Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

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Was it the Daily Mail article about Amanda's party which Mignini presented in court? If so, did the defense counter with the Daily Mail article about the police beating Lumumba and calling him a dirty black?
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Yes. No.

Mignini actually presented a tab story in court instead of the police report. I'd love the explanation from Mach as to how a magazine story could be presented in court.

 

[NancyS]

Nancy speculating about Meredith and her intimate practices is wrong. Giving imagined detail goes way beyond saying both girls were normal and sexually active and you know it.The post was meant to expose and offend and it did. Do you think Meredith's family or friends would approve? Try to answer without mentioning Amanda or her cause.

I think her family are probably horrified at the thought of their daughter having sex, most parents are. I doubt that many of her friends would be horrified at the thought of her initimate grooming or sexual habits as they are fairly normal for her generation. The only reason her sexual habits are relevant, is because the prosecution are trying to suggest that she is somehow 'different' from most girls of her generation and that she is prudish and puritanical. However, I think this is a lot of nonsense and that most of the evidence suggests that Meredith was a normal girl and not the new Mary Whitehouse.

 

[MDDVS]

Rudy Guede, trying to explain away his presence in Meredith's flat in an innocent way, said he was in the toilet and heard Meredith scream so loudly he thought (feared) anyone on the street could have heard it. He said the scream occurred at about 9:20 pm. Video evidence shows that Meredith approached her front door at about 9 pm and it has been calculated that she would have actually entered at about 9:04 pm.

Thanks for the clarification. I'd like to hear Briars explanation for this.

 

[AmyStrange]

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What a revolting excuse to smear the victim to " elevate Amanda" , how could you. The depth you have sunk to violate and shame a murdered girl is unforgivable.

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Where were you when Maresca projected Meredith's death photo in court for everyone to see?

Now that's beyond disgusting and so disrespectful of Meredith (and her parents allowed it and still pay the man) that what Dio did is not even a blip on the freakin' radar.

Sheesh PGPers sure can post hypocritical comments that's for sure, and more proof that this is not about true justice for Meredith at all,

d

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[Bill Williams]

I normally have no interest talking about the personal habits of either Amanda or Meredith, since both are irrelevant to the murder case (the habits of neither of them were any different than those of millions of other college girls worldwide).

However, I thought it might be interesting to note that the part of the "list" post considered most offensive to pro-guilt audiences was disclosed to the public by none other than Barbie Nadeau, in her book, Angel Face. Nadaeu, the hero journalist to the pro-guilt crowd, is the reason we know this factoid about Meredith's personal life. Why Nadeau thought it was something we needed to know, I have no idea.

Nadeau has proven herself the most successful in monetizing this tragedy. In comparison, Andrea Vogt has to comfort herself in being first on Mignini's call list for what happens at his trials.

I believe it's clear why Briars gives Nadeau a free pass when she says Slutty things about either Amanda or Meredith.

The guilter/haters have such a transparent agenda when they hijack Meredith's memory for their hater purposes. Lynch mobs and playground bullies infest the internet and groups such as this.

 

[Kaosium]

But now I was talking about the staging scenario, and the consistency between the above alleged scenario and having committed a theft (maybe).
There isn't any logical connection between the two things.

Your scenario takes in account some picked pieces of evidence but leaves out a lorry of other pieces and explanations, points creating a huge pattern inconsistence.

The pieces of evidence I 'picked' were the ones that make it difficult to dismiss--or even challenge--the likelihood of Meredith being placed there and assaulted after she'd been stabbed elsewhere in the room. You may even have noticed I left out the putative semen stain, the one found on the pillow that was found under her hips. Let's pretend that was something else for a moment, as I'd rather not believe that's how Meredith died: being violated as she lay dying knowing that basically the last thing she might see was her killer's face as he did that.

Therefore I am more than willing to consider alternative explanations for that evidence, and even entertain reasons why that evidence is not valid, the problem is I cannot come up with legitimate reasons to do so. For example, I would be willing to accept the possibility the DNA of Guede's found inside Meredith was contamination, perhaps from the lab, however the fact Guede acknowledged he'd touched Meredith there anyway makes that rather a pointless endeavor. The blood evidence is clear that Meredith was originally stabbed elsewhere in that room and then placed there with the pillow bearing Rudy's handprint on it under her hips. The bra and the area underneath it both having aspirated blood droplets suggests the bra was removed after she was stabbed but before she was dead, and considering the pattern on her chest probably in the position she was found in, lying on her back. The bra was found with indications it was ripped off from the front and the position it landed consistant with where a right-handed person might throw it after ripping it off.

Which is actually huge so that it becomes unreasonable to attempt explain the crime with a Guede-alone scenario.

What do you think they are, and more importantly how do they affect the ones above?

But moreover, whatever you think about the physical evidence, your scenario is anyway totally independent from any evidence you have about Guede's criminal profile. Your scenario is extreme in terms of motive or criminal profile, and you just can't deduce your peculiar scenario from the fact that he slept in a nursery school in Milan or that he had stolen items or drinking habits. As I said the logical link between your scenario and Guede's profile is certainly not stronger than the link between Knox's profile and Crini's scenario.

My problem here is what the evidence suggests and that I cannot find reasonable grounds to dismiss or re-interpret it. I agree it's extreme, thus it would not surprise me overmuch if Guede was drugged up on meth or something which supposedly causes all sorts of bizzarre behavior. As you're aware, Thoughtful's son-in-law ran around with Rudy's crowd and she's stated that hard drugs were an issue with that group, thus it's not unlikely that Rudy was all messed up on drugs when he murdered Meredith, something that fits with him going out dancing afterward, an odd decision no matter what exactly happened when she was murdered.

 

[Dan O.]

Split from: Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Do you think Meredith's family or friends would approve? Try to answer without mentioning Amanda or her cause.

What we do here would definately be approved of by Meredith's family and her true friends. What we do is discuss the facts, where those facts come from and if they are consistent with the known laws of the physical world. In other words, we seek the truth. I'm not surprised though that certain hate cults that put up a pretense of remembering Meredith try to spin the truth into disrespect.

 

[AmyStrange]

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You have made your unfortunate position and purpose very clear. All is fair when supporting Amanda. My final comment to you is, hopefully the Kerchers have no idea this site exists. The thought of a family member having to read your sick irrelevant thoughts about her sex life is inhumane.

They know,

d

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[Welshman]

If there was a mountain of solid evidence and a watertight case against Amanda, why do the PGP have to rely heavily on events which happened before Meredith's murder as evidence rather than direct evidence that Amanda was inolved in Meredith's murder.

 

[Rolfe]

Nancy as a woman I would have thought you might take offence to the recent horrific post involving the murdered girt.You want to spin it or justify it? We have nothing to share or discuss.

"As a woman", I thought it was realistic, and something that badly needed saying. And, didn't Meredith get some sort of drunk-and-disorderly ticket back in England?

Rolfe.

 

[Strozzi]

Nancy speculating about Meredith and her intimate practices is wrong. Giving imagined detail goes way beyond saying both girls were normal and sexually active and you know it.The post was meant to expose and offend and it did. Do you think Meredith's family or friends would approve? Try to answer without mentioning Amanda or her cause.

Meredith's family and friends grieve for her loss. They have our greatest sympathy for their loss.

Meredith in her last moments knew she was the victim of a terrible, terrible crime by Rudy Guede, who was introduced into her life by her friend Giacomo who allowed a guy he barely knew into his home to smoke dope with two foreign girls who did not understand the dangers of Perugia.

I have already numerated the great injury and financial harm that Rudy's crime did to Meredith's grieving family and friends. I also numerated the egregious harm Rudy and the PLE have done to AK and RS and their families as well.

The Kercher family through their agent Maresca actively support the PLE in convicting A & S for a crime they did not commit. The family still seeks to put them in prison for up to 30 years. That is venal. For that, the family and their agent are not a protected class.

 

[Dougm]

If there was a mountain of solid evidence and a watertight case against Amanda, why do the PGP have to rely heavily on events which happened before Meredith's murder as evidence rather than direct evidence that Amanda was inolved in Meredith's murder.

Good question. And I think (almost) everybody knows the answer.

 

[Machiavelli]

The pieces of evidence I 'picked' were the ones that make it difficult to dismiss--or even challenge--the likelihood of Meredith being placed there and assaulted after she'd been stabbed elsewhere in the room. You may even have noticed I left out the putative semen stain, the one found on the pillow that was found under her hips. Let's pretend that was something else for a moment, as I'd rather not believe that's how Meredith died: being violated as she lay dying knowing that basically the last thing she might see was her killer's face as he did that. (...)

But these pieces are extremely simple to dismiss. It's very easy to place a pillow under a body, anyone could do that, no need to have this person willing to rape a corpse, might be just a more common stager.
Meredith surely laid on the floor after the stabbing but before dying, for sure the scene was altered, there was a wiping of the floor with towels and part of her undressing (blue sweater) was accomplished after the stabbing.
But this does not mean that also the sexual violence occurred after the stabbing.

What element is inconsistent? Well actually the number of pieces of evidence is huge. Just to start, the presence of 40+ bruises on the body and the whole picture of wounds. But I mean this is just the start.

 

[Diocletus]

Meredith in her last moments knew she was the victim of a terrible, terrible crime by Rudy Guede, who was introduced into her life by her friend Giacomo who allowed a guy he barely knew into his home to smoke dope with two foreign girls who did not understand the dangers of Perugia.

This is a good point, and I don't think that nearly enough attention is paid to Giacomo Silenzi. He looks like a sleaze ball, and he's a rockin', pot-growin' kind of guy who partied with a burglar/sex-pest. Apparently, he didn't treat Meredith very well. As you point out, he was the facilitator of the contact between this burglar/sex-pest and Meredith, and this is the contact the led to Meredith's death.

Ultimately, the choice of Silenzi as her boyfriend was fateful and fatal to Meredith. It could have led to the death or one or more of the other roommates.

Choices have consequences.

 

[codyjuneau]

You have made your unfortunate position and purpose very clear. All is fair when supporting Amanda. My final comment to you is, hopefully the Kerchers have no idea this site exists. The thought of a family member having to read your sick irrelevant thoughts about her sex life is inhumane.

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Personally I wish that nothing about Meredith's personal intimate lifestyle was made public. I feel the same about Amanda's personal intimate lifestyle.

Unfortunately, the pro guilt side has been living in a glass house and throwing bricks, so what do you and they expect Briars?

Here's the problem the way I see it:

After Meredith was murdered, the police should have been patient and waited for the forensics. Instead they jumped to conclusions, bullied a police engineered statement out of Amanda, arrested three innocent people, declared case closed, and gave themselves medals. Now they had baggage, big cojones bravado baggage.

When it came time to interpret the forensic results which clearly showed Rudy to be the culprit, the baggage trumped common sense.

Without the baggage it would have been dead nuts obvious from the forensic results that Rudy Guede, a suspected burglar known to use a rock to break in through upper floor windows, known to carry a knife, had done what burglars do. Rudy found the cottage empty, broke in, Meredith came home and surprised him, a confrontation occured, it escalated and Rudy murdered her.

Without the baggage, the police would have arrested Rudy, and had a good chance at getting him to confess. But instead of confessing Rudy was able to co-opt cherry picked parts of Mignini's stupid theory for his own defense.

Without the baggage the murder would have been solved within a month. The Kerchers could have honored Meredith's memory knowing the murderer had been found and was being dealt with by the law. Meredith's private life and habits, as well as Amanda's would have been kept private. There would have been no need for anyone to try and dig up dirt on Amanda, or Filomena, or Laura, or Meredith's friends, or Meredith or anyone. The Kerchers would be broken hearted for ever, people would be heart broken for them, but they would not have to endure this absurd spectacle called justice, Perugian style.

This case really is dead nuts obvious Briars, unless one has baggage. Big cojones bravado baggage.

IMO
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[Diocletus]

Just to start, the presence of 40+ bruises on the body and the whole picture of wounds. But I mean this is just the start.

I'm not at all impressed by this alleged "40+ bruises" (which I suspect is more like 10). What's your next item?

 

[AmyStrange]

But these pieces are extremely simple to dismiss. It's very easy to place a pillow under a body, anyone could do that, no need to have this person willing to rape a corpse, might be just a more common stager.
Meredith surely laid on the floor after the stabbing but before dying, for sure the scene was altered, there was a wiping of the floor with towels and part of her undressing (blue sweater) was accomplished after the stabbing.
But this does not mean that also the sexual violence occurred after the stabbing.

What element is inconsistent? Well actually the number of pieces of evidence is huge. Just to start, the presence of 40+ bruises on the body and the whole picture of wounds. But I mean this is just the start.

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...and what evidence do you have that Rudy didn't do all those wounds? He had passed the point of no return and had to kill the only witness, or maybe he did kill her by accident during a struggle. I personally believe that more than Amanda outside the room directing him and Raffaele. What a joke.

You have no real proof (except sheer speculation) that anyone else except Rudy killed her. He confessed to being in the room at the time and you give him a pass, but not Amanda, because this PGP campaign has nothing to do with Meredith. It's all about gettin' that witch Amanda.

The poor poor Rudy attitude is what proves it,

d

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[Grinder]

Briars,

Where is the line in a case like this? The prosecution has said that the murder was associated with drugs and sex. Much has been made of Amanda's lifestyle even to the extent of maintaining that it offended Meredith. Does it offend you that the prosecution characterized her as a prude or prudish? Do you think Amanda did things that Meredith didn't approve of? If yes, would it be appropriate to demonstrate that Meredith partook in activities even more extreme?

I think it is unfortunate that the PGP have consistently attacked Amanda, her family and friends. Do you approve of the photo-shopped pictures of Preston et al.? Do you approve of calling Amanda 'stinky' or Raf 'knife-boy' and 'porn-boy'. Does it bother you that they have mocked Curt's shirts and Edda's body?

Meredith's sex life and lifestyle are part of this case. Meredith wasn't perfect and she certainly enjoyed a good time. While I'm uncomfortable talking about personal grooming and sexual choices, this case has made it difficult not to address those.

 

[js202]

Nauseating.

Nauseating because your position is based on lies, exaggeration and innuendo?

Reuters absurdly reported that Meredith had 40 *cuts* on her body; almost as absurdly, you claim 40 bruises. Neither is correct.

However, even if there were 40 bruises, this would not prove the participation of two other perps, and it *certainly* does not prove Knox's and Sollecito's involvement.

What's next? The blood stain on the bathmat that matches Guede's arch and big toe? The kitchen knife that fits neither the stain on the bed nor the wounds to Meredith's body? The luminol blobs that were not confirmed as blood, and have no probative value whatsoever?

 

[Diocletus]

Nauseating.

What I find to be nauseating is that a civil party is allowed to hire a liar to say that a single attacker is excluded, when 7 out 7 other experts say that a single attacker cannot be excluded.