Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Strozzi]

Inspector Giobbi showing off trophy photo of Knox before she was charged with a crime

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Besides the "events we knew to be correct", the statement includes "They all participated but had different roles". What was Lumumba's role? What was Amanda's role? What was Raffaele's role? Where did this information come from?

The police also declared the case closed and gave themselves medals. One would think they would at least wait until the courts decided whether the accused were guilty or not.
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Senior Police Inspector Edgardo Giobbi, department head at the Via Tuscolana offices of the forensic police in Rome, hung a photo of Amanda Knox on the department's "Wall of Shame" alongside pictures of convicted Mafioso and serial killers. Knox's picture was displayed before Knox was charged with a crime and long before the trial even began. Giobbi claims he knew she was guilty even before forensics evidence came in.

You can see Giobbi showing off the photo of Knox to a visiting journalist at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_hq8lgw4vA

 

[Diocletus]

That is not the case in the picture on IA. Do you have a different picture?



No, I don't believe they had a date. He could have used the bathroom, then helped himself to the juice, at which point Meredith might have suggested he was welcome to move along for the evening. On the other hand, he may not have asked to use the bathroom; he may have asked for a drink, and then had to use the bathroom, implying he would leave when he was finished.



It is probable he combines elements of reality with elements of his imagination in his account of what happened. Wouldn't there be signs of a struggle in the kitchen or hallway, though, if anything happened there?

Rudy had to become sexually aroused at some point, in order to have left his calling card. The question is whether he was aroused at the thought of getting with Meredith and then tried to make it happen, or did he attack Meredith and that aroused him?

We probably won't know the answer to that until the next time her rapes and kills. The under/over on that is one year.

 

[RandyN]

AV tweet- now #sollecito lawyers up for rebuttal, but both his principal lawyers had to leave early this case just never stops being the most bizarre, a Reality Show Nightmare, the principal lawyers had to leave? really? this case, for a few hours isn't that important?

This is not necessarily a disadvantage for the defense. The minor lawyers have proved to be the best so far in this 6 year old disaster. Does anyone actually need proof how bad these guys really are? Come on...simply look at this case and remove all the "Twilight Zone' parts and this defense couldn't keep this case out of court in the first place? Ridiculous!

I wouldn't count on the Italian sheeple if I was RS. Id be gone to my new home in DR.

Been there...its beautiful and has the best beaches in the world. Perfect sand, clean and safe...unlike Jamaica which is nice but dangerous...you do have to learn Spanish but it is not a difficult language. Better run Raffa. A pack of lying illogical corrupt devils is after you. They don't care how foolish, stupid or illegal their activities to convict innocent persons are. And why should they...no one bothers to look at this corruption. Did anyone look at why 3 people were denied lawyers starting on Nov 5th 2007? No. Do laws matter in Italy? Apparently only certain laws and for crimes committed by certain people.

Run Raffa run!!!

 

[Strozzi]

Vogt's ongoing inquest into Knox's secret US defense

Andrea Vogt has been busy. In addition to her tweets from the Florence courtroom today, on Jan. 19 she posted a new article titled an update on Vogt's "ongoing inquest into Amanda Knox’s secret U.S. forensic defense".

You may see Vogt's update and follow links on it at:
http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

 

[Mary_H]

We probably won't know the answer to that until the next time her rapes and kills. The under/over on that is one year.

Something to look forward to.

 

[GreyFox]

I agree completely with you that nudging things 1.5 minutes this way or 3 minutes that way doesn't really change the sequence of events. The Postal Police were indisputably on the property before Sollecito phoned 112. There were ample opportunities for Knox and Sollecito to duck out of sight and make their calls.

from a great mind at PMF.

Do these people really think that in that small space upstairs in the cottage the kids would call the police pretending to be making the first call? Do they not understand that Raf asking Amanda for information as recorded on the 112 tape (they must have a large budget) could have easily been overheard?

Nuts!

Not to mention they stay and alert people (Filomenia ,etc ) to the suspicion of a murder that they haven't even finished cleaning up (bath mat) yet.

Rather than finish cleaning or leave for there trip they supposedly are so stupid they shorten their clean up time by calling MK's cell phone that they hid so as to let others not even involved be aware of the cell phones. They don't throw them in a river or dig a hole, hide them in a tree ?

 

[Diocletus]

Who walks through a room in the middle of a burglary and leaves a shopping bag that is right in his path?

A burglar who wants to get check out the rest of the house before he starts stuffing his pockets. Or maybe a guy who wants to find the bathroom.

 

[Mary_H]

AV tweet- now #sollecito lawyers up for rebuttal, but both his principal lawyers had to leave early

this case just never stops being the most bizarre, a Reality Show Nightmare, the principal lawyers had to leave? really? this case, for a few hours isn't that important?

I was going to say that their planners read "9:00 - Trial of the Century; 1:00 - Dentist," but after looking into it, I notice that Andrea's and Barbie's Tweets about this weren't sent until about 4 p.m. That's a little late to be launching into new arguments that might last several hours. The judge was probably fine with it.

 

[moije2]

Originally Posted by Mary_H: Several questions come to mind. Why was Meredith looking for money while Rudy was there? Does Meredith's family think she was given to language like, "That whore of doper?"
Rudy may have written in his "diary" that Meredith said this but I find it impossible to be true as Rudy spoke no English and Meredith's Italian was elementary. How would Meredith know how to say in beginner Italian anything like "That whore of doper?" It is just more fabrication from Rudy and probably involves evidence fabrication under direction of his attorney.

It reminds me of when Prosecutor Mignini took on the pure role of notary and Amanda alleged wrote or dictated a statement that began with the Italian legal preamble that Mignini needed her to allegedly state voluntarily in order to pretend her statement was spontaneous without his input or influence.

Not sure about this high lighted item. "Whore of a doper" may be a literal translation from Italian to English. I don't speak Italian although picking it up slowly. I can state with certainty that in French for instance they do not use the "F" word for emphasis preceding a word (in this case "doper"). Rather they use the the word for "whore". Sorry to be so cryptic here - I got some sort of notice from the mods about trying to avoid the auto censor. Little ole me!

This use in French at least is ubiquitous, and from my limited experience the English aren't shy about salty language either. So just type in "putain d'un drogué" to google translate... Maybe this is true in Italian also. Someone else can verify before we march further down this path.

Hope I don't get my wrists slapped again!

 

[JREF2010]

Senior Police Inspector Edgardo Giobbi, department head at the Via Tuscolana offices of the forensic police in Rome, hung a photo of Amanda Knox on the department's "Wall of Shame" alongside pictures of convicted Mafioso and serial killers. Knox's picture was displayed before Knox was charged with a crime and long before the trial even began. Giobbi claims he knew she was guilty even before forensics evidence came in.

You can see Giobbi showing off the photo of Knox to a visiting journalist at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_hq8lgw4vA

I become speechless almost seeing Edgardo and his retarded, ignorant self.

Its such a shocking reality that someone in his position is so thwarted in his ability yet he holds a position like he does.

Its like someone in 2014 saying "the earth really is flat" yes it is, its very flat, I can just tell. See look out my window, its very flat and so I don't need other information to tell me anything. The earth is flat in my mind and Amanda Knox is this huge monster we captured because I'm very good at what I do.

 

[Mary_H]

A burglar who wants to get check out the rest of the house before he starts stuffing his pockets. Or maybe a guy who wants to find the bathroom.

Thanks, I need to correct that. It was a purse, not a shopping bag.

What I mean is, how careful is a burglar who just made a huge mess by breaking a window going to be? If he came in the window, he already had to step on a bunch of stuff under the window, so why is he going out of his way to leave that purse there, instead of kicking it out of the way or, better yet, searching through it and then throwing it on the bed or the floor? And if it was dark, how does he not trip on it when it is directly between him and the door?

Look at the 11th and 12th pictures here: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry------2.html

 

[Antony]

Yes.



It's not hard to guess somebody would keep their money in their drawer. Rudy guessed Amanda did, too, but now you say she didn't have a drawer.

Guede didn't know which room was Amanda's, anyway. Didn't someone say there was a drawer open in Laura's room? He probably looked through that drawer for money after the killing, then decided to work that into his sob-story, wrongly assuming it was Amanda's room.

Believe it or not, I forgot to look at the picture.

 

[JREF2010]

I was going to say that their planners read "9:00 - Trial of the Century; 1:00 - Dentist," but after looking into it, I notice that Andrea's and Barbie's Tweets about this weren't sent until about 4 p.m. That's a little late to be launching into new arguments that might last several hours. The judge was probably fine with it.

That's funny, but as you know now the Defense wraps up the 30th, so Im assuming they had made arrangements due to scheduling earlier.

The lawyers leaving was probably only shocking to those (like me) left relying on two PGP reporters tweets.

Hopefully Frank will write a article of another perspective and give another view. Of course, Andrea and Barbie probably added their known bias to their reporting tweets.

The defense has appeared to be "off their game", it seems this time there isn't the C&V report doing the work for them.

 

[Grinder]

Not to mention they stay and alert people (Filomenia ,etc ) to the suspicion of a murder that they haven't even finished cleaning up (bath mat) yet.

Rather than finish cleaning or leave for there trip they supposedly are so stupid they shorten their clean up time by calling MK's cell phone that they hid so as to let others not even involved be aware of the cell phones. They don't throw them in a river or dig a hole, hide them in a tree ?

Yes, I meant to mention the call to Filomena. They could have just turned the phones off or taken the batteries out or flushed them down the toilet (oops, they couldn't because of the pooooooop).

Since the 'cleanup' couldn't have taken more than 15 minutes, they could have easily gone to Gubbio and gone over their story of the evening. If they had stayed at the plaza for 2 plus hours they would have worked that into the story as well as the morning stop at the store where she would have bought something for the trip.

I really wish someone on the defense would make it clear how preposterous so much of the ILE contentions are.

They cleaned but left the blood on the sink and bathmat. They called Filomena but waited until after the PP arrived to call the real police and did it within earshot of the PP and others. I repeat that Amanda can be heard in the background of one of the calls which means people there could have heard it.

They staged a burglary but forgot an alibi story. They were involved in a vicious knife murder yet no blood was found at Raf's or on their clothes or shoes.

Every piece of credible evidence points to a TOD before 10:15 yet they contended it was 11:30.

The witnesses aren't witness to anything to do with the crime. People they use to set times didn't look at watches. The one that did have a watch needed his testimony altered because facts made his testimony impossible to be true.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

flying in Florence

The collective logic that the Supreme Court is so found of hinges on the necessity of a staged break in and tod. Each of these could have been smashed by the defense, but they were not.

If the defense contradicts what the CSC motivations report says, would that fly in Florence? Would the CSC acknowledge their errors? It seems to me that the problems for the defense started with a motivations document that is riddled with errors and false beliefs about forensic science.

 

[RandyN]

In the top right pic, the one on the lower left with his hand across his face is Profazio. That one is pretty much useless outside it shows he doesn't always wear his glasses like in the one with his name on it. There's another pic showing the orange pants he wore with that yellow sweatshirt which displays what a fashion pate he is.

I really can't tell, in the pic from the crime scene videos I go back and forth on whether or not that darker area the mask doesn't cover shows part of Profazio's beard.

I looked so hard for that pic but could not come up with it...that photo was the basis for my clown shoe comment though. It is probably on one of the PMF sites but I don't have the stomach for that right now...

It could be Profazio in the bunny suit but he seems so much more dark complected than the pasty Mignini. There must be video of this day somewhere...I see Stefanoni struggling with her mask ....its always something with her...We should be able to get another glimpse at the mini camera guy...Not many would have authority to carry such a non-pro instrument...Mignini and Profazio would both be at that level ...not many others I suspect. The genius from Rome I suppose...but he is thin and stupid as opposed to fat and stupid.

Who was the single hold out speaking against arrest on 2007 Nov 6 ?

 

[RandyN]

The photo on the right in post 3312 - is that the captain of the Costa Concordia leaving his ship?

hehee Caught me....another trick photo I added into the mix. The Captain? Could be...it looks like he may have tripped. I wish I had the next photo...we could confirm it if that would show his girlfriend "tripping" and falling into the same life boat. Poor clumsy oxes. Viva Italia!

 

[RandyN]

Well, that's something, anyway.



To be fair, LBR, my only erroneous assumption was that you were leaving, as you had implied, and that therefore you would not read my post. (You did not seem to have read any of the others I addressed specifically to you; at least you did not reply to them.) As Matthew, Bill, Planigale and perhaps others already have implied, claiming you have joined a forum to learn and not to criticize is asking for trouble, unless you really are there to learn and not to criticize.

The moon is also a harsh mistress!

 

[Strozzi]

Thanks, I need to correct that. It was a purse, not a shopping bag.

What I mean is, how careful is a burglar who just made a huge mess by breaking a window going to be? If he came in the window, he already had to step on a bunch of stuff under the window, so why is he going out of his way to leave that purse there, instead of kicking it out of the way or, better yet, searching through it and then throwing it on the bed or the floor? And if it was dark, how does he not trip on it when it is directly between him and the door?

Look at the 11th and 12th pictures here: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry------2.html

Mary, we can't understand or explain every little thing. The real important fact is that Meredith was killed before food started to transit from her stomach into her duodenum. We know that had to commence, absence illness, by about 9:30 pm or so. In fact, the commencement of the process was already on the late side at 9 pm. She was killed before it commenced. A & S were not there. Rudy was.

I believe Rudy climbed through Filomena's window into a dark room, did not turn on a light, may have touched a few things and felt in a drawer, but did not do a detailed search. I think it is likely that he quickly went into the living area to get an idea of the flat's layout, see where the front door is, perhaps peek out a window. Not being in a hurry, he probably thought he had time to search each room that interested him and gather valuables. I believe he may have bumped into or knocked over a chair in the dark. He also opened the refrigerator. He may have brought a knife with him. If not, he may have grabbed one from a kitchen drawer.

Rudy was in the toilet when Meredith entered. When he heard someone at the front door, his self-preservation instinct would have been to douse the bathroom light (if he had in fact turned it on), close the bathroom door if it was open and if he could get to it fast enough, and pull out his knife.

We don't know what happened next. Don't know if Meredith saw or heard (or smelled) someone on the toilet. Or if she saw the knocked-over chair and got scared. (If that had occurred and she had 20 seconds headstart she would have been frantically calling someone on her phone for help.) Perhaps she saw and sensed nothing and was at her bed and Rudy barged in her room. Only Rudy knows that.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>We don't know what happened next.<snip>

We don't know what happened at all. As I said earlier, I seldom speculate on Rudy's actions or the specific circumstances of the murder. I did so specifically because MichaelB asked me to. It's an exercise in guesswork. ETA: And irrelevant to Amanda and Raffaele's involvement.