Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Charlie Wilkes said:
The "evidence" has never mattered to these judges. They accept it or wave it away as they see fit, without any concern for its real value or its relevance to the crime.

The public is focused on Amanda. The reputation of the Italian court system hinges on the accusation against her. If they could get Raffaele to implicate her, the Italian mob would buy it in a heartbeat, no matter what contortions are required. The Italian mob is who supports the prosecution and the courts in this farce of a case.
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That's because they really don't have freedom of the press in Italy Charlie. With few exceptions the vast majority of people only know what has been fed to them by a media forced through coercion to write nonsense.

Their callunia laws result in a press that kowtows to the authorities.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
You're right, they don't care about him, but you have worked it backward in terms of the pressure tactic they are using. They aren't trying to break her. They are trying to break him, so he will incriminate her to keep himself out of jail.

"She went out that night. I stayed home with my computer."

That was the whole point of Nencini's interview: Raffaele could have saved himself.
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Charlie - you may be right. I never really envisioned Mr. Honor Bound cracking under the pressure; after all, he spent 4 years of his life in jail already for a girl he barely knew. I had really envisioned that he really does not know that much and even if he states that Amanda left in the middle of the night by herself and knows nothing of what happened that night, it still does not implicate Amanda. Even if he cracks under the pressure and Amanda's extradition is in limbo, I say he is still going to jail until Amanda breaks. So he tells the Italians that Amanda left in the middle of the night; under the pressure of facing jail time, this may look like a last ditch desperate attempt and Amanda will just deny the accusations. With Raffaele physically in jail, the Italians are thinking that Amanda will crack under the pressure of putting her innocent ex in jail for 25 years. Being free while your innocent friend is rotting in jail could be the last psychological straw for her. Anyway, this is just my view on what the Italians are thinking - I would not underestimate the lengths they will go to to get what they want.
 
lamasheen said:
Charlie - you may be right. I never really envisioned Mr. Honor Bound cracking under the pressure; after all, he spent 4 years of his life in jail already for a girl he barely knew. I had really envisioned that he really does not know that much and even if he states that Amanda left in the middle of the night by herself and knows nothing of what happened that night, it still does not implicate Amanda. Even if he cracks under the pressure and Amanda's extradition is in limbo, I say he is still going to jail until Amanda breaks. So he tells the Italians that Amanda left in the middle of the night; under the pressure of facing jail time, this may look like a last ditch desperate attempt and Amanda will just deny the accusations. With Raffaele physically in jail, the Italians are thinking that Amanda will crack under the pressure of putting her innocent ex in jail for 25 years. Being free while your innocent friend is rotting in jail could be the last psychological straw for her. Anyway, this is just my view on what the Italians are thinking - I would not underestimate the lengths they will go to to get what they want.
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You may be right, but you have to wonder why they want Amanda so badly. The physical evidence implicating Amanda is even more tenuous than Raffaele. There is NO evidence of Amanda in Meredith's bedroom. NONE. No DNA, NO fingerprints, nothing. And even if there were either of these things, they would hardly be incriminating given that Amanda lives in the room next door.

Accordingly they supposedly have Raffaele's DNA on Meredith's bra clasp. Never mind that there is evidence of 4 other Men on that bra clasp and it was collected under some very bizarre circumstances. But there is nothing of Amanda. They have one of the weakest confessions in history and NO physical evidence.

But Amanda is the luciferina. The she devil from America. It just goes to show just how deep the misogyny runs through Italy.
 
Vibio said:
Cheap and simple and used everywhere?

Wrong.

NY and this 2013 not 2007: http://www.columbiapaper.com/index.php/police-blotter/3832-by-staff
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The state will provide nearly $700,000 in grants so local law enforcement agencies can either purchase equipment for the first time or upgrade existing systems that allow them to video record interrogations, Governor Andrew M. Cuomo announced in a press release last week.

What is unclear about this article is just how many jurisdictions have video recording equipment to begin with. Is it significant? The article doesn't say. But this is only talking about "video recording". I'd be comfortable if they had even audio recording. The have regularly and routinely at least using sound recordings of interrogation since the 1960s.

There really is no excuse not to have at least that.
 
lamasheen said:
Charlie - you may be right. I never really envisioned Mr. Honor Bound cracking under the pressure; after all, he spent 4 years of his life in jail already for a girl he barely knew. I had really envisioned that he really does not know that much and even if he states that Amanda left in the middle of the night by herself and knows nothing of what happened that night, it still does not implicate Amanda. Even if he cracks under the pressure and Amanda's extradition is in limbo, I say he is still going to jail until Amanda breaks. So he tells the Italians that Amanda left in the middle of the night; under the pressure of facing jail time, this may look like a last ditch desperate attempt and Amanda will just deny the accusations. With Raffaele physically in jail, the Italians are thinking that Amanda will crack under the pressure of putting her innocent ex in jail for 25 years. Being free while your innocent friend is rotting in jail could be the last psychological straw for her. Anyway, this is just my view on what the Italians are thinking - I would not underestimate the lengths they will go to to get what they want.
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She will never "crack" because she did not in fact have anything to do with the murder.

A sizable chunk of the Italian and indeed the international public has demonstrated that they will believe anything the authorities tell them to prop up the claim that Amanda Knox is guilty, it doesn't matter how ridiculous. They will happily believe Raffaele if he says he has been covering for Amanda all these years.

In fact, they will be delighted. They will say, "aha! I knew all along she was guilty, and this proves it!"

I saw a short clip on Anderson Cooper's website tonight. Raffaele was asked if he blamed Amanda for this mess, and he was careful not to say "no," as he has in the past. Perhaps he is finally learning how to be a good Italian.
 
acbytesla said:
You may be right, but you have to wonder why they want Amanda so badly.
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Because they accused her in public and they end up looking stupid if they admit they were wrong.

I don't understand why people have so much trouble accepting that this is the sum total of what is going on in this case. There are so many precedents. I mentioned three of them above.
 
moodstream said:
I noticed that Doug M told Abrams he would send a list of errors to him via email. I don't know how that went. I tried to put my comments up, but I can't see them. I don't know much about twitter so I don't know if that's my own fault or if they have been removed.

Abrams offerred to correct any errors, but so far I see no corrections offerred, even on twitter he does not discuss it anymore. He has moved on. I would like to think he is a man of his word, but I have my doubts at this point.
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This thread is moving way too fast for me to keep up so I haven't read about the last six pages or so, but I am looking for an itemized rebuttal to Abrams piece. Has this been produced yet? Is there some effort to get one produced by the people participating in this thread? Earlier on, I saw a suggestion that one be initiated.
 
Machiavelli said:
Strozzi, you need to understand Italian collowquialism. Cabina di regia does not mean 'control room', it means director room or staff room or simply directorate or coordination activity.
Moreover, Giobbi states clearly that he did not witness Knox's 'confession', and that he was in the corridoor outside the door.
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Really? I work here in Italy and have worked with audio/visual technicians. They manage audio and video from "la cabina di regia" as they call it.
 
lamasheen said:
Charlie - you may be right. I never really envisioned Mr. Honor Bound cracking under the pressure; after all, he spent 4 years of his life in jail already for a girl he barely knew. I had really envisioned that he really does not know that much and even if he states that Amanda left in the middle of the night by herself and knows nothing of what happened that night, it still does not implicate Amanda. Even if he cracks under the pressure and Amanda's extradition is in limbo, I say he is still going to jail until Amanda breaks. So he tells the Italians that Amanda left in the middle of the night; under the pressure of facing jail time, this may look like a last ditch desperate attempt and Amanda will just deny the accusations. With Raffaele physically in jail, the Italians are thinking that Amanda will crack under the pressure of putting her innocent ex in jail for 25 years. Being free while your innocent friend is rotting in jail could be the last psychological straw for her. Anyway, this is just my view on what the Italians are thinking - I would not underestimate the lengths they will go to to get what they want.
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The logical problem is the physical evidence that implicates RS; i.e. the bra strap and the knife. Also AK and RS provide mutual alibis. It would blow the eye witness testimony from the base ball court which places the two together. So if RS changed his story and said AK was not with him that night, would the court accept Curatalo eye witness testimony was wrong, the bra evidence was innocent contamination? I suppose they could argue AK took the knife without RS knowing. This would be a difficult volte face and once prosecution accepted this they would be vulnerable to RS changing his mind again. So I do not think this is a realistic possibility. I do think that from RS point of view separate trials would have made sense, as I suspect he suffers from the anti-knox prejudice. Clearly an innocent verdict for one would make sustaining a guilty verdict against the other illogical. I note the predominant female membership of the court, women can be more judgemental of other women than men might be.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
She will never "crack" because she did not in fact have anything to do with the murder.

A sizable chunk of the Italian and indeed the international public has demonstrated that they will believe anything the authorities tell them to prop up the claim that Amanda Knox is guilty, it doesn't matter how ridiculous. They will happily believe Raffaele if he says he has been covering for Amanda all these years.

In fact, they will be delighted. They will say, "aha! I knew all along she was guilty, and this proves it!"

I saw a short clip on Anderson Cooper's website tonight. Raffaele was asked if he blamed Amanda for this mess, and he was careful not to say "no," as he has in the past. Perhaps he is finally learning how to be a good Italian.
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If what you say is true, Raffaele will be spending the next 25 years in jail - A tragedy indeed. Raffaele and Amanda's lawyers better find some new evidence that will exonerate them because without anything new, their last ditch appeal will never work, the Italians will never allow Rudy to talk, and injustice will have prevailed.
 
Planigale said:
The logical problem is the physical evidence that implicates RS; i.e. the bra strap and the knife. Also AK and RS provide mutual alibis. It would blow the eye witness testimony from the base ball court which places the two together. So if RS changed his story and said AK was not with him that night, would the court accept Curatalo eye witness testimony was wrong, the bra evidence was innocent contamination? I suppose they could argue AK took the knife without RS knowing. This would be a difficult volte face and once prosecution accepted this they would be vulnerable to RS changing his mind again. So I do not think this is a realistic possibility. I do think that from RS point of view separate trials would have made sense, as I suspect he suffers from the anti-knox prejudice. Clearly an innocent verdict for one would make sustaining a guilty verdict against the other illogical. I note the predominant female membership of the court, women can be more judgemental of other women than men might be.
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You are looking at this problem through a prism of fact and logic, so you miss what is driving the case forward at this point.

If they could get Raffaele to speak out against Amanda, it would demonstrate the power of the court system to bend people to their will. That power, the ability to crush people with impunity, is what earns respect in their world.

It would be a glorious victory for them and yes they would forget all about Curatolo, the bra fastener and the rest of their worthless "evidence." And so would the knuckle-dragging mob that cheers them on.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
She will never "crack" because she did not in fact have anything to do with the murder.

A sizable chunk of the Italian and indeed the international public has demonstrated that they will believe anything the authorities tell them to prop up the claim that Amanda Knox is guilty, it doesn't matter how ridiculous. They will happily believe Raffaele if he says he has been covering for Amanda all these years.

In fact, they will be delighted. They will say, "aha! I knew all along she was guilty, and this proves it!"

I saw a short clip on Anderson Cooper's website tonight. Raffaele was asked if he blamed Amanda for this mess, and he was careful not to say "no," as he has in the past. Perhaps he is finally learning how to be a good Italian.
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I was not too happy with his interview as he appears to further distance himself from Amanda. He mentioned he was prosecuted because of Amanda's "peculiar behavior". On the questioning part, my take is that he was saying that if Nencini wanted to question him, he would have testified in the latest appeal trial. If this thing ends up back at the second level it will not surprise me if he does so.
 
RoseMontague said:
I was not too happy with his interview as he appears to further distance himself from Amanda. He mentioned he was prosecuted because of Amanda's "peculiar behavior". On the questioning part, my take is that he was saying that if Nencini wanted to question him, he would have testified in the latest appeal trial. If this thing ends up back at the second level it will not surprise me if he does so.
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I hope he can stand up to them, but I won't blame him if he caves. What has his honor gotten him so far? The people who control his fate have no honor, and they are contemptuous of those who do.
 
Grinder said:
I was responding to Bill's 5 star rating of Moore's blog post. He seems to be saying that the PGP say the Supertanker paid him, which I don't believe to be the case. He also seems to imply that because he wasn't paid that the PR effort didn't exist and is just a fabrication of the PGP, which isn't the case. There was/is a PR effort and the linked articles go into it.
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that's a lie. The real PR Machine has been "The Machine" and "harryrag". And their fake wikipedia type site. The one they've sent to literally 1000's of Journalists. themurderofmeredithkercher.com sick. And their 3 hate cult sites, the 2 pmf's and the ridiculous True Justice for Meredith Kercher which is merely an excuse to obsess over Meredith AND Amanda. They're just a bunch of sad trolls, haters, people with no other options apparently, in their lives. and

It's sad that these are the type of people supporting the Kercher's. Do they even have any idea of how "out there" the people who support them are? There's one guy who literally claims to be God. Another guy who writes books about Assasin's and it's all a complete lie, he was in the band in the Army, and he's threatened Amanda and needs medical help. Another one who needs medical help is a Child Neurologist who thinks we outed him when in fact he outed himSELF when I merely went on FB, found out who his brother was and asked him to please have his brother stop harassing us. Because he was. It became obvious by his response that he's not even in touch with his family who demanded he stop. This is the one who tried to strangle his Psychologist and when pulled away went back to try to attack her again. He is still just as obsessed, but more behind the scenes (yeah, right) working away on their fake wikipedia type site. Then we have the guy who stalked a Ballerina trying to hook up with her and even admitting it in his (over 500) emails to her...and blackmailed her. These are the type of people who have encouraged this family in their thinking. And yes, still to this day they claim Steve Moore is a paid shill. You are very incorrect on this. And on any of this PR accusation.

The family of Meredith said (in almost every single interview) that they simply could not keep up with the PR Machine they were having to fight. Whaat? They were simply fighting truth, not some PR Machine. And meanwhile they were the one's with the real PR Machine. It's very sad to me. They're choosing their own pain.

Btw, the Italian's have all figured out they're innocent. Pretty much everyone has. The Journalists who accidentally thought that the nutter's fake wiki site was real, they've all come to the realization that they were had and are quite embarrassed I know this for a fact by some of them. Very embarrassed, and they should be. Shame on these quacks. They need to be sued by someone who has the emotional strength to have to be around them at all. Oh, then there's Peggy, who is so jealous and obsessed with the family and literally counts their shrubs and is more paranoid than anyone I know, and a jealous petty woman. Oh, and they're all very foul mouthed. So classy, these are the people who support Meredith's family. Well, I would love to be able to support the family. But they are wrongly victimizing the wrong people and I will fiercely defend this injustice to the end. Another words, the gloves are off on this end.
 
Strozzi said:
Machiavelli, do you have a cite for that? If so, I would like to see it. To convince me that Giobbi was not in the control room, you will have to demonstrate that for several hours repeat several hours Giobbi was pacing in the hall and did not enter the the control room.

I do have a cite for my statement that Giobbi was in the control room. Candace Dempsy wrote:
"Giobbi, the Rome detective, had remained in the control room with Profazio, the head of Perugia's Flying Squad. Giobbi was helping orchestrate the his-and-hers interrogation rooms, though he never stepped inside those rooms. He didn't need to, because the officers kept going back and forth. Everything that needed doing was being done."
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[2] (p191) T: i comportamenti li ho delineati, il signor Sollecito è stato diciamo a mio parere, perchè io non ho assistito, io come ho detto all’inizio, io ero una sorta di cabina di regia intermedia, cioè io e Profazio che erano quelli che conducevano di fatto le le indagine acquisivamo notizie dagli operatori e investigatori che materialmente stavano facendo i sit, però devo dire le urla di Amanda si sentono nel corridoio della Questura anche se la stanza è chiusa, il signor Sollecito non ha avuto lo stesso atteggiamento, un atteggiamento molto più signorile e pacato

[2] (p191) T: the behaviors I have outlined, Mr Sollecito was say in my opinion, because I have not seen, as I've said earlier, I was a kind of intermediate control room, that I Profazio and which were the ones that led to the investigation made ​​by the operators acquisivamo news and investigators who actually were doing the sit, but I have to say Amanda's screams heard in the hallway of the police station even if the room is closed, Mr Sollecito has not had the same attitude, a much more elegant and soft-spoken
 
michellesings said:
that's a lie. The real PR Machine has been "The Machine" and "harryrag". And their fake wikipedia type site. The one they've sent to literally 1000's of Journalists. themurderofmeredithkercher.com sick. And their 3 hate cult sites, the 2 pmf's and the ridiculous True Justice for Meredith Kercher which is merely an excuse to obsess over Meredith AND Amanda. They're just a bunch of sad trolls, haters, people with no other options apparently, in their lives. and

It's sad that these are the type of people supporting the Kercher's. Do they even have any idea of how "out there" the people who support them are? There's one guy who literally claims to be God. Another guy who writes books about Assasin's and it's all a complete lie, he was in the band in the Army, and he's threatened Amanda and needs medical help. Another one who needs medical help is a Child Neurologist who thinks we outed him when in fact he outed himSELF when I merely went on FB, found out who his brother was and asked him to please have his brother stop harassing us. Because he was. It became obvious by his response that he's not even in touch with his family who demanded he stop. This is the one who tried to strangle his Psychologist and when pulled away went back to try to attack her again. He is still just as obsessed, but more behind the scenes (yeah, right) working away on their fake wikipedia type site. Then we have the guy who stalked a Ballerina trying to hook up with her and even admitting it in his (over 500) emails to her...and blackmailed her. These are the type of people who have encouraged this family in their thinking. And yes, still to this day they claim Steve Moore is a paid shill. You are very incorrect on this. And on any of this PR accusation.

The family of Meredith said (in almost every single interview) that they simply could not keep up with the PR Machine they were having to fight. Whaat? They were simply fighting truth, not some PR Machine. And meanwhile they were the one's with the real PR Machine. It's very sad to me. They're choosing their own pain.

Btw, the Italian's have all figured out they're innocent. Pretty much everyone has. The Journalists who accidentally thought that the nutter's fake wiki site was real, they've all come to the realization that they were had and are quite embarrassed I know this for a fact by some of them. Very embarrassed, and they should be. Shame on these quacks. They need to be sued by someone who has the emotional strength to have to be around them at all. Oh, then there's Peggy, who is so jealous and obsessed with the family and literally counts their shrubs and is more paranoid than anyone I know, and a jealous petty woman. Oh, and they're all very foul mouthed. So classy, these are the people who support Meredith's family. Well, I would love to be able to support the family. But they are wrongly victimizing the wrong people and I will fiercely defend this injustice to the end. Another words, the gloves are off on this end.
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What Michelle said.
 
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