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Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

pakeha said:
How was it Elena found four nails, if one of the four had been thrown into the sea in the first century?
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Because Jesus was at the center, He had four nails—one each for His hands, and one each for His feet. The fifth nail is for the INRI sign. The name of the thief to the right of Jesus is Dimas. His right foot over his left foot to face the center. The name of the thief to His left is Hestas. His left foot over his right foot also to face the center. They have signs also over their head to identify the condemned persons. Dimas and Hestas each had four nails

Santa Elena, in the fourth century AD, found twelve nails, eight of which were rusty because they had been buried for over three hundred years. Please read #265 on page 7 of this thread.

Why did Santa Elena find only 12 nails? There should be 13. Because one nail had been thrown into the sea during the First Century AD to calm the storm when Pontius Pilate was to be buried.
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Because Jesus was at the center, He had four nails—one each for His hands, and one each for His feet. The fifth nail is for the INRI sign. ... Dimas and Hestas each had four nails

Santa Elena, in the fourth century AD, found twelve nails, eight of which were rusty because they had been buried for over three hundred years. Please read #265 on page 7 of this thread.

Why did Santa Elena find only 12 nails? There should be 13. Because one nail had been thrown into the sea during the First Century AD to calm the storm when Pontius Pilate was to be buried.
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Then one of her four nails must have belonged to the thieves, unless the thief nail was thrown into the sea and performed the miracle of appeasing the storm. But we learn from the Macarius true cross test that only the Jesus things could do miracles. The thieves' crosses couldn't cure anyone by miraculous powers, so I don't suppose their nails could affect the weather.
 
Peace Crusader, I can't speak for halleyscomet but as an atheist I can tell you that I don't believe in any gods because I can see no convincing evidence for their existence. You seem to be implying that non-believers secretly believe in God but choose to reject him - this is ridiculous.

If Ka Apaz's grotesque misinterpretation of the Bible is true why has God allowed the false version to exist for so long? Why does she believe the King James version to be the most accurate one when it doesn't contain any of her fantasies? The stories she's told you are based on medieval legends. Most of them are so silly even the modern Roman Catholic Church finds them embarrassing.

By the way, what do you think of the Infancy Gospel story about the young Jesus creating twelve sparrows out of clay? Is it more or less credible than the one about him creating the Pontius Pilate golem?

Had you heard the story about Constantine and Helena being 'Moors' before Ama told it? Do you believe that historians have conspired to hide the truth about their origins by inventing an alternative history in which the couple were connected by blood and marriage with the existing Imperial family? Which do you think is more likely - that history is wrong or that Ka Apaz, an uneducated woman whose library appears to begin and end with the Bible and the Pasiong Mahal , is inventing it as she goes along? Even if she isn't making a fortune out of credulous fools I'll bet she thoroughly enjoys the attention she's getting in the twilight of her life. The little cult she's created would make an excellent PhD subject for someone...

Has it ever occurred to you that when her followers go home she has a damn good laugh at their expense?

I've already mentioned Carlo Ginzburg's book The Cheese and the Worms. Peace Crusader, I'd advise you to read it too. You'll be struck by the similarities between Ka Apaz and Menocchio, a medieval miller whose unconventional interpretation of the bible and saints' legends led to his being labelled a 'heresiarch' - someone who invented his own heresy - and burned at the stake. How lucky for Ka Apaz that the Church isn't allowed to do that any more!
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Because Jesus was at the center, He had four nails—one each for His hands, and one each for His feet. The fifth nail is for the INRI sign. The name of the thief to the right of Jesus is Dimas. His right foot over his left foot to face the center. The name of the thief to His left is Hestas. His left foot over his right foot also to face the center. They have signs also over their head to identify the condemned persons. Dimas and Hestas each had four nails

Santa Elena, in the fourth century AD, found twelve nails, eight of which were rusty because they had been buried for over three hundred years. Please read #265 on page 7 of this thread.

Why did Santa Elena find only 12 nails? There should be 13. Because one nail had been thrown into the sea during the First Century AD to calm the storm when Pontius Pilate was to be buried.
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Craig B said:
Then one of her four nails must have belonged to the thieves, unless the thief nail was thrown into the sea and performed the miracle of appeasing the storm. But we learn from the Macarius true cross test that only the Jesus things could do miracles. The thieves' crosses couldn't cure anyone by miraculous powers, so I don't suppose their nails could affect the weather.
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Hmm.
Something doesn't add up there, does it?
 
New page, new year, new reminder of PeaceCrusader's lies:

PeaceCrusader said:
20120726.2115

Wednesday, 2012-07-25, has now passed the US. It is Thursday, 07-26, across the US: 7:15am in New York City, 4:15am in Los Angeles, and 1:15am in Honolulu.

The prophecies of the Holy Spirit that the world war which will start from the trouble in the Philippines will occur on a Wednesday and that the 2012 Olympic Games in London will not be held, failed to materialize. Even though the Games will officially open tomorrow, 07-27, I cannot move the goal posts anymore because 07-25 is the last Wednesday for the month of July.

I would like to apologize to all of you. I am deeply sorry. I will refrain from discussing prophecies anymore and be tight-lipped on this. I will reconsider my belief that the Holy Spirit who we are talking to is the true Holy Spirit and so is my belief that Ka Apaz’ physical body is appropriated by this spirit. As I used to say, if we were to believe in a god, we have to be sure that He is the only true God. As God, He must be omniscient. That means, He knows the past, the present, and the future.
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pakeha said:
Have you ever heard of Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, better known as Caligula?
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You can bet your bottom dollar that Ka Apaz hasn't, or at least that she didn't know he was the adopted heir of Tiberius, not Pontius Pilate. This is what happens when uneducated people try to provide information about things they don't understand, such as the geography of England. I suppose we can't blame Ka Apaz for being poor and uneducated (although we can blame her for being a con artist), but Peace Crusader has no such excuse. Instead of using his superior education and computer literacy to check her stories and reject them for the utter tosh they are, he's chosen to rewrite history instead.

Talking about history being turned into mythology, Peace Crusader, did you know that Helena appears as Elen in The Mabinogion, a collection of Welsh legends? In this version of her life story Elen was a British princess courted by the Roman Emperor, who in an attempt to impress his beloved's father constructed a network of roads throughout Britain. I want this lovely little tale to be true so I'm going to rewrite history to make it so. I'll probably get a lot of local support because I live in York, the city in which Constantine was proclaimed Emperor, and - get this - I also live near St Helen's Road! IT'S A SIGN FROM HEAVEN!!!!
 
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Alice Shortcake said:
Talking about history being turned into mythology, Peace Crusader, did you know that Helena appears as Elen in The Mabinogion, a collection of Welsh legends? In this version of her life story Elen was a British princess courted by the Roman Emperor, who in an attempt to impress his beloved's father constructed a network of roads throughout Britain. I want this lovely little tale to be true so I'm going to rewrite history to make it so.
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If you're going to do it the Ka Apaz way you'll need to make her an Eskimo.
 
Yes, I slipped up there. Fortunately the angel Gabriel just appeared to me in a vision, told me that the Mabinogion was not to be relied upon, and revealed that Helena was in fact a 7' 2" Filipina. So I've decided to cancel my "Helena Was British!" campaign.

You know, the more I think about Ka Apaz the more I realize that I've wasted my entire life. I could have become a cult leader merely by whistling under a sheet.
 
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PeaceCrusader said:
Who are you referring to as the “con artist”—the spirit of Ama or Ka Apaz? Why do you, halleyscomet, prefer not to believe in the true God? Ama said that “the people who don’t have faith in God made themselves that way” (original transcription in Filipino, http://aristean.org/transcript063.htm). They are not assigned by God not to believe in Him but they themselves assigned themselves not to believe in God.
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Is it the same Ama who lied to you about the London Olympics?
 
Alice Shortcake said:
Yes, I slipped up there. Fortunately the angel Gabriel just appeared to me in a vision, told me that the Mabinogion was not to be relied upon, and revealed that Helena was in fact a 7' 2" Filipina. So I've decided to cancel my "Helena Was British!" campaign.

You know, the more I think about Ka Apaz the more I realize that I've wasted my entire life. I could have accomplished so much more by simply whistling under a sheet.
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A shame about the cancellation of the "Helena Was British!" campaign.
It would have been a nice excuse to visit the Jorvik Viking Centre and watch the play of light on the Seven Sisters.
 
pakeha said:
A shame about the cancellation of the "Helena Was British!" campaign.
It would have been a nice excuse to visit the Jorvik Viking Centre and watch the play of light on the Seven Sisters.
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See also her wiki biography.
G. K. Chesterton in his book 'A Short History of England' writes that she was considered a Briton by the British, a tradition noted by Geoffrey of Monmouth, whose 12th century Historia Regum Britanniae reports that Helena was a daughter of the British King Coel.
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A daughter of "Old King Cole"! It gets better all the time.
 
pakeha said:
Hmm.
Something doesn't add up there, does it?
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This is the breakdown of the nails including that for the sign:
Dimas – 4
Jesus – 5
Hestas – 4
Total – 13
Less 1 thrown into the sea during First Century AD – 12
Santa Elena found 8 rusty and 4 not rusty nails during the Fourth Century AD.
 
pakeha said:
A shame about the cancellation of the "Helena Was British!" campaign.
It would have been a nice excuse to visit the Jorvik Viking Centre and watch the play of light on the Seven Sisters.
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You can visit York without an excuse, you know. In fact, PLEASE visit York and throw some cash about because tourism is the only industry we've got left.

Craig B said:
See also her wiki biography. A daughter of "Old King Cole"! It gets better all the time.
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Whoa, I'd forgotten about that one! Geoffrey of Monmouth's book is basically a highly entertaining historical novel. Some of his embroideries upon historical fact are almost as dotty as Ka Apaz's.

As for her nonsense about Jesus and his family visiting Jerusalem for a census - Peace Crusader, isn't it more likely that your senile sybil was just confusing the Passover and Nativity stories?
 
PeaceCrusader said:
This is the breakdown of the nails including that for the sign:
Dimas – 4
Jesus – 5
Hestas – 4
Total – 13
Less 1 thrown into the sea during First Century AD – 12
Santa Elena found 8 rusty and 4 not rusty nails during the Fourth Century AD.
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When are you going to comment on this previously posted article from the Catholic Encyclopædia, PeaceCrusader?


Very little reliance can be placed upon the authenticity of the thirty or more holy nails which are still venerated, or which have been venerated until recent times, in such treasuries as that of Santa Croce in Rome, or those of Venice, Aachen, the Escurial, Nuremberg, Prague, etc. Probably the majority began by professing to be facsimiles which had touched or contained filings from some other nail whose claim was more ancient. Without conscious fraud on the part of anyone, it is very easy for imitations in this way to come in a very brief space of time to be reputed originals. The bridle of Constantine is believed to be identical with a relic of this form which for several centuries has been preserved at Carpentras, but there is another claimant of the same kind at Milan. Similarly the diadem of Constantine is asserted to be at Monza, and it has long been known as "the iron crown of Lombardy."
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Just for fun, here's another excerpt from the same source:

The question has long been debated whether Christ was crucified with three or with four nails.
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Link​


Or would you rather deal with the Moorish idiocy first?
 
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Quite, PC.
But, as Craig B pointed out, one of those 4 non-rusty nails was clearly not from Jesus' crucifixion.
 
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