Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance

[paulhutch]

According to this article, from two days after the ABC article, things turned out OK for Amber.
Berkeley board repeals dinner-knife expulsion
A couple of quotes:

On Tuesday night, the Berkeley County School Board heard Amber's expulsion appeal. Board members unanimously voted that she could return to school, although she first must meet with Principal Jimmy Huskey, she remains under strict probation and she must comply with periodic searches of her locker.

Another detail from the newer article makes it little more understandable why the teachers initially overreacted the way they did. What they saw was Amber passing a knife to another student.

On Oct. 12, she visited her locker for the first time since placing the knife there, she said. When she opened her locker, the knife fell out and hit the floor. Amber quickly placed it in her backpack, but then got scared and handed it to a classmate, she said.

The process of appealing the expulsion to the school board was a frustrating one for Amber's parents, who agreed that she should be punished in some fashion for bringing a knife to school.

It seems to me that Amber made a series of dumb mistakes and ended up being out of school for 12 days.

 

[TimCallahan]

According to this article, from two days after the ABC article, things turned out OK for Amber.
Berkeley board repeals dinner-knife expulsion
A couple of quotes:

While I'm glad things were resolved in this case, she shouldn't have been expelled in the first place. A few days suspension should have been the extent of it.

Another detail from the newer article makes it little more understandable why the teachers initially overreacted the way they did. What they saw was Amber passing a knife to another student.

And we are still talking about a dinner knife. Again, expulsion was excessive and petty. Shame on whoever made that decision.

It seems to me that Amber made a series of dumb mistakes and ended up being out of school for 12 days.

If we every teenager who makes dumb mistakes, we save a lot of taxpayer dollars and close all the high schools.

 

[blutoski]

While I'm glad things were resolved in this case, she shouldn't have been expelled in the first place. A few days suspension should have been the extent of it.



And we are still talking about a dinner knife. Again, expulsion was excessive and petty. Shame on whoever made that decision.



If we every teenager who makes dumb mistakes, we save a lot of taxpayer dollars and close all the high schools.

Without seeing the knife, it's possible that the weapon restriction criteria could have been met, regardless of the brand name of the knife. Just as a comparision, my dinner knives are considerably better weapons than my Swiss Army knife, in that they're sharper and longer and have a better grip. Dinner knives are sort of the opposite of a butter knife in that they're designed to slice through flesh easily.

The other factor is that we don't know what exceptions are designated. I'll bet butter knives and plastic knives are perfectly fine, but knives are prohibited if they're sharp, long, &c. This knife may have qualified regardless of whether it's part of a place setting.

A friend of mine was involved in a fracas here in Vancouver a few years ago where she confiscated "a toothbrush" and it got all over the news. We were talking about it at Thanksgiving, and yes it was a toothbrush, but its handle was sharpened into a 6" shiv and confiscated under the school's knife prohibition.

The excess is not baked into the ZT rule... it's about applying it appropriately, which is teachers' or administrators' judgement. Ironically most of the criticism is about a teacher's judgement, which is pretty much the opposite of complaining about ZT.

 

[TimCallahan]

Without seeing the knife, it's possible that the weapon restriction criteria could have been met, regardless of the brand name of the knife. Just as a comparision, my dinner knives are considerably better weapons than my Swiss Army knife, in that they're sharper and longer and have a better grip. Dinner knives are sort of the opposite of a butter knife in that they're designed to slice through flesh easily.

The other factor is that we don't know what exceptions are designated. I'll bet butter knives and plastic knives are perfectly fine, but knives are prohibited if they're sharp, long, &c. This knife may have qualified regardless of whether it's part of a place setting.

A friend of mine was involved in a fracas here in Vancouver a few years ago where she confiscated "a toothbrush" and it got all over the news. We were talking about it at Thanksgiving, and yes it was a toothbrush, but its handle was sharpened into a 6" shiv and confiscated under the school's knife prohibition.

The excess is not baked into the ZT rule... it's about applying it appropriately, which is teachers' or administrators' judgement. Ironically most of the criticism is about a teacher's judgement, which is pretty much the opposite of complaining about ZT.

Granted, a steak knife could be a very nasty weapon. However, the story said Amber was using the knife to butter her toast. I rather doubt she would have used a sharp steak knife for such a task.

 

[blutoski]

Granted, a steak knife could be a very nasty weapon. However, the story said Amber was using the knife to butter her toast. I rather doubt she would have used a sharp steak knife for such a task.

Well, not even a steak knife - a dinner knife is still sharp.
And now we're guessing about is a key piece of information (the relative weaponized quality of the knife).

My kids use the wrong utensil all the time. I caught my kid licking a breadknife once. They're kids.

 

[TimCallahan]

Well, not even a steak knife - a dinner knife is still sharp.
And now we're guessing about is a key piece of information (the relative weaponized quality of the knife).

My kids use the wrong utensil all the time. I caught my kid licking a breadknife once. They're kids.

Your dinner knives are sharp? Mine sure as hell aren't. About all they've got going for them is a serrated edge. In the case of this girl, she's a good student, high achiever, with no behavior problems. So, at the first sign of trouble, they expel her. Does this make sense to you?

ETA: I'll be away and off-line through Monday on a geology tour sponsored by the Skeptics Society. If I don't give prompt responses, that 's the reason.