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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Kaosium said:
I have no idea what you're referring to as venom directed at Meredith Kercher. The only thing I've ever seen is to de-beatify her, and frankly I like the real Meredith Kercher more than the one constructed after her death by Mignini et al.

As for the family...there's no nobility in a lynch mob.

Also that discussion is far from "unrelenting," they seldom come up. Would you care to go through these eight main threads and see in what percentage of pages the Kercher family is even mentioned?
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Um, not sure I can help here either.
Your post will have to stand as it's own answer.

J Harold C comrade - do you look at what you have typed before hitting submit.
 
Bill Williams said:
Both of you are correct, but CoulsdonUK is conceding this possibility in his statement.

Being from, ah, er, Coulsdon, he's played his own views on this fairly quietly.... but he's hit the nail on the head. A motivations based on an acquittal will simply be a more expanded Hellmann-motivations....

A motivations based on a conviction is anyone's guess. He could simply accede to the "stipulations" of Cassazione - in effect letting Cassazione be the fact-finding court; which would be weird considering the Italian constitution!

Or he could do what Massei in essence did - completely reinvent the case, often simply inventing things, things that never made it to trial, to justify a conviction.

Guilters/haters will have a few days of their own vitriol, but things will settle down when the enormity of such a blatantly unjust conviction becomes clear.

I guess most people, even most Americans will shrug their shoulders, and go.... "Well, after all this IS Italy." They'll then go on with their lives for when the next time this enters the news - the Cassazione "one last chance". That should be in the summer of 2015.

None of this sounds terribly "just" for me, even for the Kerchers. They will have been officially misled by the highest court of an assumed civilized country.
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Bill

You are really into this PIP\PGP bubble; it’s almost like you believe it has its very own gravitational field warping space time and reality for everyone outside the bubble.

Its space Jim, but not as we know it!

So in your bubble; the haters\PGP are somehow responsible for Guede’s lenient sentence and the fact he’ll be released far too soon?
 
platonov said:
Lets review.

So Knox refuses initally to heed the Kercher laywer's demand/request that she remove the donation link from her site unless she is asked directly by the family and then later relents.
[She must have thought he was acting on their behalf - silly girl ]

Now you want me to prove to you that he was acting on the Kerchers behalf.
I'm afraid I cant help you any further with this so your plea will have to stand unanswered.


Could your emotional attachment to Amanda's plight be adversely impacting the quality of your [usually infallible] arguments !


ps re 4000 posts - basic forum tools old chap.

.
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It's hard to see how Maresca has ever acted on the Kercher's behalf. Personally considering that stunt he pulled during the trial I think Maresca has only one client. HIMSELF.
 
acbytesla said:
Seriously, did you read John Kercher's book? Can you say Harry Rag? Have you heard the things that Maresca has said in court?
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Hairy Rag? Come on lynching? How many have you been to?

It’s a bubble Jim but not as we know it.
 
lionking said:
Agreed. There will be more protests in Italy if they are acquitted rather than convicted, but either way, it will be soon forgotten there.
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The Italians are so afraid of authority that they have to truck in migrant protesters.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
Bill

You are really into this PIP\PGP bubble; it’s almost like you believe it has its very own gravitational field warping space time and reality for everyone outside the bubble.

Its space Jim, but not as we know it!

So in your bubble; the haters\PGP are somehow responsible for Guede’s lenient sentence and the fact he’ll be released far too soon?
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If I am in this bubble, how can I possibly confirm or deny it? That being said: no, the haters/guilters are not responsible for Guede's lenient sentence.
 
Speaking of lynch mobs

CoulsdonUK said:
Bill

You are really into this PIP\PGP bubble; it’s almost like you believe it has its very own gravitational field warping space time and reality for everyone outside the bubble.

Its space Jim, but not as we know it!

So in your bubble; the haters\PGP are somehow responsible for Guede’s lenient sentence and the fact he’ll be released far too soon?
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I did ask halides1 a while back if he was in favour of stiffer sentences for crimes of this kind in Italy and he (and others) were very gung ho - but apparently only for black convicts.


I could find the link in about 10 secs but I dont want LJ to think I have superpowers
 
platonov said:
I did ask halides1 a while back if he was in favour of stiffer sentences for crimes of this kind in Italy and he (and others) were very gung ho - but apparently only for black convicts.


I could find the link in about 10 secs but I dont want LJ to think I have superpowers
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Playing the race card.... fortunately it did not work for Mignini, and the various prosecution efforts since have abandoned the idea.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
Hairy Rag? Come on lynching? How many have you been to?

It’s a bubble Jim but not as we know it.
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Well, he might be Hairy, i don't know about that.

I think the "lynch mob" comment was poetic license. Still, when people are rooting to see someone's life effectively destroyed which 30 years in jail certainly would. Also, I guess you aren't aware about the actual death threats directed at Amanda.
 
acbytesla said:
Well, he might be Hairy, i don't know about that.

I think the "lynch mob" comment was poetic license. Still, when people are rooting to see someone's life effectively destroyed which 30 years in jail certainly would. Also, I guess you aren't aware about the actual death threats directed at Amanda.
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I think the emotive use of the words “lynch mod” is pure hyperbole, I doubt anyone here has ever witnessed one.

The use of Hairy Rag is just a play on words and is certainly not directed at you.

30 years in jail? In Italy that is probably 7 years actual time, it seems.
 
LondonJohn said:
It's worth reminding ourselves that the ECHR cannot constitutionally order acquittals or retrials. But actually, in practice it has the power to do just that. If the ECHR rules that a person's human rights have been violated in relation to a criminal conviction, it can order the state in question to apply a remedy. The state in question is legally bound to comply with that order, unless it elects to withdraw as a signatory to the convention.

In Knox's criminal slander case, therefore, if the ECHR rules that Knox's right to a fair trial was violated, it will order the Italian state to apply a proper remedy. In practice, this means that Italy will either have to quash the conviction (and almost certainly pay monetary compensation), or order a retrial on the charge, excluding any elements that related to abuse of Knox's human rights. And since the state's case against Knox would crumble to almost nothing if she were retried with an exclusion of those areas which related to an abuse of her human rights, she'd without doubt be acquitted in such a retrial anyhow. Which, in turn, means that pragmatically, Italy would be almost certainly bound to quash the conviction totally without going through the farce of a retrial and acquittal.

The only other choices Italy would have would be a) refuse to comply with the ECHR remedy order - which would spark a significant constitutional and judicial crisis. or b) withdraw as a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights, which would also have significant wider ramifications for Italy and Europe.

In short, if the ECHR finds that Knox's human rights were violated, this would in practice mean that Italy would have little choice but to quash her conviction.
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Thanks for your analysis as well, you put it so clearly and concisely.
 
'J Harold C comrade'
Can someone explain this to me is it bwm patois (just come back from pub so not at my brightest and quite obstreperous).
 
Eric Frimpong and the defendants in Tulia, Texas

platonov said:
I did ask halides1 a while back if he was in favour of stiffer sentences for crimes of this kind in Italy and he (and others) were very gung ho - but apparently only for black convicts.
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That is a gross distortion of the conversation, not that I am surprised. I am in favor of a heavier sentence for rape and murder than sixteen years for anyone who is actually guilty, regardless of color or economic status. On the other hand, I favor releasing people wrongfully convicted, regardless of color or economic status.

I have publicly supported black victims of wrongful convictions such as in Tulia, Texas. I also believe that the evidence against Eric Frimpong is well short of that needed for a conviction BARD, and I have attempted to help his defense by pointing out the possibility of secondary DNA transfer as the second of two plausible scenarios for how the victim's DNA was found Mr. Frimpong's genitals (the first was that she allegedly groped him). The evidence in that case as a whole points to another individual, her (possibly former) boyfriend, as having had sexual contact with the (possibly semiconscious) victim, given that his semen was found on her underwear. The original judge "...the Hon. Brian Hill, who is on public record saying that in his entire career he had never seen a single case where the evidence of guilt was so 'compelling', a statement which, based on the fact that the evidence was essentially non-existent, would seem to indicate a certain level of bias against the accused..." This statement proves that Massei is not the only judge in the world who is too thick to be presiding over serious criminal trials.
 
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