Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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lionking said:
What makes a priest's opinion more relevant that any other person in the street? He heard her confession. Big deal.

Quoting a priest as an authority isn't going to go down well in this forum.
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Interesting. I wonder if you were asked whose opinion you would think is more reliable, a priest or a man who claims to be God, who you would choose?
 
HotNostril said:
Every square inch wasn't tested.

I believe RS left a trace on that clasp.

Why is there no trace of Rudy in the room he allegedly entered into? None on the window sill or frame.
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As quoted in Rudy's final SC ruling, Rudy admitted going into Filomena's room and even leaning out the window there. He also admitted being in both bathrooms and the murder room. I am curious why you think he would place himself in these locations in the cottage if he was not in those locations? His story is that he had a date with Meredith and someone came in and killed her while he was sitting on the toilet. How inconvenient for him.
 
reality versus fiction

lionking said:
What makes a priest's opinion more relevant that any other person in the street? He heard her confession. Big deal.

Quoting a priest as an authority isn't going to go down well in this forum.
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Lionking,

He spent time with her over several years, but the average man in the street did not. "Foxy Knoxy" doesn't exist; just ask the people who know her.
 
HotNostril said:
I don't believe her. It's not that I have blind faith in police. It's because I do not find her credible.
Liars lie.

The cops and prosecutor in this case are the lying liars, not Amanda. In any case, I would have to find evidence of someone's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in order to convict. The evidence is not there in this case.

RS created an elaborate lie, in a letter, to his father ..putting Meredith's blood on that knife.

There was no blood found on the knife. The RIS, in front of Hellmann said this DNA result Stefi found needs to be repeatable to be credible. That did not happen. The result she reported is worthless.

He stated Amanda convinced him of putting forth a load of rubbish..only to flip flop again later.

Yes, he said in front of Matteini that the load of rubbish he told the cops was a load of rubbish. Amanda was with him the whole night. Let me ask you if you believe his first load of rubbish, that he stayed home and Amanda went out? The cops didn't.
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My comments bolded.
 
HotNostril said:
I am not a guy.

It doesn't make sense to me that she would basically move in with a guy she had just met. But that's just me.

I don't believe it was a premeditated murder.
The only scenario I come up with is it was to be a Halloween prank. Perhaps they ran into Rudy on the way.
Men do some stupid things in hopes of "getting some"
and the downstairs guys stated Rudy was interested in Amanda.

I don't like to speculate on motive. It's not required here in the US. And considering murder hardly ever makes any sort of sense to me..and I have no idea what goes on in a murderers head...

I am typically comfortable without a clear concise logical motive.

People tend to kill for jealously, greed, revenge, thrill or to cover up another crime...that's my understanding anyway.
Why people chose to kill their spouse as opposed to simply getting divorced, or kill their own children ..I will never be able to wrap my head around.
And when people somehow convince others to help them, it makes it all the more baffling to me.
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So, you don't know how it happened or why it happened. You just believe she is guilty. That is a pretty low standard to put somebody away for 25 to 30 years for. The Italian justice system has a similar problem.
 
some time on the links would be a good thing

HotNostril said:
Except...it was not a confession, it was a false allegation against a man she knew was innocent and lies. Very common, run of the mill, deflection tactic made by guilty suspects all the time.
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Hot Nostril,
We have discussed this point many times in these threads; it came up just a few days ago, but you seem to have only a rough idea about false confessions/accusations. I suggest that, rather than puttering around and taking swings at people one doesn't know, a fairway to proceed is to read up the Norfolk Four, the Central Park Five, and Karl Fontenot. That way one will not be so green. Links to these cases have been given recently.
 
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HotNostril said:
Why is there no trace of Rudy in the room he allegedly entered into? None on the window sill or frame.
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Something I have commented on before is how flimsy some particular pro-guilt arguments are. Not all are like this, of course, but some pro-guilt arguments are so feeble that one would think that given even a moment's brief reflection any reasonably intelligent person could see the problem with them.

In this case, have you heard of things called "gloves"? They go over your hands. You can put them on, and take them off. Criminals have, on occasion, employed them to try to reduce the risk of leaving fingerprints or DNA at a crime scene.

So how on Earth could Rudy Guede, someone with a history of being linked to burglaries, possibly get into a room without leaving DNA on the window sill or frame? Well, me might have had gloves. It's possible.

So the question becomes, which is more unlikely? A once-in-history three-way murder pact where two of the three magically leave no trace, and their computer magically does stuff all night without them, or a burglar wearing gloves?

Really, this isn't something we should need to explain. It's like Machiavelli's bafflement over evidence that could be explained either by a magical DNA cleanup by Amanda, or by Rudy Guede washing his hands.

If everyday things like gloves or washing your hands present the ILE with impossible conundrums, I can see why they struggle to solve crimes effectively.
 
katy_did said:
It could be that the print on the pillow is linked to the one on the wall above the bed: Guede puts his hand on the wall for balance and then down onto the pillow which would've been at the head of the bed at that stage. Followed by a struggle in that area of the room, during which the things on the bed fall onto the floor. This would have to be after the first stab wound, but obviously before the fatal one. I think the bruises on Meredith's legs were determined to be older ones, incidentally (i.e. presumably from before the attack).

I think it's very hard to draw any firm conclusions about exactly when he left the print on the pillow, regardless of what it looks like - strange there's no clear picture of it available, though.
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I think you also missed the discussion on this. I think Rudy right hand on the wall and left hand on the pillow works. In the photos we determined after they moved the body they also rotated the pillow, what appears to be on the left is on the right and on the top is on the bottom (from doorway to wall perspective). It still amazes me how often things move around in these pictures, it is almost like they don't care if they are showing things the way they were before they disturbed the crime scene. It also amazes me that they are not able to figure out whose hand made that print on the wall. It looks like a pretty decent impression to me (photo attached).
 

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RoseMontague said:
I am glad you continue to comment but disappointed you continue to avoid discussing the evidence in this case.
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It's like going on one of the science threads here and pontificating about evolution or atoms or something without having a clue what you are talking about. Somehow, the casual posters who show up here with decided and unchangeable (and mostly ridiculous) opinions can't grasp the stupidity of their position.

When do we get hotnostril's time line? Or Lionking's?
 
Use of tweezers.jpg
RoseMontague said:
It also amazes me that they are not able to figure out whose hand made that print on the wall. It looks like a pretty decent impression to me (photo attached).
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The blood is clearly too thick and combined with the rough wall surface and sliding motion, there is not likely to be any detail sufficient to match fingerprints. But what should be abundant here due to the rough surface and the sliding motion is the skin cells left behind by the artist.

In the December 18 visit they took both a rubbing and scrapings from this print. How could they not possibly have gotten a DNA result?

They spent as much time and attention on the collection of this sample as they did with the bra clasp. If they intended to bolster evidence against one of the suspects they may have changed their minds when they realized that Rudy Guede was claiming authorship for the writing on the wall. This would have looked really bad for the forensics team if the sample came up with a mixed profile that wasn't Rudy-Meredith.

Are the DNA results for sample W available or are they also lost in that garage?


ETA: Photo attached showing proper use of tweezers in collecting evidence. (ignore the fact that the swab was dropped to the floor, picked up and used to continue swabbing after this shot)

ETTA: Attached clip from previous photo with different label (what's up with that?) (And who is this inside the crime room on November 2nd not wearing a white bunny suit?!)
 

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RoseMontague said:
I think you also missed the discussion on this. I think Rudy right hand on the wall and left hand on the pillow works. In the photos we determined after they moved the body they also rotated the pillow, what appears to be on the left is on the right and on the top is on the bottom (from doorway to wall perspective). It still amazes me how often things move around in these pictures, it is almost like they don't care if they are showing things the way they were before they disturbed the crime scene. It also amazes me that they are not able to figure out whose hand made that print on the wall. It looks like a pretty decent impression to me (photo attached).
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I have thought the print on the wall looked like it was from a left hand due to placement of the fingers.

Which hand was the print on the pillowcase from?
 
another example of a false accusation/confession

"Imagine more than two decades in a maximum security prison. Add to that the fact that you're accused of killing your mother, your sister and your cousin. As if that's not enough, you were the one who discovered their lifeless, bloodied bodies when you opened the door to your home one night....At least one false confession detectives coerced out of a scared teenage boy over 20 years ago led to the convictions." And this:
"'I was scared, afraid; I was lied to, manipulated into believing that I was going to go home, if I do tell ... what they said happened.'" Wilson said. Faced with a life behind bars, the young boy cooperated for the promise of lighter treatment."link.
 
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HotNostril said:
I think she was more than happy to volunteer up her false accusations. I don't believe she was hit or tortured.

It's my opinion she believed she was smarter than everyone else and the bare bones of the story she concocted with RS would hold up. She was wrong. Their story rapidly unraveled under ordinary police interrogations.

She was not a stupid young woman but... like many before her...she overestimated her intelligence and ability to manipulate.
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That's it, isn't it: you "think" this; you "don't believe" that; it's your "opinion". It's all articles of faith without any evidence or facts to support it. How about a few details of how the crime went down?

  • what time in the evening or night was Meredith killed?
  • what time did Knox and Sollecito allegedly go over to the house (having been seen by an independent witness at his flat at 8:40pm)?
  • how did they allegedly meet up with Guede?
  • what was it that led to the confrontation with Meredith?
  • what time did each of the 3 alleged attackers depart from the house?
  • how did Knox and/or Sollecito and/or Guede allegedly go about the clean-up and staging of the break-in?

You must be aware that the various prosecutors, convicting judges and anti-Knox campaigners either can't answer the above questions or give completely different answers. Isn't it reasonable to conclude that Knox and Sollecito have been convicted of a crime with no facts to support it?
 
Dan O. said:
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The blood is clearly too thick and combined with the rough wall surface and sliding motion, there is not likely to be any detail sufficient to match fingerprints. But what should be abundant here due to the rough surface and the sliding motion is the skin cells left behind by the artist.

In the December 18 visit they took both a rubbing and scrapings from this print. How could they not possibly have gotten a DNA result?

They spent as much time and attention on the collection of this sample as they did with the bra clasp. If they intended to bolster evidence against one of the suspects they may have changed their minds when they realized that Rudy Guede was claiming authorship for the writing on the wall. This would have looked really bad for the forensics team if the sample came up with a mixed profile that wasn't Rudy-Meredith.

Are the DNA results for sample W available or are they also lost in that garage?


ETA: Photo attached showing proper use of tweezers in collecting evidence. (ignore the fact that the swab was dropped to the floor, picked up and used to continue swabbing after this shot)

ETTA: Attached clip from previous photo with different label (what's up with that?) (And who is this inside the crime room on November 2nd not wearing a white bunny suit?!)
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There are two visits/results - first time (11/2) yielded only Meredith's DNA, the second visit (12/18) I think didn't yield any results despite the rubbing and scraping.
 
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