Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Where precisely can I find this documented please? All I can find is a transcript of Amanda Knox's handwritten statement to police on the evening of November 6 where she writes "...Please don't yell at me..." (I imagine police world-wide do that, and I certainly wouldn't blame them if they suspect someone is being less than straightforward).

I believe that is the memorial Chris mentioned.

Amanda's page has the note and other documents.

Don't forget that she was in custody when she wrote the notes. It is fair to give her a break in that she would fear that saying it was all untrue because the police had forced her to sign the statement would result in more harsh treatment.

The original statements are linked there as well and if you read them, you will wonder how the police could arrest Patrick based on them. You should also wonder how Patrick could be interrogated without a lawyer as he had to be a suspect.

 

[anglolawyer]

O.K got it - and it's immediately followed by "I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received". Not what you might call traumatic then. Don't misunderstand though, I don't condone it . Anyway let's agree with Knox here, the police have a job to do and they need to find the murderer pronto - and if Knox can "understand" it the "hit" wouldn't exactly have amounted to grievous bodily harm imo.

Anyway thanks for the reference.

It is entirely possible, and we may never know, that her strategy, based on advice, was to criticise the police as little as possible. As it was, even her mild account brought forth a slander claim. To harp on Grinder's excellent point (did you get it?) she has not morphed her account into something more dramatic upon realising there is no tape to falsify it. Unlike Patrick and Rudy, each of whose accounts have evolved over time.

 

[Desert Fox]

They were up against an egotistical prosecutor who had no problem denying access to legal council once they were arrested. They first met their lawyers walking into court for their arraignment. And following that, every conversation they had with their lawyers was recorded and reviewed by the prosecution.

Another visit on an old post. . . .What
Wouldn't in the US, the case be thrown out just for that?

 

[AmyStrange]

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The screensaver evidence is that the screensaver did activate throuout the night but never for longer than 6 minutes. The defense unfortunately did not present this data because it is of a technical nature and difficult to understand but they did asked for an independent review which Hellmann denied as it wasn't necessary in Hellmann's view to find the pair innocent. Nancini doesn't seem to have even considered it.

According to Rudy's statements, he was still thinking that Meredith could be alive while he was dancing that night. Is he comming back to the cottage after leaving the disco when other students that were out partying late would be comming home or already home? He would need to throw another rock through another window to make sure nobody had come home and fell asleep without noticing the broken window.

What one thing does Amanda need that can't wait for morning? Her cell phone charger perhaps, that is sitting right inside her bedroom door where she could grab it before noticing any any disturbing sounds comming from Meredith's room. And what sound would be so disturbing? Two people having sex behind a closed door? (or 1 person having sex with a corpse) Even if Rudy was doing his vampire imitation ”I want to suck your blood” while raping the dead body, this wouldn't frighten Amanda. If she was there and heard or saw anything she would have told the police every detail as she would believe this would help the police catch who murdered her friend.

Maybe you need to read Rudy's diary again. The sight of all that blood really disturbed him. He's not going back inside.

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didn't he also say Amanda was there that night?

d

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[Dan O.]

This was the same day that the PM took the girls to the cottage and discussed the knives. Did they let Amanda go at 3 pm, or did the trip to the cottage happen after that time?

I think the trip to see the knives was on the 3rd. From Amanda's testimony it is mentioned that on the 4th she was questioned, went home and came back. I haven't found good citations for the times yet. There may be better times in the other transcripts. Or, maybe somebody needs to grab a look at the police visitor logs. If the prosecution made any argument about her time at the station they should be open for a records request.

 

[Kestrel]

When I suspect someone of committing a crime, I beat them until they confess. Then I have proof the committed a crime and the beating was justified.

Or perhaps I could just use sleep deprivation and psychological tricks. Interrogate the suspect for several days to wear them down. The lie to them about the evidence against them and what others have said. Make them question their own memory, drop suggestions about what really happened and get them to imagine it was real.

Given enough time, almost anyone can be broken this way. The public will believe they are guilty because the don't understand how anyone could falsely confess.

 

[Dan O.]

Andrea Vogt wrote about it, although her article has the wrong title. So did Frank Sfarzo.

Stardust is mentioned in the defense closing. I note that it was specifically mentioned that the last access on the 6th was due to peer to peer file sharing and not attributed to police misconduct. That is something we argued endlessly about in the earlier threads due to the limited information source before concluding that it was probably peer to peer.

 

[Dan O.]

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didn't he also say Amanda was there that night?

d

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...

Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:19PM) I was in the bathroom when it happened. I tried to stop it but I couldn't do anything. Amanda had nothing to do with it.
jack says: (7:11:19PM) You have to tell me who was there.
Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:31PM) Because I fought with a male.
Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:36PM) And she wasn't there.

 

[Diocletus]

O.K got it - and it's immediately followed by "I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received". Not what you might call traumatic then. Don't misunderstand though, I don't condone it . Anyway let's agree with Knox here, the police have a job to do and they need to find the murderer pronto - and if Knox can "understand" it the "hit" wouldn't exactly have amounted to grievous bodily harm imo.

Anyway thanks for the reference.

Personally, I have a bright line rule for this one: police don't get to hit suspects. I'll bet that's what the law says, too.

 

[AmyStrange]

Screwing the pooch

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She just looks fairly normal to me, she has a naturally pretty face but seems like a bit of a geek. I don't think I've seen Amanda wear make-up apart from for TV interviews, which hardly makes her the looks obsessed Femme Fatale

She has pale eyes, which seem to not be popular with the general public - in the UK we had similar comments made about Kate McCann and Joanne Lees who also both had pale eyes

Perhaps a good eyebrow shape and some softening highlights would be the best thing Amanda could do to prove her innocence, which is a bit tragic really

It's all such nonsense though and it is impossible to tell what people are like from photos and video clips - some good people are just awkward in public and will never be loved outside of their close circle of friends and family. Some totally horrible people have the likability factor and people will love them regardless of their awful actions. I said this before but Jim Davidson (sexist, racist, wife beating comedian) just won Big Brother in the UK, which says it all for how terrible we are at judging someone's personality from the TV

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I'm just giving you an honest observation as how her eyes look to me. I have seen pictures of her where the shadows around her eyes are pretty much gone, and in most of those pictures, I can see what you see.

Personally, I don't think she should change anything. That's who she is and as long as she's comfortable with it, she shouldn't change just so the PGP camp might like her more. If that's the first thing on their secret list why they think she's guilty, screw them. They ain't gonna change just because she looks different. It ain't worth the time or money to appease those stupid people,

d

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[Kestrel]

Another visit on an old post. . . .What
Wouldn't in the US, the case be thrown out just for that?

In the US, it would be grounds for a mistrial and perhaps criminal charges against the prosecutor.

Italy does put some limits on eves dropping by prosecutors. Mignini was convicted of abuse of office for wiretapping dozens of Italian officials while perusing a bizarre conspiracy theory regarding the Monster of Florence case. (A real gem involving a Masonic lodge holding Satanic rituals with human body parts and a massive coverup by the Italian secret police. ) That verdict was later overturned on a technicality when the appeals court ruled that the original court did not have jurisdiction.

 

[anglolawyer]

Personally, I have a bright line rule for this one: police don't get to hit suspects. I'll bet that's what the law says, too.

If hitting her didn't matter, why did they all deny doing it?

 

[Kaosium]

Caper,

In the fall of 2011 (right before or right after the acquittal) Patrick complained that Amanda never apologized to him in person. This strongly implies two things. One is that Patrick never visited Amanda in Capanne. Two is something that each reader of this comment will have to figure out for himself or herself owing to the constraints imposed by the membership agreement.

At the outset of her appeal, in early winter of 2010, Amanda gave a statement (this is the one Maresca walked out on) which included another apology to Patrick, who was present in court. She'd apologized in court before, but apparently he wasn't there in court at the time, so he'd spent his time between her conviction and the appeal going to media saying how wronged he was and how evil she was and that she'd not apologized in person.

After that appearance when Amanda was dragged back to Capanne and Patrick had another chance to talk to the press he told them that he couldn't accept her apology. He claimed he'd forgiven her, but he was nonplussed by her apology in court because he felt she couldn't mean it, she was so cold and evil inside or somesuch. His lawyer, Pacelli, spent his time in that appeals court putting it in even stronger terms.

 

[AmyStrange]

Ever? Never?

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Originally Posted by Skype chat:
Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:19PM) I was in the bathroom when it happened. I tried to stop it but I couldn't do anything. Amanda had nothing to do with it.

jack says: (7:11:19PM) You have to tell me who was there.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:31PM) Because I fought with a male.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:11:36PM) And she wasn't there.

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So, he never said Amanda was there? Ever? Never?

d

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[Rolfe]

I'm just giving you an honest observation as how her eyes look to me. I have seen pictures of her where the shadows around her eyes are pretty much gone, and in most of those pictures, I can see what you see.

Personally, I don't think she should change anything. That's who she is and as long as she's comfortable with it, she shouldn't change just so the PGP camp might like her more. If that's the first thing on their secret list why they think she's guilty, screw them. They ain't gonna change just because she looks different. It ain't worth the time or money to appease those stupid people,

I know what Dave means, because I was watching that interview with her at the time the latest verdict was announced, and there as a moment when she seemed to look very sinister indeed. It was only a moment though, and it's a completely meaningless observation. The more so in that it is an observation of a young woman who has been through a living hell for over six years.

Rolfe.

 

[Diocletus]

If hitting her didn't matter, why did they all deny doing it?

When did they deny it? Right after she wrote her note on 6 November 2007? Or, did they wait for months/years to make their denial?

When were the complete contents of the 6 November 2007 note released to the public, such that we would expect the police to have publicly disavowed "hitting" Knox?

Why didn't the cops charge Knox with defamation as soon as she wrote her note, instead of waiting for her to testify that they hit her?

 

[Diocletus]

If hitting her didn't matter, why did they all deny doing it?

Agreed. Why didn't they just say: "we cuffed her about the head until she said what we already knew to be true . . . caso chiuso."

 

[Kaosium]

When did they deny it? Right after she wrote her note on 6 November 2007? Or, did they wait for months/years to make their denial?

When were the complete contents of the 6 November 2007 note released to the public, such that we would expect the police to have publicly disavowed "hitting" Knox?

Why didn't the cops charge Knox with defamation as soon as she wrote her note, instead of waiting for her to testify that they hit her?

The note was definitely available to the public by November 22nd, 2007 as it ran in the Telegraph.

 

[AmyStrange]

First address the pooch, hi pooch...

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I hope the fact that the idea of 2 young lovers randomly hooking up with an African drifter to brutally rape and murder someone.... and how ridiculous that premise sounds.... Is one of those other things.

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Yes, I've addressed this many times.

The chances of three like-minded psychologically-ready to kill people meeting at random like that and actually agreeing to kill someone and then for over six years never say anything about this while even taking the chance of going to jail for it, well, it's pretty improbable, especially in less than 30 minutes, but that's just my opinion

d

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[Grinder]

If hitting her didn't matter, why did they all deny doing it?

Right. But, it is also interesting that not all of them sued. Why would some of them not sue as I'm sure Maresca was giving them the Costco Kercher discount.