). She's an intellectual midget and a sad, bitter little woman. Shame on her.

I am not surprised. The media in its various forms don’t actually care about any of the people directly involved in this case and never have, it’s about selling copy, getting folks to watch a TV programme, it’s about selling ad space etc. The day after the Florence verdict Amanda appeared on ABC’s GMA; folks started talking about American public support swaying towards Amanda, a few days later those same people were up in arms because of ABC produced what some regarded as a negative article about the case.

Raffaele and Amanda’s lives will continue to be defined by Meredith’s murder they are surrounded by the sharks of the media waiting for anything to happen in their lives with a ready cheque book for that kiss n tell exclusive story of an end of a relationship or a family argument, anything that the media believe will increase sales or viewing figures.

 

[Mary_H]

Oh I absolutely agree that this is almost certainly exactly what happened, and that this is exactly why certain media outlets chose to pick up and run with the "story".

But what I was trying to say was that a) media outlets who do employ such "reasoning" for running the story ought to be called out and censured for their failure to see the real story-behind-the-story: the latent sexism and misogyny that implicitly underpins the "offer"; and b) it was astonishing to see someone who would like to term herself a feminist pour scorn on this sort of warranted criticism/censuring of the media, seemingly for the sole reason that it thereby enabled her to take the "anti-Knox" line.

Again, I think that the social media commentary on this case screams out for a sociological/psychological dissertation. I was interested to see that indeed someone in the field of new media studies has done some work in relation to this. But I think there's a far more significant study to be done, and I think that its conclusions would be extremely educative and enlightening as we all struggle to figure out human interactions in the "web 2.0 and beyond" world.

Maybe you could quote Peggy here, LJ, so we know what we're talking about. I'm a feminist and personally I think the porn offer is funny, too, although maybe not in the same way Peggy does, I don't know.

Good luck with point "a)."