Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[AmyStrange]

THE POT BOWL

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This is what I've collected so far on sightings of Rudy at the night clubs:

Nov. 2, 2007

• 02:00-04:00 Witnesses reported seeing him dancing at a local disco. (source?)
  SZ, Kuwaiti student dee-jay, did not recall having seen Rudy at "Domus" on the evening of November 2. (Micheli)

Nov. 3, 2007

• (early morning hours) "Pietro Camplongo said Guede was dancing alone, and that people were keeping their distance from him, because he smelled "as if he hadn't washed.Pietro Camplongo said Guede was dancing alone, and that people were keeping their distance from him, because he smelled "as if he hadn't washed." [8] [9] (it)
• The night between 2 and 3 November, Rudy is seen at the "Domus" till around 04:00 (Micheli)

8: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7995762&page=3
9: http://www.perugianews.it/it/omicid...tra_della_villetta_fu_rotta_dall_esterno.html

Since everyone seems to accept that Rudy went dancing shortly after the murder, someone should be able to confirm it.

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Thanks for that Dan. Curiouser and curiouser. I gotta go look some of that stuff up myself also. What does the 02:00 and 04:00 mean on Nov 2, first list item. Do you know?:

02:00-04:00 Witnesses reported seeing him dancing at a local disco. (source?)

3-4 am, 2-4 pm?

d

PS: Just got done watching the SF and SEA football game. And don't want to hijack this thread, but wanted everyone to know what we're calling the Super Bowl at our house.
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[RandyN]

Meredith's British girlfriends were interviewed later on Nov 2, the day her body was found, and Nov 3. I don't have access to the interview records but would assume (dangerous word, eh?) that they gave accounts of their dinner including times when the pizza was served. Wouldn't this be quite reliable as many girls gave statements and they were interviewed the night after the dinner gathering? Is there a specific problem? The police did keep records (recordings and transcripts) and put it in the case record, didn't they?

Even more interesting is that the police accept the varying times almost a whole day later out of these drunkards...errr prim and proper girls but that they rabbit punch Knox in the head twice when she cant remember minute and specific times and events some days later...funny that.

MK 8:56 call was made on her way home. The parking lot video corrected time indicates that she passes there at 9:03 or so. Her call likely did not connect due to the narrow alleys and steep walls on her path to home. She did not re-call because she was being attacked and murdered. She did not text because she was dead. The whole death thing changed her normal easily studied routine...digital data is quite 1984'ish actually.

The police and prosecutor twisting themselves into a ridiculous looking pretzel to make a case is what is so odd. And I remain amazed at how easy it was to get dumb to follow stupid right off the crazy cliff.

But sure Knox could have done it. Killed with her eyes I bet. Or stinked someone to death....that's it.

 

[Bill Williams]

Seattle going to the Super Bowl was arranged by The Masons simply to embarrass Italy. Gogerty-Marriott handled the cash.

Of course no one will hear about this. The mafia have put the Omerta-lid on all talk about it. Puget Sound is filling with bodies, just from those who wish to gloat....

 

[Kaosium]

Sorry I was slow to pick up on the significance of the photo.

There are several issues here that have been discussed before. So please ignore this post if you feel this issue has been discussed too much already. I remember trying to pin down answers to these kind of questions without a sense that I had learned anything. In the end, I think Machiavelli's view was that stuff is leaked from police investigations all the time in Italy and nobody ever does anything about it and this wasn't that unusual. (my apologies to Machiavelli if I have mischaracterized his posts on this).

1. Is it Mignini taking the pictures with the point and shoot camera? I seem to recall that Machiavelli claimed it wasn't.

My guess is Profazio, but it could be Mignini or someone else who needs to lay off the linguini.

2. Was the photograph leaked with an intentional effort to deceive? I don't recall this being discussed. Perhaps the consensus is that it obviously was (perhaps the consensus even included Machiavelli?).

I think so, which is why I linked the story that accompanied it, quoting from the part where they described it as 'new photos released by police' and the description of that being blood all over the bathroom and not the chemical used in the blood test. At the time it made Amanda's note (published by the Telegraph on 11/20/07 if not before) where she described taking a shower but not thinking much amiss sound like the ravings of a loon or a really bad liar.

3. Who owns the copyright on the picture? Since this picture wasn't taken by the official police photographer could it have been sold? Or could the company that claimed to hold the copyright have lied about owning the copyright and the image was not copyrightable?

It says 'Bancroft Media' on it and I'm pretty sure you know more about that than I do!

4. Is anybody allowed to bring their personal camera to a crime scene in Italy and take pictures that they can sell to the press? I doubt it, which means the amateur photographer needed to be fairly far up the food chain so that even if it wasn't legal, he wasn't going to get called on it.

5. Was the defense ever provided with the photos taken by the amateur photographer? In the US, I think discovery laws would have required that but in Italy I don't know.

Dunno for sure on these two, though I doubt the latter.

6. Was a retraction ever issued for the original story about this photo?

Not to my knowledge, but when I googled for the relevant story I noticed that all the pictures that originally accompanied this piece had been removed and replaced by numbers such as {1} which is why I used the wayback machine to link to how it originally looked. This must have changed in the last couple months as I linked it then and it still had the pictures displayed. This is how the story looks now, without the pictures.

 

[Strozzi]

Originally Posted by Barbie Nadeau 11/14/07 ""Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct," Perugia police chief Arturo de Felice told reporters. "She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them all in. They all participated but had different roles."

I am stunned by this. I have read repreatedly of Police Chief de Felice saying she told us what "we knew were correct" but I do not recall previously reading the initial part: "Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct,".

This means that de Felice's police interrogated the American girl to get her to change her statement to conform to what the police desired it to be. No wonder the tapes are missing.

This should be shouted from the rooftops.

 

[RandyN]

One is a clipp from the official crime scene photo. The other is a clip from the news. They are not the same photos. The perspective is different. The shadowing caused by the flash is different.

One is taken by this tall dashing guy with an expensive camera:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=597&pictureid=6972[/qimg]


The other was taken by this short fat perp with the cheap pocket camera:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=597&pictureid=5160[/qimg]

Actually I understand that Mignini who this clearly is without a doubt in my mind at least...is actually quite tall. So properly it should be ....taken by the tall fat perp with the cheap pocket camera.

And who is going to question or call out the leader of the whole investigation...ANAD...G Mignini (also not a doctor)

 

[RandyN]

Seattle going to the Super Bowl was arranged by The Masons simply to embarrass Italy. Gogerty-Marriott handled the cash.

Of course no one will hear about this. The mafia have put the Omerta-lid on all talk about it. Puget Sound is filling with bodies, just from those who wish to gloat....

Hey do we get to sit in the company box seats?

 

[RandyN]

Originally Posted by Barbie Nadeau 11/14/07 ""Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct," Perugia police chief Arturo de Felice told reporters. "She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them all in. They all participated but had different roles."

I am stunned by this. I have read repreatedly of Police Chief de Felice saying she told us what "we knew were correct" but I do not recall previously reading the initial part: "Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct,".

This means that de Felice's police interrogated the American girl to get her to change her statement to conform to what the police desired it to be. No wonder the tapes are missing.

This should be shouted from the rooftops.

Ya excessive pressure and weight is usually what causes things to buckle...or is that tea and cake that does that? I always get that mixed up.

 

[Strozzi]

Hey do we get to sit in the company box seats?

Go Seattle Seahawks! I'll have you know that my team, the Washington Native Americans helped make this possible!

 

[RandyN]

OK you decide. 1, 2 or 3?

Wait! It's a trick....3 is Zero Mostel who would have been the perfect pick to play Mignini in the new movie ....Idiot From Perugia...too bad Zero is no longer with us. Perhaps he could still do it in some sort of Satanic zombie Halloween back from the dead deal???

This is clearly not Profazio...too tall and too light....plus no clown shoes....so its Mignini. Not a postal policeman either...its Crazy coat himself...anyone have a facial recognition program?

 

[RandyN]

OK where's Profazio?

 

[RandyN]

Couple of more choices in the wheres Profazio game.

 

[Dan O.]

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Thanks for that Dan. Curiouser and curiouser. I gotta go look some of that stuff up myself also. What does the 02:00 and 04:00 mean on Nov 2, first list item. Do you know?:

02:00-04:00 Witnesses reported seeing him dancing at a local disco. (source?)

3-4 am, 2-4 pm?

Oh boy, I get to rant thanks to your segue.

Those idiots that invented the 12 hour clock ought to be hung out to dry. It's an asinine system that is probably responsible for a great deal of mental illness when forced on kids just when they think they are getting a handle on the real world. How could anyone have concieved of a system where 11pm is followed by 12am of the next day and 11am comes 11 hours later.

I try to use a rational time system in the index of my timelines. The day begins at 00:00 (representing midnight) and runs through 23:59. In the text though I usually preserve the format used by the source when there is one. I use a leading zero on the hour to keep a consistent formatting. I write dates using the format yyyy-mm-dd. This is usually self evident when the year is recognized such as 2007-11-01. And since nobody uses yyyy-dd-mm there is no confusion as there is with europiean vs US dates (04-07-1776 a pivotal point in the American revolution). Also, when dates and times are written in this format such as in file names or at the begining of text records, a regular alpha-numbric sort puts them into their natural order.

 

[Kaosium]

OK where's Profazio?

In the top right pic, the one on the lower left with his hand across his face is Profazio. That one is pretty much useless outside it shows he doesn't always wear his glasses like in the one with his name on it. There's another pic showing the orange pants he wore with that yellow sweatshirt which displays what a fashion pate he is.

I really can't tell, in the pic from the crime scene videos I go back and forth on whether or not that darker area the mask doesn't cover shows part of Profazio's beard.

 

[AmyStrange]

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Oh boy, I get to rant thanks to your segue.

Those idiots that invented the 12 hour clock ought to be hung out to dry. It's an asinine system that is probably responsible for a great deal of mental illness when forced on kids just when they think they are getting a handle on the real world. How could anyone have concieved of a system where 11pm is followed by 12am of the next day and 11am comes 11 hours later.

I try to use a rational time system in the index of my timelines. The day begins at 00:00 (representing midnight) and runs through 23:59. In the text though I usually preserve the format used by the source when there is one. I use a leading zero on the hour to keep a consistent formatting. I write dates using the format yyyy-mm-dd. This is usually self evident when the year is recognized such as 2007-11-01. And since nobody uses yyyy-dd-mm there is no confusion as there is with europiean vs US dates (04-07-1776 a pivotal point in the American revolution). Also, when dates and times are written in this format such as in file names or at the begining of text records, a regular alpha-numbric sort puts them into their natural order.

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yeah Dan, I try to use military time on my website and filing system when I can, it makes way more sense to me to use military, no messy am and pm and the day starts at zero. How Brilliant is that!!!

I do YYYY-MM-DD also for my files and webpages, I find it easier to sort and look through to find something, I have a huge "this day in the history of the Unexplained Calendar" and believe me it would be unmanageable without this dating system, It's easier to find related files and images and pdf files etc etc

d

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[moodstream]

I just read the JUDGEMENT OF THE SUPREME COURT OF CASSATION. What a stitch job! I hate to say this, I really do, but, are Italians idiots?

 

[Samson]

I just read the JUDGEMENT OF THE SUPREME COURT OF CASSATION. What a stitch job! I hate to say this, I really do, but, are Italians idiots?

One of the disconcerting aspects is what seems to be total disinterest by Italians. I can't comprehend this.

 

[Strozzi]

Couple of more choices in the wheres Profazio game.

The photo on the right in post 3312 - is that the captain of the Costa Concordia leaving his ship?

 

[Mary_H]

Ugh, you made me look and you were only kidding.

That was a nasty prank, Mary. I avoid those sites. It hurt my mind to be exposed to all the distortions and irrationality...<snip>

She said it with such a straight face. I just about looked, too.

She should have saved it for an April Fool's prank. Good one. Psych.

Sorry, Wildhorses. I never dreamt anyone would take me seriously for a change. I thought I was just riffing on Rose's earlier post.

Now that I've pulled off a prank, though, we all know there is only one direction to head from here......

 

[Mary_H]

Yes, and I remain open, and have even more doubts with regards to guilt because of this TOD information.

Well, that's something, anyway.

I didn't find your erroneous assumptions particularly humorous. I thought that this site was about addressing the topic of the thread, not making sarcastic remarks about a newbie poster.

To be fair, LBR, my only erroneous assumption was that you were leaving, as you had implied, and that therefore you would not read my post. (You did not seem to have read any of the others I addressed specifically to you; at least you did not reply to them.)

As Matthew, Bill, Planigale and perhaps others already have implied, claiming you have joined a forum to learn and not to criticize is asking for trouble, unless you really are there to learn and not to criticize.