LDS II: The Mormons

[Foster Zygote]

Only an evil god would ask a father to do that, and only a bad father would do it.

ETA: I was going to give more examples, like Lot's daughters, but then I read Judges 19 and had to go take a shower.

There ain't enough hot water in the world for you to read on through Judges 20 and 21.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Who was it who said "the difference between me and your god is that if I see someone raping a child, I'll do everything in my power to stop it"?

I'm not certain, but I think it may have been Hitchens.

 

[Craig4]

Though there is necessarily a veil over our remembrance, our Spirits recognise both truth and our Heavenly Father from our pre-mortal life, where we certainly could see hear and touch.

No but it's a funny story. Darkly funny. What do you think it means that the god who killed Lot's wife appeals to you?

 

[Cat Tale]

Christian Scriptures include: The Old and New Testaments of The Holy Bible... as far as translated correctly. The Book of Mormon. The Pearl of Great Price. The Doctrine and Covenants.

ROTFLOL, Oh that is hysterical. So you're defining Christian as LDS and no other religion? Most people define Christian as Catholic, Baptist, Lutheranism, Methodist, Presbyterian... and maybe LDS. Nah, the major Christian denominations don't use the Book of Mormon, D&C, or the Pearl of Great Price, except to make fun of them.

 

[Loss Leader]

Squeegee was referring to Noah's daughters. Lot's daughters were given to the unruly mob to be raped.

I don't think so. Noah's children were all married.

Lot's daughters:

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.” 33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.

There is no story about Noah's daughters.

 

[welshdean]

<snip>

Christian Scriptures include:
The Old and New Testaments of The Holy Bible... as far as translated correctly.
The Book of Mormon. The Pearl of Great Price. The Doctrine and Covenants.

Lol! Poor old Canon Delaney would have had triplets if I'd ever suggested that Mormons were xtian. He thought protestants were the devils own.

Mormonism is as close to xtianity as scientology is. Nowhere near! And both created by con men.

 

[Aepervius]

Wickedness being defined as whatever God decides to punish people for.

God is a bit like a texas shooter. Wherever disaster strike, it is god works against the wicked. And when it does not strike, God will punish them in future. So the wicked are always punished, just make the colored circle around them after they have been shot.

 

[MikeG]

Though there is necessarily a veil over our remembrance, our Spirits recognise both truth and our Heavenly Father from our pre-mortal life, where we certainly could see hear and touch.

You're confusing me now Janadele. Did your pre-mortal life include when you were Queen Elizabeth the 1st and writing Shakespeare, or are you referring to some time before that?

I mean, I'm pretty sure both Liz 1st and Bill of Stratford were actual mortals, so does "pre-mortal" include when you were mortal previously, or does it refer to a time before your very first birth?

 

[C_Felix]

So...uh...what was the point of the OP?

Were the unbelievers amongst us supposed to overwhelmed and become believers?

 

[Frozenwolf150]

ToddH... The Lord brought righteous judgement against them and destroyed them for their wickedness. Scripture is a record of the wickedness of mankind, as well as a warning and guide to righteousness and the keeping of Eternal Law.

Proselytizers. Putting the "fundament" in "fundamentalist."

 

[Resume]

Who was it who said "the difference between me and your god is that if I see someone raping a child, I'll do everything in my power to stop it"?

Tracey.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Mark 12:25;
Matt 22:30;
Luke 20:35.

 

[Janadele]

I honestly wish you would address this.

Slowvehicle: There are countless Christian Scriptural references condemning acts of homosexuality as serious sin in direct violation of the eternal purposes and commandments of God. Defining words of inference include: without natural affection, sodomy / sodomites, unnatural affection, unholy, impure sexual activity. Forcing the redefining of wholesome meanings to evil, trying to make right wrong and wrong right will be but a temporary Satanic triumph prior to ultimate destruction. These chains of Satan can be broken through genuine repentance and abandonment of this destructive soul destroying degrading lifestyle.
Moses warned homosexual relations were against God’s law.
The Third Book of Moses, Leviticus https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22-23?lang=eng#21
Chapter 20:
13. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Chapter 18:
21...neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
25. And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Paul preached that the acts of homosexuality and behaviour were sinful.
Romans Chapter 1"The wrath of God rests on those guilty of murder, homosexual practices, fornication, and other sins if the guilty do not repent." http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1?lang=eng
21...but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
24...to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator,
26...unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
31. Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Craig4]

So...uh...what was the point of the OP?

Were the unbelievers amongst us supposed to overwhelmed and become believers?

No, I think we were supposed to see the "scriptures", reject them and then Janadele was going to get all smug any happy that she'd shown us the truth and our rejection meant she got to watch us burn in fire forever.

 

[Shalamar]

No, I think we were supposed to see the "scriptures", reject them and then Janadele was going to get all smug any happy that she'd shown us the truth and our rejection meant she got to watch us burn in fire forever.

It's all about her 'superiority' over the rest of us, allows her to hate 'teh gays', and of course, avoid a moderated thread.

 

[skyrider44]

ROTFLOL, Oh that is hysterical. So you're defining Christian as LDS and no other religion? Most people define Christian as Catholic, Baptist, Lutheranism, Methodist, Presbyterian... and maybe LDS. Nah, the major Christian denominations don't use the Book of Mormon, D&C, or the Pearl of Great Price, except to make fun of them.

Apparently, you don't understand the contemporary, correct usage of include, having confused it with comprise, to wit: "comprise is simultaneously competing with include. When two words such as include and comprise have roughly the same meaning, examination will generally reveal a distinction; and the distinction between the present two seems to be that comprise is appropriate when the content of the whole is in question, and include only when the admission or presence of an item is in question; good writers say comprise when looking at the matter from the point of view of the whole, include from that of the part. With include there is no presumption (though it is often the fact) that all or even most of the components are mentioned, with comprise, the whole of them are understood to be in the list." (The New Fowler's Modern English Usage, Third Edition, Edited by R. W. Burchfield, The acknowledged authority on English usage, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1996, p.387)

Perhaps you should limit yourself to using hysterical in cases where such usage is warranted, and where you understand the difference between comprise and include.

 

[Craig B]

(Leviticus 20)13. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Do you think that's right? Is it right because it's in Leviticus? If that is the case, the other things in Leviticus must be right too, not so?

 

[Shalamar]

Do you think that's right? Is it right because it's in Leviticus? If that is the case, the other things in Leviticus must be right too, not so?

Easier to hate 'teh gays', than someone wearing clothing made with mixed fibers.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Slowvehicle: There are countless Christian Scriptural references condemning acts of homosexuality as serious sin in direct violation of the eternal purposes and commandments of God. Defining words of inference include: without natural affection, sodomy / sodomites, unnatural affection, unholy, impure sexual activity. Forcing the redefining of wholesome meanings to evil, trying to make right wrong and wrong right will be but a temporary Satanic triumph prior to ultimate destruction. These chains of Satan can be broken through genuine repentance and abandonment of this destructive soul destroying degrading lifestyle.
Moses warned homosexual relations were against God’s law.
The Third Book of Moses, Leviticus https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22-23?lang=eng#21
Chapter 20:
13. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Chapter 18:
21...neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
25. And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Paul preached that the acts of homosexuality and behaviour were sinful.
Romans Chapter 1"The wrath of God rests on those guilty of murder, homosexual practices, fornication, and other sins if the guilty do not repent." http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1?lang=eng
21...but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
24...to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator,
26...unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
31. Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Janadele:

Thank you very much for making my point.

Look at those scriptures. Not one of them, not a single one of them, is said to be words attributed to Jesus, said to be said to be the Christ.

It follows, then, as the night follows day, that none of your scriptural objections to homosexuality are "christian" objections. Not once in the christian scriptures does the anointed one ("the Christ") condemn homosexuality. (Oddly enough, he is said to condemn divorce and remarriage rather harshly, and is said to condemn showy, pushy, disruptive, for-public-consumption acts of worship rather severely.)

As to your Leviticus references: you might not realize that the same portion of Leviticus that you claim condemns the same acts that modern society calls homosexuality, also clearly condemns the eating of shellfish (not just as a dietary law, but as an "abomination"); forbids the eating of fat (not just as a dietary law, but as an "abomination"); and forbids the mixing of different kinds of husbanded animals, or plants, or fabrics...and that's just part of the list, in just Leviticus.

It follows, then, as six follows seven, that the CJCLDS should be dedicating itself to the "abhorrent and disgusting" behaviour of Red Lobster and the evils they do, and actively condemning shrimp cocktail and clam chowder, even in the privacy of the home kitchen. It also follows, as the sun follows the ecliptic, that the CJCLDS must commit itself to eradicating bacon--not just abstaining from bacon themselves, but spending their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor to eradicate the "abhorrent and disgusting" practice of eating cured pork (gasp) fat (abomination!). It further follows, as a fall follows pride, that the CJCLDS should and must be the leader in condemning and ostracizing people who keep both a dog and a cat, or who use both a mac and a PC (I wonder how many mormon vestments and/or temple garments are made of poly/cotton--is there a prescribed fabric?) to prevent the proliferation of "abhorrent and disgusting" behaviour.

As for the Pauline material, I will not bother to subject you to vocabulary studies, or textual criticism. I will simply ask: If words ascribed to Paul about "homosexuality" are so piussant, why do you, a woman, arrogate to speak out in public, to presume to instruct?

Do all CJCLDS congregations hold all things in common, and give all they have to those in need? If each CJCLDS ἐκκλησία is not governed in this manner, how do you justify such improper "sect-ual congresses"?

In other words, why do you, personally, focus so upon homosexuality? Why does it please you, personally, to attribute condemnation to Jesus that is nowhere recorded in xianist scripture, and ignore or overlook condemnation that is? Why do you, personally, sing out Paul when he says what you want to hear, and keep silent when he is inconvenient? Why do you, personally, take a cafeteria-line approach to levitical (and deuteronomical) law, adhering where it matches your prejudices, and abjuring where it does not?

An even more important question: why do you, personally, beleive that your oddly sectarian approach to xianist scripture (including the addenda and appendices your sect has attached) has any relevance as far as you getting to tell others how they must live?

I will say again: I do not care what you and the other members of your club do for and about the 'god' you have invented, and the alterations you have perpetrated upon xianism, among consenting adults in the fastness of your ebenezers.

You do err when you pretend that I should care about, much less be governed by, the superstitions of your sektebundt.

 

[Iamme]

....and in Deuteronomy.