Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

put in jimmy a door or lock into google and read the results or go read a dictionary.

Well guess you didn't want this dropped

She's not even two and is already locking me out - Rurally Screwed
www.rurallyscrewed.com/10328/2012/01/16/locked-out-by-a-baby/‎
Jan 16, 2012 - Within two minutes, Gerald had jimmied the door open with his tools without breaking or damaging the door one iota. I'll admit, while he worked ...
jimmy open by crowbar - WordReference Forums
forum.wordreference.com › English Only › English Only‎
Jul 20, 2011 - 16 posts - ‎8 authors
There are threads dealing with similar queries, but I couldn't figure this out by reading them. You'd say: I jimmied the door open with a crowbar.
Once someone manually jimmied the door open, I - InvestorsHub
investorshub.advfn.com › ... › Cars, etc. (GEARHEAD)‎
ADVFN
Dec 12, 2005 - Once someone manually jimmied the door open, I simply had to start the truck. He tried, as I had, hitting the unlock button from inside, to no ...
Mysteerie Manor II: The House That Keeps on Giving
books.google.com/books?isbn=1462018556
Sharon Hays - 2011 - ‎Fiction
Maryanne scooted back, with a hint of hesitation. He took a screwdriver fromhis belt and jimmied the door open. He was thinking: 'It seemed anxious to let them ...
Urban Dictionary: jimmy
nl.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jimmy&page=3‎
1. To pry something open with or as if with a jimmy. This crate is nailed tight, hand me the jimmy so I can pry it open. He jimmied the door open with a crowbar.
Read Elite (Eagle Elite) - By Rachel Van Dyken Page 0%252C0,4 ...
www.goreads.me/elite-eagle-elite-rachel-van-dyken?page=0%252C0,4‎
Blowing the hair out of my face, I jimmied the door open to the stairs and made my very slow ascent to the third floor. By the time I reached the third floor door I ...
Crabface - Erin Pavlina

www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2012/04/crabface/‎
by Erin Pavlina - in 774 Google+ circles
He jimmied the door open with some kind of tool and then hacked away at the bookcase until he had cleared a path for us. As far as I was concerned, Superman ...
Wolven #2: The Twilight Circus - Page 83 - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0545388368
Di Toft - 2011 - ‎Juvenile Fiction
Just before dusk, Saffi released the hinges and jimmied the door open with her ruined boot. A really bad moment followed her initial triumph. She found her legs ...
The Last Testament Page 0,78 Read Online - Read The Last ...
www.mbreader.me/last-testament?page=0,78‎
He gave the nod to Marwan, who produced a wire and jimmied the door open. They slipped in, Ziad looking back to make sure no one had seen the movement ...
Leaves of Glass: day 27.
katerimorton.blogspot.com/2013/11/day-27.html‎
Nov 9, 2013 - So I jimmied the door open, and let myself in and wandered around in the midday dim. I sat on the floor cushions in the children's section, right ...​

results of "jimmied the door open"

 

[Dan O.]

Can we at least get back to the sleep issue? This has been the problem all along. Throwing mud hoping some will stick.

Have you read her lawyers summation from the Massei trial? He quotes a statement from one witness at the station after she was questioned on the 4th:

So is speaking of 4 November, and reports that it was in fact Amanda was heard at around 3:00 in the offices of the squad so we are in the afternoon of Sunday, "then we're done and she was ushered into a waiting room and at one point I moved away and came back in this room and at that point I realized that this girl was really tested, exhausted, she was tired because practically I found, was leaning on the chair with his head tilted toward the wall in white face with eyes closed , white, have been greatly affected by this pale and I realized that this girl was sick "

"precisely that in addition to pallor of the face and neck I've seen ... I realized that the girl was bad, I approached and asked << Amanda how are you? Are you okay? >> And at that point she was a bit 'recovery and should be reconstructed even in the position, posture and told me: << yes I did not sleep, did not eat, this morning I also came menstruation and >> are exhausted.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

We are not saying who, but you can tell

Yes, I fully understand that's what is being said NOW but I'm not aware this was ever raised at the time. It beggars belief that her lawyers wouldn't have raised this in court, or that Knox herself wouldn't have mentioned it to relatives or other visitors in Capanne (this included US Embassy officials I understand). As far as I'm aware no such complaint was made. I'll be happy to be corrected if this isn't the case.

Super,

Your argument cuts no ice. Ms. Knox made it clear that she was coerced as early as her first memoriaele of 6 November. When one's defense is that one was coerced and cuffed and when oneself and one's parents are hit with suits for doing so, it cramps one's legal style, shall we say. Given the fact (link given recently upthread) that one the the lawyers sidestepped saying outright that the police had overwritten meta-data on Sollecito's computer, when they were the only ones with access to it on the morning of 6 November, speaks volumes about the understandable reluctance to criticize the police. The 2007 Amnesty International report on Italy alludes to this problem indirectly.

 

[Caper]

Super,

Your argument cuts no ice. Ms. Knox made it clear that she was coerced as early as her first memoriaele of 6 November. When one's defense is that one was coerced and cuffed and when oneself and one's parents are hit with suits for doing so, it cramps one's legal style, shall we say. Given the fact (link given recently upthread) that one the the lawyers sidestepped saying outright that the police had overwritten meta-data on Sollecito's computer, when they were the only ones with access to it on the morning of 6 November, speaks volumes about the understandable reluctance to criticize the police. The 2007 Amnesty International report alludes to this problem indirectly.

Could somebody elaborate on this?

 

[Diocletus]

Yes, I fully understand that's what is being said NOW but I'm not aware this was ever raised at the time. It beggars belief that her lawyers wouldn't have raised this in court, or that Knox herself wouldn't have mentioned it to relatives or other visitors in Capanne (this included US Embassy officials I understand). As far as I'm aware no such complaint was made. I'll be happy to be corrected if this isn't the case.

Her gift statement written on the morning of the 6th, immediately after the interrogation, states that the police hit her. Does a prisoner in Italy have a legal obligation to file some kind of special "complaint" before the police will investigate allegations that they mistreated a prisoner? If so, it doesn't matter, because the ECtHR does not have such a requirement.

What the ECtHR is interested in, if you review opinions having to do with police mistreatment of prisoners, is whether there is objective evidence of the mistreatment and an effective investigation of the alleged mistreatment. Typically, human rights violations are found in those cases in which the court has failed or refused to investigate.

And, don't forget--although Hellman convicted Knox of callunnia and his opinion was upheld on appeal--he made some very heavy findings about the interrogation and its effect on Knox.

So, we have a contemporaneous, against-interest statement by Knox that she was struck, findings by the convicting court that she was placed in a situation of severe psychological pressure, a number of objective facts that render the interrogation suspect (no lawyer, young foreigner, time of interrogation, screaming, interpreter, etc.), and virtually no investigation by the country. Pretty strong case IMHO.

 

[Dan O.]

Regardless of any appeal that might be pending with the ECHR (and frankly I think they will toss it out as being beneath consideration - but I could be wrong) her plain duty is to have paid Lumumba until such time as the court award is made null and void (i.e. likely never). As I've said, failure to do so just makes any weasel-worded apology from Knox absolutely meaningless.

And if she had paid you would be here claiming the it was proof that she was guilty because an innocent person would not have paid.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

Super,

...Ms. Knox made it clear that she was coerced as early as her first memoriaele of 6 November...

Where precisely can I find this documented please? All I can find is a transcript of Amanda Knox's handwritten statement to police on the evening of November 6 where she writes "...Please don't yell at me..." (I imagine police world-wide do that, and I certainly wouldn't blame them if they suspect someone is being less than straightforward).

 

[Desert Fox]

Well let's not get into shoulds and shouldn'ts - a court of law DID IN FACT award damages and if Knox had any integrity she would have paid Lumumba (from her book advance for example, before settling any other debts). Mercifully we haven't reached the stage yet where defendants can choose which court awards they can happily ignore.

Maybe that book money should go towards this unending battle to clear her name? Maybe get her through college as well?

 

[Kestrel]

Have you read her lawyers summation from the Massei trial? He quotes a statement from one witness at the station after she was questioned on the 4th:

This was the same day that the PM took the girls to the cottage and discussed the knives. Did they let Amanda go at 3 pm, or did the trip to the cottage happen after that time?

 

[lane99]

Fit like a glove, did it, John?

What he wrote in 1997, in Journey into Darkness:...[/i]one of the subjects they had interviewed fit my profile almost exactly.[/I]...

As I said, John Douglas claims his profile fit Morin like a glove, even though, as you took pains to demonstrate, it doesn't.

Douglas is a phony.

...The cops misled everyone about the quality of their case against Morin...

Figured that out, huh? And Douglas was one of the cops doing it. But when it came time to man up about his role in the fiasco, rather than appear at the inquiry, he hide under his bed.
.
.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

memories of Stardust

Could somebody elaborate on this?

Andrea Vogt wrote about it, although her article has the wrong title. So did Frank Sfarzo.

 

[Diocletus]

Where precisely can I find this documented please? All I can find is a transcript of Amanda Knox's handwritten statement to police on the evening of November 6 where she writes "...Please don't yell at me..." (I imagine police world-wide do that, and I certainly wouldn't blame them if they suspect someone is being less than straightforward).

Re-read the transcript, and find this:

"but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly"

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes, I fully understand that's what is being said NOW but I'm not aware this was ever raised at the time. It beggars belief that her lawyers wouldn't have raised this in court, or that Knox herself wouldn't have mentioned it to relatives or other visitors in Capanne (this included US Embassy officials I understand). As far as I'm aware no such complaint was made. I'll be happy to be corrected if this isn't the case.

Patrick claims to be beaten. . . .Do you think they were sweet and nice to her?
I am trying too finish reading the back posts on this threads. Every indication is that they wore her down. Her answer was not really even "He was there" but "maybe he was there."

The later victims of the Norfolk PD with the Norfolk Four don't seem to blame those who implicated them.

Another example of horrid lawyers. At least in one case, if the lawyer had asked his petty officer, could have shown he could not be there. That would have been a hell of a bombshell.

 

[Bill Williams]

As I said, John Douglas claims his profile fit Morin like a glove, even though, as you took pains to demonstrate, it doesn't.

Douglas is a phony.



Figured that out, huh? And Douglas was one of the cops doing it. But when it came time to man up about his role in the fiasco, rather than appear at the inquiry, he hide under his bed.
.
.

This is confirmation bias, even if John Douglas was wrong about Morin.... which he obviously was.

The bias is not really about Knox. There is a trend among guilters to attack anyone who sifts through evidence and concludes that Knox and Sollecito are innocent.

Are you saying that Knox and Sollecito have a psychopathology that Douglas missed? Apparently even the convicting judges missed it, too.

 

[Bob001]

This case points out that there is a need for foreign students studying in Italy and elsewhere, and all travelers for that matter, to have immediate access to a local attorney who is fully capable of handling the preliminary aspects of a criminal matter and accident, and who speaks English.

Just as there is health insurance and travel insurance, there should be some sort of legal insurance that a student or other traveler purchases. Everyone traveling abroad should carry a wallet card in the local language and in their language which they present to the police which invokes their legal rights and protections, provides a 24 hour local legal number, and immediate phone access to a lawyer. The presentation of the card should stop all police questioning until the lawyer is present.

$10 or $20 per month might cover the service. Universities should insist their students have it when studying abroad.

That's an interesting idea. As a practical matter, it might be hard to provide site-specific, language-specific cards, especially for someone who is traveling widely. But I could imagine a U.S.-based office that would maintain current lists of local lawyers and interpreters around the world (the ones compiled by embassies and consulates would be a good starting point), and would provide an international phone number. A subscriber in trouble would call the number for local referrals, just as every credit card and travel insurance company has one phone number that can be called from anywhere in the world. The service could even make the first call to a lawyer: "Your new client is Jane Smith. She's being held at precinct No. 14." Subscribers might get a card printed in half-a-dozen languages that would say something like "I am an American citizen. I assert all rights available to me under law. I decline to answer questions without counsel present. Please notify the U.S. embassy."

You could also include the emergency international contact number for the State Department. And of course, the lawyers and interpreters could be listed on a members-only website. It basically would work a lot like travel insurance that provides medical referrals in emergencies. Maybe the first consultation would be free, and for an extra fee, the service might even include a bail guarantee up to a certain amount, just as the AAA card can be used as a bond guarantee for some traffic offenses.

It sounds like there's a real opportunity here, especially for someone who is already in the travel business.

 

[Dan O.]

The Federation of James Randy Enterprises (JREF) has a Million Dollar carrot to attract the best psychic lie detectors. Several successfully recruits volunteer their time here to moderate this board. Egregious lying can result in suspensions as it is painful to the moderators delicate psyches.


BTW, Welcome new posters.

 

[Grinder]

Super,

Your argument cuts no ice. Ms. Knox made it clear that she was coerced as early as her first memoriaele of 6 November. When one's defense is that one was coerced and cuffed and when oneself and one's parents are hit with suits for doing so, it cramps one's legal style, shall we say. Given the fact (link given recently upthread) that one the the lawyers sidestepped saying outright that the police had overwritten meta-data on Sollecito's computer, when they were the only ones with access to it on the morning of 6 November, speaks volumes about the understandable reluctance to criticize the police. The 2007 Amnesty International report on Italy alludes to this problem indirectly.

Has the last note mignini quoted from ever been made public?

I believe it is this one: Memoriale II: Retracting acquiescence to the interrogation depositions of 06 Nov 2007. Deposited 07 Nov 2007.
as listed on Amanda's site but there is no link.

from what I've seen the last one really is the most clear.

It must be remembered that Amanda HAD NO IDEA THAT THE INTERROGATION WAS NOT RECORDED. If she were the slick killer with everything planned out she would have not said things in the note that could be contradicted by the recording. If she were innocent she wouldn't worry whether it was recorded or not.

Just imagine she made up all the yelling and slapping and the PLE produced a video with tea and cakes and a helpful supportive translator.

 

[Kestrel]

Patrick claims to be beaten. . . .Do you think they were sweet and nice to her?
I am trying too finish reading the back posts on this threads. Every indication is that they wore her down. Her answer was not really even "He was there" but "maybe he was there."

The later victims of the Norfolk PD with the Norfolk Four don't seem to blame those who implicated them.

Another example of horrid lawyers. At least in one case, if the lawyer had asked his petty officer, could have shown he could not be there. That would have been a hell of a bombshell.

It's an open secret that Italian police rough up suspects during interrogations. It is also considered a serious crime to claim that the police abuse suspects. In effect, this gives the police a rather free hand. All they need to do is avoid recording the interrogation and it becomes the word of the police against a suspected criminal. We all understand which side the courts will take in that event.

Amanda was charged with a crime for daring to say the police slapped her. Her parents were charged with a crime for daring to repeat that story, as were several Italian journalists.

There have been cases where the Italian police got carried away and beat a suspect to death during interrogation. These are about the only cases where officers end up facing charges for abuse.

 

[Grinder]

And if she had paid you would be here claiming the it was proof that she was guilty because an innocent person would not have paid.

Well of course

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

Re-read the transcript, and find this:

"but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly"

O.K got it - and it's immediately followed by "I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received". Not what you might call traumatic then. Don't misunderstand though, I don't condone it . Anyway let's agree with Knox here, the police have a job to do and they need to find the murderer pronto - and if Knox can "understand" it the "hit" wouldn't exactly have amounted to grievous bodily harm imo.

Anyway thanks for the reference.