Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Mary_H]

It would absolutely astonish me to find out The Machine/Harry Rag was a member of the family. However it would not surprise me at all to find that The Machine/Harry Rag was in contact with and/or sometimes that name was used when someone from the family (or Maresca's office) spewed forth their bilge, as often that moniker has been used for 'compilation' posts and I know that others (Such As a bunny with lawyerly pretensions) have assisted The Machine in generating those lists that got spammed to the seven heavens the past six or so years.

And yet the guy is tweeting his bile, nonsense and lies at a fever pitch in these waning days. The individual behind the persona is without question mentally unbalanced and/or deeply personally invested in the outcome.

Someone posted that they presume Harry Rag to be an older person; lots of spare time, plus he makes a reference to the Kinks song that leads off their great record Something Else. What if he simply has an undemanding position like a career desk job at the BBC, and his *father* is of the generation to have been directly affected by UK bands like the Kinks?

Is it too much of a stretch to presume that Bremner reached out, say, to an ex-FBI man like Steve Moore, who contacted a connected IT guy who was in turn able to hack Rag's IP address? Bremner and Moore have both put themselves out there; to the guilters chagrin, these are two pretty credentialed and serious guys. I'm inclined to believe them.

What, exactly, does it mean for John Kercher, Jr. to be Harry Rag/The Machine? Is there something immoral or illegal about it?

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>Meanwhile the prosecution and even the PGP will not because they can not present a time line showing guilt of RS and AK that fits facts and proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And yet the case is being debated in a supposed legitimate judicial system. WTF am I missing here? I feel that it is necessary for the prosecutor to show exactly how the crime proceeded and how he proves that with the facts he presents...so far there seems to be a real disconnect in this prosecutors burden. Huge gaping holes made even deeper with suspicious DNA data, burned computers, missing interrogation tapes, denial of legally guaranteed rights, corrupt attempts with sub-related cases to silence protesters or even jail defenders. This is not a confusing case...rather it is quite clear what has to be going on here.

A few years ago we did a test in this thread IIRC and the task took the PG side and attempted to create a time line for the prosecution and the PGP. I seem to recall that Kaosium did the best job but even that attempt was more baffle than brilliance.

The lawyers are failing miserably. The staged break-in was not disproved with a simple video taped climb and entry. The multiple attacker evidence was not picked apart when that was such a simple task...thousands of murders have tons more wounds or lack of wounds if that is the point they try to infer...yet the court hears nothing...including the SC.

A miserable 6 year long failure to attack the most ridiculous case on earth. Maybe you cant fix stupid...I see no reason to pander to it though.

The only conclusion I can come to is that subconsciously they are having trouble letting go of it. With the multi-trial system, the longer a case lasts, the better, even for a little case, because that is a lawyer's and a judge's meal ticket. And in this case, it's also free advertising for everybody involved, including the country of Italy.

It's just a whole different approach from what we have -- we want to solve problems and move on, they want to savor the process and "live the life." Why else hold a trial only two or three days a month? Why else enable the years-long continuation of "the most ridiculous case on earth?"

 

[RoseMontague]

What, exactly, does it mean for John Kercher, Jr. to be Harry Rag/The Machine? Is there something immoral or illegal about it?

I don't think it would mean much for Kercher, Jr. For AK and RS however, I don't think they would be as inclined to tiptoe around the Kercher's role in the prosecution of the case.

 

[Mary_H]

[Amanda] was asked about this rumor, so she clarified what really happened. Why shouldn't she? It was a harmless practical joke. The people who are gloating about this revelation have completely forgotten that they described it for years as a "rape prank" involving mock assailants with ski masks.

In my opinion, there are some good reasons why Amanda and Raffaele should remain silent and detached. First, information about their lives is nobody's business. The general public is violating their personal boundaries. It is not the defendants' responsibility to ease anyone's curiosity. They are trying to be helpful, but I think that will prove more draining than productive for them.

Second, I don't see how it can possibly be in the best interests of either one of them to continue to trust people who can't be trusted, although I recognize that when you are brought up in sane homes, it is a hard habit to break.

Third, victims often dwell on trying to understand the thinking and motivations of the people who victimized them. This is a waste of time. Not only is it something that can't be figured out, but it displaces energy that can be used for healing. It's like that saying about not allowing your enemies to live rent-free in your head.

The brouhaha about this case is a system of energy and actions. The less energy and the fewer actions A & R put into it, the more energy and actions must be expressed by others. It's not A & R's problem.

 

[Mary_H]

I don't think it would mean much for Kercher, Jr. For AK and RS however, I don't think they would be as inclined to tiptoe around the Kercher's role in the prosecution of the case.

That's a good point; I hadn't thought of that -- they can drop the "dignified silence" meme. However, I don't see it as much different from what we have done.

 

[acbytesla]

In my opinion, there are some good reasons why Amanda and Raffaele should remain silent and detached. First, information about their lives is nobody's business. The general public is violating their personal boundaries. It is not the defendants' responsibility to ease anyone's curiosity. They are trying to be helpful, but I think that will prove more draining than productive for them.

Second, I don't see how it can possibly be in the best interests of either one of them to continue to trust people who can't be trusted, although I recognize that when you are brought up in sane homes, it is a hard habit to break.

Third, victims often dwell on trying to understand the thinking and motivations of the people who victimized them. This is a waste of time. Not only is it something that can't be figured out, but it displaces energy that can be used for healing. It's like that saying about not allowing your enemies to live rent-free in your head.

The brouhaha about this case is a system of energy and actions. The less energy and the fewer actions A & R put into it, the more energy and actions must be expressed by others. It's not A & R's problem.

I think the bigger issue really is that anything negative that they might have to say about the Kerchers will inevitably get twisted against Amanda and Raffaele. You could hardly blame Amanda and Raffaele from getting angry but they are far better off showing dignity and grace under fire than taking the bait. This is where you let others be the hatchet men and do the dirty work. It's politics 101. Be careful about attacking your opponents directly. Better to have surrogates or others do it. This is what Vice Presidents are for, for example. Better to have Doug Bremner, or Steve Moore or Judge Heavey. Everyone but Amanda and/or Raffaele.

After all, this is exactly what the Kerchers are doing. They are saying that they just want justice and maintaining a reserved exterior. And attacking them anonymously.

If there is iron clad proof, I think it might be fine for Amanda and Raffaele to go after them directly AFTER the case is settled in Amanda and Raffaele's favor.

 

[Mary_H]

I think the bigger issue really is that anything negative that they might have to say about the Kerchers will inevitably get twisted against Amanda and Raffaele. You could hardly blame Amanda and Raffaele from getting angry but they are far better off showing dignity and grace under fire than taking the bait. This is where you let others be the hatchet men and do the dirty work. It's politics 101. Be careful about attacking your opponents directly. Better to have surrogates or others do it. This is what Vice Presidents are for, for example. Better to have Doug Bremner, or Steve Moore or Judge Heavey. Everyone but Amanda and/or Raffaele.

After all, this is exactly what the Kerchers are doing. They are saying that they just want justice and maintaining a reserved exterior. And attacking them anonymously.

If there is iron clad proof, I think it might be fine for Amanda and Raffaele to go after them directly AFTER the case is settled in Amanda and Raffaele's favor.

All I would add is that anything they have to say will inevitably get twisted against them. The PGP don't want information, they want ammunition.

 

[Strozzi]

The Washington Post has a front page headline and article today that refers to the US Supreme Court workload in the next 100 days. Over the approximately next 100 days, it will hear oral argument in 25 cases.

I'm amazed that the Italian Supreme Court can handle so many.

 

[js202]

What, exactly, does it mean for John Kercher, Jr. to be Harry Rag/The Machine? Is there something immoral or illegal about it?

Mainly, duplicity. To a disgusting degree, when one considers the "dignified silence" nonsense that has been passed around by those on the wrong side of this case.

If Kercher Jr. has engineered the Harry Rag character, behind the cloak of anonymity, he has engaged in harassing individuals like Steve Moore in their workplace, spammed the internet with obfuscations and lies, and now appears to be tweeting every public figure who has a Twitter account that they should be aware of his warped view of the facts on the case.

All while his family has a multi-million euro civil case against Knox and Sollecito.

 

[NancyS]

Harry Rag is either a member of the Kercher family or a total nutcase. I can understand a grieving relative showing this degree of anger, hatred and obsession - however, it is harder to imagine anyone with no connection to those involved showing this degree of commitment.

If Harry Rag is claiming not to be a member of the Kercher family - is he also claiming that he doesn't have the support of the Kercher family to do what he is doing? Would a family who want to maintain a dignified silence and who desperately want to know the truth, approve of his actions? I think not

 

[js202]

Harry Rag is either a member of the Kercher family or a total nutcase. I can understand a grieving relative showing this degree of anger, hatred and obsession - however, it is harder to imagine anyone with no connection to those involved showing this degree of commitment.

If Harry Rag is claiming not to be a member of the Kercher family - is he also claiming that he doesn't have the support of the Kercher family to do what he is doing? Would a family who want to maintain a dignified silence and who desperately want to know the truth, approve of his actions? I think not

Concur on all counts. Well expressed.

 

[Briars]

I can't speak for Doug, but for Steve, he was trying to say he knows (it's been talked about from people in the know) and also trying to explain why he is this way...mean and full of hate. If you read Steve's blog you can understand him more and try to be more compassionate.

However, he's thumbing in our noses know. We've been nice. But if he wants to go this route, we'll do what we have to (even if we didn't want to). He's being quite the jerk and he is on a mission...what they don't know if how foolish they're coming off by the amount of spam they are sending to any and every journalist. I kind of feel sorry for the amount of desperation in what he thinks is for his sister. If you think about it it's terribly sad. But there's no excuse good enough for him to be an ass to us...especially when we could have been...

What does " we'll do what we have to" mean exactly? Do you take credit for posting John Jr's work information on line by any chance? The collective attack on the family seems to be gaining momentum on this very site. Michelle you link to Steve's blog and speak for him that he "knows". This kind of harassment towards the family is counterproductive for you.

 

[js202]

What does " we'll do what we have to" mean exactly? Do you take credit for posting John Jr's work information on line by any chance? The collective attack on the family seems to be gaining momentum on this very site. Michelle you link to Steve's blog and speak for him that he "knows". This kind of harassment towards the family is counterproductive for you.

If her family has been attacked by the Kerchers or their surrogates, should she not counter? Some people only understand getting smacked in the face. If Kercher Jr. is Harry Rag, he deserves no less. There are many aggrieved families in the world who have seen fit to take less license in their mourning than stalking and harassing opposing parties.

Whomever was responsible for going after Steve Moore's - amongst others - job surely deserves some comeuppance.

 

[acbytesla]

Harry Rag is either a member of the Kercher family or a total nutcase. I can understand a grieving relative showing this degree of anger, hatred and obsession - however, it is harder to imagine anyone with no connection to those involved showing this degree of commitment.

If Harry Rag is claiming not to be a member of the Kercher family - is he also claiming that he doesn't have the support of the Kercher family to do what he is doing? Would a family who want to maintain a dignified silence and who desperately want to know the truth, approve of his actions? I think not

Why can't he be both??

 

[Briars]

If her family has been attacked by the Kerchers or their surrogates, should she not counter? Some people only understand getting smacked in the face. If Kercher Jr. is Harry Rag, he deserves no less. There are many aggrieved families in the world who have seen fit to take less license in their mourning than stalking and harassing opposing parties.

Whomever was responsible for going after Steve Moore's - amongst others - job surely deserves some comeuppance.

You promote attacking a grieving family based on a rumor , nice ,and telling.

 

[Diocletus]

Have you looked at the video shot in the downstairs apt.? The pattern of bloodstains fits an injured pet more than it does a person who was dripping with blood. I can't see a scenario where Guede (or anyone) would go down there and drip blood on a mattress, on the sofa, and on the bathroom floor, but not do anything else or leave any other sign of his presence. It may be an interesting theory, but there is no solid, reliable evidence that anything like that happened.

On the other hand, the blood spots on the outside stairs don't look to me like anything that a pet would leave. Also, the blood smear on the downstairs lightswitch would not be the doing of a pet.

My questions:

Is the perp responsible for the outside drips? I think yes.

Did the perp get into the downstairs apartment? No sure about that.

If the perp did get into the downstairs apartment, then which blood spots did he leave? I think the answer would be the lightswitch and the shower. Not sure about the mattress and sofa.

Whose blood is in the drips? I think that the outside drips are diffuse Kercher blood. If the perp got inside, then maybe the shower is as well. Not sure about the others.

There is at least some solid evidence here:

1. A sample from the mattress clearly quantified positive for human DNA, and it appears that the ensuing egram (no. 601) was suppressed. It also appears that at least 4 other samples from the bed (comforter/mattress/pillowcase) quantified positive from human DNA, and ensuing egrams (nos. 600, 602-604) were suppressed.

2. Several of the outside blood drops tested positive for blood, and of these, several traces (nos. 47042, 47045, 47047) appear to have quantified positive for human DNA. Yet there is no indication that the samples were subjected to electrophoresis. Why not?

3. The downstairs lightswitch sample is the only downstairs sample tested after the suspect arrests on November 6. It appears that two egrams (nos. 688 and 689) resulted from the downstairs lightswitch test, and they have both been suppressed. Why?

 

[acbytesla]

What does " we'll do what we have to" mean exactly? Do you take credit for posting John Jr's work information on line by any chance? The collective attack on the family seems to be gaining momentum on this very site. Michelle you link to Steve's blog and speak for him that he "knows". This kind of harassment towards the family is counterproductive for you.

Attack on the family? Surely ye jest? You act like this family hasn't been on the attack for 6 years doing everything possible to make Amanda and Raffaele's lives miserable when the truth is staring them in the face.

At one time, you might be able to argue that they were innocent bystanders in this affair, but that time has long since past. Kercher wrote a book attacking Amanda, he hired an Italian attack dog who has said nothing but despicable lies about Amanda and Raffaele.

While it is a tragedy what happened to their daughter, it does not give them license to destroy two very innocent people's lives.

Overall Amanda Knox and her family have comported themselves with dignity and grace always giving the Kerchers a pass. And it appears that all the while the Kerchers have been using all their personal media expertise doing everything they can to make the Knoxs' lives a living hell.

At what point Briars do the Knoxs' say the hell with it? And take the gloves are off and use everything in their considerable power to expose this duplicitous and despicable behavior?

I don't actually expect the Knoxs to do that, but frankly sometimes I think they should.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

bingo

All I would add is that anything they have to say will inevitably get twisted against them. The PGP don't want information, they want ammunition.

Succinct and right on the money. The April Fools joke is a good example of how the PGP are frequently wrong but never in doubt. It wasn't a rape prank (just a silly stunt that anyone in college might have done), and thank you, CoulsdonUK, for being so forthright.

 

[js202]

You promote attacking a grieving family based on a rumor , nice ,and telling.

Go away with that old nonsense. If the Kerchers have promoted - or are directly responsible for - the behavior of a Harry Rag, you have surely backed the wrong horse. But, then, that should have been obvious to keen persons from the start.

The scales appear to be falling away, now. Certain circumstances are being revealed in a light so that they now make perfect sense. Tough to walk such a cat back, and the timorous emotional blackmail which has been your side's stock in trade - amidst more vicious posturing - will no longer be enough.

 

[acbytesla]

You promote attacking a grieving family based on a rumor , nice ,and telling.

No, in fact, she didn't Briars. She said If Harryrag was John Kercher. But frankly, who gives a crap? I've read enough of the bilious and false sleaze that John Kercher wrote in his book. In addition, the Kerchers hired an Italian lawyer who has lied and attacked Amanda and Raffaele for 6 years.

How long do the Kerchers get to hide behind the "grieving family" label all the while doing nothing but act in a despicable fashion?

If you ask me, that license expired years ago.