Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

The note was definitely available to the public by November 22nd, 2007 as it ran in the Telegraph.

I have to sort of agree with a guilter point on this, and say WTF did the State Department do here? They have an allegation that a citizen has been abused while in the custody of a foreign government. Why isn't there a note of this or at least some interest in this issue? What good is the Department of State if they can't react to an issue as basic as this?

I have no indication that the State Department considered the issue and decided that everything was OK, but at the same time, why would it not have considered the issue? Seems incompetent to me.

 

[Kaosium]

-


-

So, he never said Amanda was there? Ever? Never?

d

-

Once he was in police custody his story 'evolved.' He added a part where while taking a dump he heard them arguing (in Italian!) about money. After he came out and he was accosted by the (once left-handed) Italian man who might have been Raffaele he claimed he went to Filomena's window and saw Amanda's silhouette outside.

 

[Kaosium]

I have to sort of agree with a guilter point on this, and say WTF did the State Department do here? They have an allegation that a citizen has been abused while in the custody of a foreign government. Why isn't there a note of this or at least some interest in this issue? What good is the Department of State if they can't react to an issue as basic as this?

I have no indication that the State Department considered the issue and decided that everything was OK, but at the same time, why would it not have considered the issue? Seems incompetent to me.

Judge Michael Heavey agrees.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

second memoriale

Has the last note mignini quoted from ever been made public?

I believe it is this one: Memoriale II: Retracting acquiescence to the interrogation depositions of 06 Nov 2007. Deposited 07 Nov 2007.
as listed on Amanda's site but there is no link.

from what I've seen the last one really is the most clear.

Grinder,

I agree that the second memoriale is clearer than the first. It is quoted in what I presume to be its entirety in Amanda's book, and one person posted it at Websleuths, but I have not been able to find the link.

 

[Kestrel]

Agreed. Why didn't they just say: "we cuffed her about the head until she said what we already knew to be true . . . caso chiuso."

In Italy, the cops are assumed to never hit anyone. This is a point of honor that Amanda didn't understand. As a naive American girl, she thought she needed to tell the truth in court.

When Amanda testified to being hit, the only way the cops could maintain their honor was to charge her with a crime.

 

[Welshman]

O.K got it - and it's immediately followed by "I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received". Not what you might call traumatic then. Don't misunderstand though, I don't condone it . Anyway let's agree with Knox here, the police have a job to do and they need to find the murderer pronto - and if Knox can "understand" it the "hit" wouldn't exactly have amounted to grievous bodily harm imo.

Anyway thanks for the reference.

If Amanda was well treated during the interrogation and lied about the abuse, why is it that in six years the police have refused to release recordings of the interrogation and were unwilling to have lawyers present?

 

[AmyStrange]

Dr. Sam Sheppard

-

Once he was in police custody his story 'evolved.' He added a part where while taking a dump he heard them arguing (in Italian!) about money. After he came out and he was accosted by the (once left-handed) Italian man who might have been Raffaele he claimed he went to Filomena's window and saw Amanda's silhouette outside.

-

I like how you tied that up with the Dr. Sam Sheppard (Richard Kimble, The Fugitive) storyline.

Nice, and thank you for your answer,

d

-

 

[Kestrel]

Grinder,

I agree that the second memoriale is clearer than the first. It is quoted in what I presume to be its entirety in Amanda's book, and one person posted it at Websleuths, but I have not been able to find the link.

When Amanda wrote that first note, she had been without sleep for about 36 hours other than a short nap in a hard chair. Under the circumstances, it's amazing that note is even readable.

 

[Grinder]

Grinder,

I agree that the second memoriale is clearer than the first. It is quoted in what I presume to be its entirety in Amanda's book, and one person posted it at Websleuths, but I have not been able to find the link.

So we've only been able to see the first one? She gave the two "spontaneous" official statements in the early hours of the 6th and the "gift" note (memorial) written later that same day but not the second one written the 7th.

For some reason I thought she had written three things after the "official" statements. Which ones were introduced in the two concurrent trials?

This can be put with the duodenum evidence in the category of why didn't the defense bring it out?

 

[Kaosium]

-


-

I like how you tied that up with the Dr. Sam Sheppard (Richard Kimble, The Fugitive) storyline.

Nice, and thank you for your answer,

d

-

Heh, I'm not old enough to remember that show, the best I recall is the movie version where Tommy Lee Jones stole the show. I thought that was a one-handed man though?

Rudy's original story included a left-handed Italian with no accent whose face he couldn't see.

 

[Grinder]

Once he was in police custody his story 'evolved.' He added a part where while taking a dump he heard them arguing (in Italian!) about money. After he came out and he was accosted by the (once left-handed) Italian man who might have been Raffaele he claimed he went to Filomena's window and saw Amanda's silhouette outside.

IIRC the evolving took more than one turn. First he had the story of the one-armed left handed guy and no Amanda. Then a woman's silhouette and then it became Amanda.

 

[Strozzi]

All of that couched in pages and pages of meaningless, pseudo-intellectual legalese the value of which will be in inverse proportion to Peter Quennell's obsequious admiration for it.

Don' worry about what it means. Machiavelli will explain it. My only concern is that he does understand Italian legalese and often gets it right.

 

[Kestrel]

The chances of three like-minded psychologically-ready to kill people meeting at random like that and actually agreeing to kill someone and then for over six years never say anything about this while even taking the chance of going to jail for it, well, it's pretty improbable, especially in less than 30 minutes, but that's just my opinion.

Another oddity is that if AK and RS were involved in the murder, why didn't any evidence of their guilt show up in the thousands of hours of recordings from their jail cells, conversations with their lawyers and phone calls?

 

[Grinder]

Another oddity is that if AK and RS were involved in the murder, why didn't any evidence of their guilt show up in the thousands of hours of recordings from their jail cells, conversations with their lawyers and phone calls?

They are master criminals and when they communicate they use mafia code.

The absence of evidence is not the proof that there was no evidence. Anglo can you straighten me out on that?

 

[AmyStrange]

One-armed man... left-handed Italian with no accent?

-

Heh, I'm not old enough to remember that show, the best I recall is the movie version where Tommy Lee Jones stole the show. I thought that was a one-handed man though?

Rudy's original story included a left-handed Italian with no accent whose face he couldn't see.

-

Ooops, you're right. It was a one-armed man.

I remembered the Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford movie first too, and what I remember about it most was when Ford (Kimble) said I'm innocent, and Jones says, "I don't care."

Somehow that fits in with this thread, but I don't know how to make it fit.

The way the knife wounds look to me, they were consistent with a right-handed man stabbing from behind Meredith, but that's my opinion.

No accent huh, what exactly does that mean? He spoke English with no accent?

d

-

 

[acbytesla]

-


-

For me, it's the eyes, but I think it's more about the shadows. They make her eyes look creepy and I would be lying if I said she looked ok to me.

Narcissism must be the new ying for the old yang, self esteem. You remember the old 'new' phrase, 'you don't have enough self esteem', well now, it's 'you have too much narcissism' instead.

Amanda likes that about herself, that she says what she thinks and what she thinks is mostly about herself, that is not necessarily a bad thing and it definitely doesn't prove she's a murderer,

d

-

The last thing in the world I think about Amanda is that she is narcissistic. Most of the pictures I've seen of Amanda she is wearing very little or no makeup. She doesn't spent all her time primping and posing.

That's not the signs of someone that is narcissistic. I do see her being both confident, maybe over confident and insecure at the same time. I've been that person.....I think most of us have to varying degrees. She's fearless when she should be cautious. Or at least I think she use to be.

But narcisstic? No way.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

Another oddity is that if AK and RS were involved in the murder, why didn't any evidence of their guilt show up in the thousands of hours of recordings from their jail cells, conversations with their lawyers and phone calls?

Whether they were involved or not, would any recordings from jail cells (or, more likely, visitor areas) be admissible in an Italian, or any other court? Would the authorities want anyone to know they do it routinely?

 

[acbytesla]

Chris Jefferies was arrested for the murder of Joanne Yeates that took place in Bristol in December 2010. Very creepy guy, living alone, coloured his hair blue, everybody thought he was a strange bird so it was definitely him, especially as he lived upstairs. He was fingered by young, upstanding Dutch engineer Vincent Tabak, who lived in the adjoining apartment. Perversely, the cops, after arresting Jefferies ridiculously let him go and arrested Tabak instead! All Tabak's friends and family said it was impossible it was him because he was such a nice normal guy. They were stunned when he pleaded guilty to manslaughter, a plea neither the crown nor the jury accepted, with the result he was convicted of murder leaving the real weirdo still walking around scot-free.

Sorry Anglo, I'm not sure I see the point of this post. Are you saying that Jefferies was most likely the killer? Or just pointing out that the visual exterior means little.

90 percent of the photos that I saw of Ted Bundy, he looked like normal and good looking, like the guy next door. Not strange and not a killer. But then after a while, book covers etc would show pictures of him that had that creepy look. But you know the had to look for just the right one.

 

[Grinder]

-
Ooops, you're right. It was a one-armed man.

-



-

ETA - Arm, hand - Jimmied, propped just semantics

 

[acbytesla]

Because the court awarded him the damages. It's normal to pay those, unless you want to be seen as being in contempt of court. Failure to do so also makes any apology look extremely shallow, to put it mildly.

Have you ever heard of an appeal? She was not ever held in contempt of court. Frankly, I don't think he deserves a dime form Amanda. Maybe the police that arrested him and kept his bar closed for 6 months. But the idea that Amanda owes him 30 plus thousand dollars is downright absurd for being coerced into naming him.