And what do you think of what Humenn was saying now that people said what they think of what he was saying? Particularly regarding his "black hole" core theory and his arrogant armchair implication that some random elevator repair guys were actually mass murderers?
Transcript of Richard Humenn's AE911Truth Interview
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And what do you think of what Humenn was saying now that people said what they think of what he was saying? Particularly regarding his "black hole" core theory and his arrogant armchair implication that some random elevator repair guys were actually mass murderers?
Mr.Herbert
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Gage's show will fog people's thinking because of a few reasons... he present his work as that of 2,000 licensed practicing building professionals who have studied the destruction AND the details of the building and his BFT is their summary findings. To average Joe, this sort of appeal to authority lends enough creds to view the video and be swayed to doubt the official explanations.
It's classic PR, spin, marketing swill (snake oil sales pitch) which is what consumers are trained to accept as fact. We fall for these pitches every day when we shop!
"Snake oil is an expression that originally referred to fraudulent health products or unproven medicine but has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is himself or herself a fraud, quack, charlatan, and the like."
It's classic PR, spin, marketing swill (snake oil sales pitch) which is what consumers are trained to accept as fact. We fall for these pitches every day when we shop!
"Snake oil is an expression that originally referred to fraudulent health products or unproven medicine but has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is himself or herself a fraud, quack, charlatan, and the like."
ozeco41
Philosopher
Wait.... this must violate one of the forum rules here.... just sayin!
The person Orphia is talking about is not the member here.
ozeco41
Philosopher
The accepted practice here is that you say what your opinion is so that we can discuss it.
The transcript is a lengthy document and Mr Humenn makes many bits of statements. None of what he says is reasoned engineering argument explaining the collapses. Put bluntly all his conclusions are untrue and there are reasoned arguments explaining all of it.
He is associated with AE911 which is a known dishonest organisation. The central claim of AE911 is that there was CD at the WTC Towers on 9/11 therefore they want a "new investigation".
The claim of CD is false and the leaders of AE911 have been advised many times that their claims are false - therefore there is no need for further investigations.
If you have any specific issues raised by Mr Humenn's statements you can ask a question about the ones which concern you I or some other member will tell you the true situation. I see that you have asked two later in your post. Otherwise it is all old claims which have been proven wrong many years ago and writing a written critique of all of it would take a lot of effort when you are free to research the topics yourself.
Here are brief answers to your two:
The electrical supply to parts of buildings are separated into zones. Some zones could still have power after other zones power was disrupted.
Yes. The "spire" columns left standing after the "progressive global collapse" for both twin towers were too tall and slender to be stable. Any number of triggers could have caused them to ultimately fall after the observed delay - vibration, impact at the base from settling debris or simply "Euler Buckling" which occurs in any column which is simply far too tall and thin to remain standing without bracing.
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
It refers to this statement:
There is no reason to think a cable break high in the tower would effect the lobby. The towers (like all large building) are divided into zones. Each zone is fed and protected individually. Think of it like a large town, if a tree falls and takes down the wires to your house (or even street) the whole town will not loose power.
This is a feed diagram with the cables he's talking about. There are no feeds to the top that effect the lobby.
http://www2.ae911truth.org/WTC1_electricaldrawings.php
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ozeco41
Philosopher
Neat bit of irony. The AE911 spokesperson not aware that the answer to his lack of knowledge is on AE911 website.
I don't want to "defend" AE911T and I agree that they spew rubbish and mis information whether intentional lies or stupidity it's hard to actually know. But they do know all the counter arguments and have backed down so they can't say no one told them.
Having said this... AE may be known as a "dishonest organisation" amongst JREFers, and other debunking type sites, or even the silent ones who came, saw and realized their pitch was hooey. But known "dishonest organisation" sounds like that this is accepted in the same way that every one knows that the USSR was a "communist" government /controlled economy.
Unfortunately since may people don't know that AE is "dishonest organisation" they are able to be taken in by their rubbish.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
I think it was nice of Gage to host that large collection of drawings for us.Neat bit of irony. The AE911 spokesperson not aware that the answer to his lack of knowledge is on AE911 website.
If the circuit protect is not fast enough.. and large circuit protection I believe is pretty slow acting... it COULD cause problems upstream from the short.
When I short a circuit in my study the breaker or fuse pops in the kitchen! I suspect that there was circuit protection at the base of the riser stacks in the sub basement. And it might have blown on the severing of the riser on the upper floors by the plane and be experienced as an explosion.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
There most certainly is for each transformer feed. (it's detailed in the drawing).
Bottom line. Nothing is impossible but, it would be wrong to assume what he does based on the lights in the lobby.
ETA: Quick look shows 15 individual protection cabinets (just for the risers).
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ozeco41
Philosopher
He knows now.
Funny the double standards isn't it - I, a debunker, dare to deliberately engage in a bit of hyperbole and it attracts comment.
An individual who persists in telling untruths after being informed of the untruth may not be "lying" or "dishonest" if the person is deluded and genuine believes the statement to be true. So we can argue that Gage is not a liar because he believes his delusions.
The same "cop out" is not available to an organisation - an organisation cannot be "deluded' - or at least cannot persist in delusion. So the "dishonest" bit was correct.
Then your comment goes to the scope of "known" - I was writing within the setting of Internet discussion on this forum. And responding to a question that he put to "us" as members of this forum so he was seeking our viewpoint which I gave him.
So arguably the "known" is also correct.
Unless the majority of members here disagree with me...and claim that AE911 is honest. Such members may post their stance "AWE911 is honest" here and if I get more that 50% of JREF against me I will withdraw my statement and apologise to everyone affected.
How is that for quick footwork?
There most certainly is for each transformer feed. (it's detailed in the drawing).
Bottom line. Nothing is impossible but, it would be wrong to assume what he does based on the lights in the lobby.
ETA: Quick look shows 15 individual protection cabinets (just for the risers).
I was correct without looking at the riser diagram... it's OK.. you can say it... it won't hurt.
How is that for quick footwork?
In OZZIAN style that was like a road runner and then some! hahahaha
I was NOT defending AE or attacking your statement just framing it in the larger context trying to explain how smart and dumb alike OUT THERE are duped by this rubbish.
The appeal to authority is the foundation that AE is erected on and used to project its rubbish. We all know how much BS that is...
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
The building I work in is three floors. Each floor has its own feed from the main distribution in the basement. The main breaker on one floor could trip and only that floor would lose power. In addition, there is a no break power back up for the server room. Furthermore the entire building has diesel back up. The whole town could go out and the automatic transfer switch would isolate this building from the grid in order to allow diesel gen power to take over.
I have to imagine that 110 storey office buildings are at least this 'sofisticated'.
I have to imagine that 110 storey office buildings are at least this 'sofisticated'.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
I don't understand. Did I claim you were wrong?
ozeco41
Philosopher
The broader issue is that he is an electrical engineer and yet he showed no recognition of the likely zoning and protection arrangements. Bread and butter matters for someone with 40 year in the game and specific involvement with this site.... Nothing is impossible but, it would be wrong to assume what he does based on the lights in the lobby.
Whatever the actual details he gives no indication that he comprehends the options. Unforgivable in his position.
(I have a long but amusing war story about electricity and a 10,000 person crowd gathering on a dam site for Xmas Carols.
The villain was a 3.54 AMP calibrated RAT. Dead and mouldy - parked himself across the 800 to 5 amp CT for the circuit breaker so it tripped at ~160 amps 415v 3 phase - numbers from memory - either the 160 or the 3.54 is wrong. Story will keep. My workaround triggered the emergency alarms in the main Grid Control Centre for NSW State.... )
[/EndDerail]
ozeco41
Philosopher
Of course it was state of the art back then and maybe upgraded. But large loads have several levels of step down transformers for power distribution in addition to the elevator motors throughout the height of the tower.
There would definitely be switches at many distribution locations to enable disconnecting for wiring in new loads. BIG switches and they too can short from spikes.
The risers were 13.8kv not 15kv anyway. He's wrong on that. Cobwebs in his brain?