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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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stilicho said:
His new story is that he was already in Austria and recrossed the border after he found out they hadn't ordered preventive custody.

TCS is right, though. Sounds an awful lot like what a guilty person would do.
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I suggested he stay far, far away and I am certain he is innocent.
 
stilicho said:
His new story is that he was already in Austria and recrossed the border after he found out they hadn't ordered preventive custody.

TCS is right, though. Sounds an awful lot like what a guilty person would do.
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And an innocent person would go back to prison cheerfully? Or would you take that to mean he's acknowledging his "guilt?" That sounds a little like dunking a "witch": if she drowns, she's innocent; if not, she burns.
 
Bob001 said:
What is the basis for your contention that they "changed their alibis 9 times?" They have consistently stated that they spent the night of the murder together at Sollecito's house. But they have never said they went out anywhere.
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You're wrong.

From Raffies Diary, writing to his father:

"The judge questioned me today and he told me that I gave three different statements, but the only difference that I find is that I said that Amanda persuaded me to talk crap in the second version, and that she had gone out to go to the bar where she worked, Le Chic."

So Raffles admits that he changed his story. He admits that he said she had gone out. He admits that Knox told him to lie.
 
Here's the opinion piece I was talking about, from ABCNews -

Amanda Knox Found Guilty Again: Why the Court Could Be (Sort of) Right

One can understand those suspicions since both Sollecito's and Knox's accounts of where they were and what they did that night and morning changed many times, and some of that was not supported by objective evidence. In fact, Sollecito appears to have offered at least four different versions:

The "9 times" figure came from a comment on another site.
 
stilicho said:
His new story is that he was already in Austria and recrossed the border after he found out they hadn't ordered preventive custody.

TCS is right, though. Sounds an awful lot like what a guilty person would do.
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Didn't Rudy, the clearly guilty one, leave before being questioned and arrested? Isn't that what guilty people do, run away before being arrested?

Are you suggesting that innocent people that have been convicted, set free and re-convicted would not consider or perhaps even actually run away from injustice.

I in no way think he is a bright bulb and if I were him, I wouldn't have been in the same time zone as the court when they came in with the verdict.
 
tsig said:
The guilty verdict was on page A14 of my local paper so it must be a storm in a teacup.
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I sure enjoyed the coverage it got this morning on GMA, several stories, discussion, and a good interview with Amanda. Of course that's in National news, not your local newspaper.
 
Bob001 said:
And an innocent person would go back to prison cheerfully? Or would you take that to mean he's acknowledging his "guilt?" That sounds a little like dunking a "witch": if she drowns, she's innocent; if not, she burns.
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:D
 
pilot padron said:
Maybe I am missing something:confused:

After *full* legal process, just verdict and a reasonable sentence was rendered

Are you now suggesting that all law abiding citizens throughout the world should now rejoice with you about extradition technicalities ??
Rejoice that a twice convicted murderess will possibly escape the reasonable jail term that she was rightfully sentenced to ??
Rejoice that a drug addled spoiled brat goes unpunished for horrendously murdering Meredith Kercher?

Really ??:rolleyes:
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Yep. The CTers are so emotionally invested in this, that they've lost sight of the fact that Amanda and that other dude murdered poor Meredith. You see, many of them have literally spent thousands of hours hunched over their computers, researching where the prosecutor went to grade school, what the judge had for breakfast, and who the court reporter is dating. And for all that "important" work, they want to see a payoff. And if it means a murderer goes free, that's OK.
 
MDDVS said:
Law abiding citizens allover the world who have seen the "evidence" used to convict are not impressed by these convictions. The evidence actually shows inocennce, not guilt.

It's not surprising though, considering Italy's record of human rights violations.
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Yes, and to JFK conspiracy nuts all over the world, the "evidence" shows a shooter on the grassy knoll.

Just sayin'.
 
yimyammer said:
I hear you, but what would you do if you were innocent but convicted of a similar crime?

What does an innocent person who finds themselves in this situation do?

Bend over and take it?

Seems to me fleeing would be an understandable reaction by someone who is guilty as well as someone who is innocent.

I don't see how these actions prove anything one way or the other
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I agree in that it is a thought experiment, but I imagine he expected to be acquitted because
1. He is innocent
2. He attended the trial and testified on his own behalf.
If he was guilty he would more naturally expect to be convicted, and thus with nothing to lose attempt to find a safe haven while with passport.

In a similar vein, I contend that a guilty person would never write a detailed 400 page book, OJ notwithstanding. A guilty person would thank their lucky stars and keep a low profile, for fear of raking the coals the wrong way. For example I don't expect a tell all book from Casey Anthony, who clearly has some explaining to do.

The books were seized on by the guilters as bibles for guilt, but I saw them in precisely the opposite light. (of course)
 
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Vibio said:
In all major newspapers it's pretty much been a big yawn.

There's just not much interest in Knox and her plight. After a few weeks of interest, her book tanked quickly. She came off poorly in her Diane Sawyer and Chis Cuomo interviews: cold and unlikable. She became old news fast.

No, this case is not going to become a cause célèbre.
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Looks like her book is doing pretty good as of ten minutes ago. I expect with the GMA plug and mentions from other media outlets today this will continue to rise....

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #641 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#7 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Biographies & Memoirs > Specific Groups > Women
#11 in Books > Biographies & Memoirs > Specific Groups > Women
#15 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Biographies & Memoirs > Memoirs
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Vibio said:
You're wrong.

From Raffies Diary, writing to his father:

"The judge questioned me today and he told me that I gave three different statements, but the only difference that I find is that I said that Amanda persuaded me to talk crap in the second version, and that she had gone out to go to the bar where she worked, Le Chic."

So Raffles admits that he changed his story. He admits that he said she had gone out. He admits that Knox told him to lie.
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Here is the complete passage from which you have extracted a sentence:
The judge questioned me today and he told me that I gave three different statements, but the only difference that I find is that I said that Amanda persuaded me to talk crap [dire cazzate] in the second version, and that she [quella] had gone out to go to the bar where she worked, Le Chic. But I do not remember exactly whether she went out or not to go to that pub and as a consequence I do not remember how long she was gone for. What is the big problem? I do not remember this, for them, important detail, therefore they should stop bothering me and start investigating her [non mi rompessero e facessero le indagini su di lei]. I tried to help them in the investigation by trying to remember and now I am the one taking it in that place [where the sun never shines...]. It would have been better if I had done nothing and had limited myself to saying that she had remained at my house. I would have spared myself a lot of anxiety. Let’s talk about something else that it is better...
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So he says he really doesn't remember whether she went out or why, or what he said about it, and he is reporting what the prosecutor claims he said. No tape, no transcript. And we've heard plenty about the cops' "You have to remember!" tactics. I'd need a little more to send two people to prison.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Raffaele_Sollecito's_Prison_Diary_(Translated)
 
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So this horrible travesty of justice continues. This judge won't sleep well ever if he has anything resembling conscience.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Yep. The CTers are so emotionally invested in this, that they've lost sight of the fact that Amanda and that other dude murdered poor Meredith. You see, many of them have literally spent thousands of hours hunched over their computers, researching where the prosecutor went to grade school, what the judge had for breakfast, and who the court reporter is dating. And for all that "important" work, they want to see a payoff. And if it means a murderer goes free, that's OK.
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You are the Ct'er here, TCS. And one who will not even give us his theory of the crime. How about a timeline that fits with the evidence? Or do you do this on other threads as well, this making claims against those arguing for one side of the other without even arguing the evidence yourself?
 
moogspaceport said:
Yeah, I don't think the case was made to convict Knox or Sollecito... I don't think they are guilty of murder. But the inconsistency of their stories, and Knox's blatant lie about Lumumba leave me with a queasy feeling that something about this is amiss.
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What is amiss is tht brutal illegal interrogation that resulted in the "changed stories" and "lie about Lumumba".
 
Samson said:
I agree in that it is a thought experiment, but I imagine he expected to be acquitted because
1. He is innocent
2. He attended the trial and testified on his own behalf.
If he was guilty he would more naturally expect to be convicted, and thus with nothing to lose attempt to find a safe haven while with passport.

In a similar vein, I contend that a guilty person would never write a detailed 400 page book, OJ notwithstanding. A guilty person would thank their lucky stars and keep a low profile, for fear of raking the coals the wrong way. For example I don't expect a tell all book from Casey Anthony, who clearly has some explaining to do.

The books were seized on by the guilters as bibles for guilt, but I saw them in precisely the opposite light. (of course)
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Ha, I misread your original post, we're saying the same thing
 
Bob001 said:
Here is the complete passage from which you have extracted a sentence:


So he says he really doesn't remember whether she went out or why, or what he said about it, and he is reporting what the prosecutor claims he said. No tape, no transcript. And we've heard plenty about the cops' "You have to remember!" tactics. I'd need a little more to send two people to prison.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Raffaele_Sollecito's_Prison_Diary_(Translated)
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Nice try.

1) "he is reporting what the prosecutor claims he said"

No... you're wrong again. Later in his diary he owns up to his statement by saying "I must admit that I said a 90% really stupid thing in my second statement."

2) And phrases like this "But I do not remember exactly whether she went out or not to go to that pub and as a consequence I do not remember how long she was gone for."

That's exactly how 12 olds lie: I don't remember whether she went out or not and therefore I don't remember how long she was gone for.

LOL.
 
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