Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

So different than the US. The moment a police officer arrives on scene, he reports to the dispatcher and the time is recorded in the log. Most of the cars have GPS radios now and the dispatchers know exactly where the cars are at every given moment.

And if the police turn on their blues a video and audio camera fires up which is uploaded at the end of the shift. I don't believe that the SPD uses the GPS system and they have a hell of a hard time figuring out what cars where at a scene if they weren't the primary responder. In fact, the reason one of the brass was just demoted was because of failure to find videos for court.

 

[Bill Williams]

Just when one thinks the various prosecutions of two innocents will settle down... on one motive, or no motive at all... just a choice for evil, new Prosecutor Crini chimes in and flatly denies that Cassazione had it right with "sex game gone wrong"....

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/01/20/Sex-game-scenario-ruled-out-in-Amanda-Knox-retrial/UPI-19961390238460/

And for that matter, did "multiple attackers" even make it to this, the third evidentiary trial?

But back to motive. There actually does not need to be one in a murder trial.... yet they certainly pull these out by the sackful, hoping one sticks I guess...

"I find no traces nor hints of this hypothetical erotic game," prosecutor Alessandro Crini said.....

Crini has repeatedly argued the murder was sparked by a series of arguments over the cleanliness of the apartment after a third person, Rudy Guede, left the bathroom dirty, ANSA reported. Guede was convicted of the sexual assault and murder of Kercher, but the Italy's highest court, the Court of Cassation, said it was unlikely he acted alone.​

One really needs to ask.... do Florence prosecutors trust/believe Cassazione on this one?

For those whose primary concern is the memory of Meredith Kercher, Crini's comments can only come as good news. I remember the look on Piers Morgan's face on CNN, last March, when the implication was that his friend's (John Kercher) daughter had been involved in a sex game to begin with.

 

[Mary_H]

Just when one thinks the various prosecutions of two innocents will settle down... on one motive, or no motive at all... just a choice for evil, new Prosecutor Crini chimes in and flatly denies that Cassazione had it right with "sex game gone wrong"....

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/01/20/Sex-game-scenario-ruled-out-in-Amanda-Knox-retrial/UPI-19961390238460/

<snip>For those whose primary concern is the memory of Meredith Kercher, Crini's comments can only come as good news. I remember the look on Piers Morgan's face on CNN, last March, when the implication was that his friend's (John Kercher) daughter had been involved in a sex game to begin with.

Well, it sounds like Crini did at least a little homework. That's a pretty bold walk back. What will the headlines say now?

 

[Grinder]

I believe there are three possibilities with regard to the broken glass and the video only dealt with two of them.

1. The rock was thrown from the outside and broke the outside surface of the glass.
2. The rock was thrown from the inside and broke the inside surface of the glass.
3. The rock was thrown from the inside and broke the outside surface of the glass.

Item 3 is possible because the window is an inward opening casement window. It is theoretically possible that somebody got a rock and busted the glass while they were inside the apartment with the window partially open so that the shards would land in the room thereby mimicking the results of a rock thrown from the outside. I thought this was the prosecution's theory because the distribution of the glass in the room and probably outside the room make it look like the glass was broken from the outside.

Am I confused and/or wrong about this? Maybe the prosecution's theory is that either AK or RS went outside and threw a rock into the window?

You're right. They could have broken the window from the outside with the window open and then moved the glass to mimic the rock thrown from the 'real' outside.

But, of course, they couldn't figure out they needed an alibi that matched.

 

[Grinder]

.
One other thought about the TV 5 video.

I hope the judge and jurors have been made aware that the bars on the lower window were there the night of the murder, and that the bars on the upper window were not.

That might not be obvious to them.
.

Yes. They should make that and other things clear. After all the time it is remarkable how time is actually devoted to going over the details.

 

[Grinder]

You might as well give up on this, Grinder, before you tear all your hair out as I have done over Bill's usage of the word (and he uses it a lot).

Bottom line -- don't use "factoid" to mean "false fact" around me, because it does not mean that to me.

Well I suppose you are one of those that use peruse to mean scan. Irregardless of your command I will continue to use it correctly!

 

[Grinder]

She had no internet connection at the cottage. Uploading anything was not so straightforward.
OTOH obviously she had to put the photos into her laptop for viewing.

Where did that factoid come from?

 

[Grinder]

We had this a zillion times before Katody. I think she did have internet access. The source escapes me (but I will find it). It might be Barbie quoting Amanda in a MySpace entry or an email home.

I believe it was an early communication about the cottage when she first took the room. She was describing all of the benefits.

 

[Katody Matrass]

We had this a zillion times before Katody. I think she did have internet access. The source escapes me (but I will find it). It might be Barbie quoting Amanda in a MySpace entry or an email home.

Barbie is not the best source.


Here's Romanelli.

DOMANDA – Ma a casa poi lo utilizzavate il computer?
RISPOSTA – Tutte avevamo il computer a casa.
DOMANDA – Quindi lo utilizzavate in casa il computer?
RISPOSTA – Sì sì, ma ognuno aveva il suo personale.
DOMANDA – È chiaro. C’era la connessione internet?
RISPOSTA – No.
DOMANDA – Come facevate a scaricare la posta o a navigare in
internet?
RISPOSTA – Ognuno si aggiustava come poteva, andando negli
internet point.

(testimony 7 February 2009 page 125-126 - am I good at sourcing or what? )

Basically, she says there was no internet connection at their place. Answering the question how everyone checked their mail or browse she says they walked to an "internet point". ( The internet cafe Amanda mentions or some spot with free access, I can imagine).

 

[anglolawyer]

Barbie is not the best source.


Here's Romanelli.

DOMANDA – Ma a casa poi lo utilizzavate il computer?
RISPOSTA – Tutte avevamo il computer a casa.
DOMANDA – Quindi lo utilizzavate in casa il computer?
RISPOSTA – Sì sì, ma ognuno aveva il suo personale.
DOMANDA – È chiaro. C’era la connessione internet?
RISPOSTA – No.
DOMANDA – Come facevate a scaricare la posta o a navigare in
internet?
RISPOSTA – Ognuno si aggiustava come poteva, andando negli
internet point.

(testimony 7 February 2007 page 125-126 - am I good at sourcing or what? ) Basically, she says there was no internet connection at their place. Answering the question how everyone checked their mail or browse she says they walked to an "internet point". ( An internet cafe Amanda mentions or some spot with free access, I can imagine).

The best Katody, the best

You must be right but I know there is an excited email home from Amanda listing all the great things about the place and saying there was even internet access. So she must have that wrong. I seem to recall Dan looking and failing to spot anything (a router?) that would need to be present. If Dan can't find it, it's not there. I will still hunt up that reference though as it is gnawing at me now.

 

[Bill Williams]

You might as well give up on this, Grinder, before you tear all your hair out as I have done over Bill's usage of the word (and he uses it a lot).

Bottom line -- don't use "factoid" to mean "false fact" around me, because it does not mean that to me.

Well I suppose you are one of those that use peruse to mean scan. Irregardless of your command I will continue to use it correctly!

Every once in a while I am forced to take Grinder's side on something, and it completely ruins my day.....

 

[Katody Matrass]

The best Katody, the best

You must be right but I know there is an excited email home from Amanda listing all the great things about the place and saying there was even internet access. So she must have that wrong. I seem to recall Dan looking and failing to spot anything (a router?) that would need to be present. If Dan can't find it, it's not there. I will still hunt up that reference though as it is gnawing at me now.

I imagine Amanda in her enthusiasm misunderstood what Filomena told her about the internet...

 

[anglolawyer]

I imagine Amanda in her enthusiasm misunderstood what Filomena told her about the internet...

Something like that. Anyway, I found it here

 

[acbytesla]

And if the police turn on their blues a video and audio camera fires up which is uploaded at the end of the shift. I don't believe that the SPD uses the GPS system and they have a hell of a hard time figuring out what cars where at a scene if they weren't the primary responder. In fact, the reason one of the brass was just demoted was because of failure to find videos for court.

That's an interesting point Grinder, I thought they did have a GPS system. I'll ask my friend who is is a patrol officer on the Seattle Police Department. I do know that not every car has a dash cam, although most do. I do remember that he once told me that the dash cam was always recording but it didn't save the video unless you activated it and that would save the previous (### of minutes) that had just been recorded. I don't know how many minutes it was and at the end of the shift that was uploaded. But that last information is probably out of date. My guess is the process is different now.

 

[acbytesla]

Just when one thinks the various prosecutions of two innocents will settle down... on one motive, or no motive at all... just a choice for evil, new Prosecutor Crini chimes in and flatly denies that Cassazione had it right with "sex game gone wrong"....

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/01/20/Sex-game-scenario-ruled-out-in-Amanda-Knox-retrial/UPI-19961390238460/

And for that matter, did "multiple attackers" even make it to this, the third evidentiary trial?

But back to motive. There actually does not need to be one in a murder trial.... yet they certainly pull these out by the sackful, hoping one sticks I guess...



One really needs to ask.... do Florence prosecutors trust/believe Cassazione on this one?

For those whose primary concern is the memory of Meredith Kercher, Crini's comments can only come as good news. I remember the look on Piers Morgan's face on CNN, last March, when the implication was that his friend's (John Kercher) daughter had been involved in a sex game to begin with.

What? he would prefer that his daughter totally freaked out because of poo in the toilet and they killed her for that? The prosecution's case is bizarre and weak to say the least. But nothing is weaker than motive and and their theories on why this murder took place. Every single theory is 100 percent speculation with no evidence at all backing it up.

 

[acbytesla]

Delete

 

[toto]

Perry Mason never used a factoid in those dramatic moments.

fac·toid (fktoid)
n.
1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition: "What one misses finally is what might have emerged beyond both facts and factoids a profound definition of the Marilyn Monroe phenomenon" (Christopher Lehmann-Haupt).
2. Usage Problem A brief, somewhat interesting fact.

This word should clearly never be used if it has wholly contradictory definitions.

 

[Diocletus]

Diocletus, you must have gone to Purdue. You set yourself up for that one. Engineering students from Purdue University reported that its licking machine, modeled after a human tongue, took an average of 364 licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

Great engineering school. Now, if they could only invent a machine to figure out the Perugia Lie Vortex.

 

[Dan O.]

Sand in your kibble? When is the last time you used the first move of the rock climber?

The first move of the rock climber was to hop off the wall of the parking area onto the slope below. This was an eye opener because I had previously assumed that there was a vertical retaining wall all the way down to the lower ground level. The slope gives an intermediate elevation which is better suited for the rock toss than either the lower yard level or the parking level. This is no more than hopping down from the bed of a truck which I've done in the past couple of weeks.

The second move is stepping from the opposing slope onto the lower window sill. Not much different than stepping across a narrow stream except that he had the window grate to grab on the other side. Did the climber ever step in the grass or dirt? I know I try to keep the soles of my shoes clean while climbing on boulders.

From there it is not much different than climbing to the top step of a ladder (the one with the label that says: "do not step or stand here, you could loose your balance and fall". Of course, the window is safer because it is well supported by the building. I did that last fall picking apples from atop a tall ladder.

The dynamic move crouching down to propel yourself up to grab a ledge just out of reach, I did that last summer to verify that I still could and pulled myself up to the top of the ledge. But the dynamic move wasn't necessary as the ledge of the upper window could be reached while still holding the lower casement with one hand. This is not unlike what I did while picking apples when I reached up to grab a higher branch for support while I stood atop the ladder.

 

[bri1]

Who is this girl Kelsey Kay, and what is her agenda?