Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Antony]

I saw this too, Bill. This judgment completely undermines any idea that the supreme courts in italy are competent.
It's absolutely sick to suggest that a 60 year old having sex with an 11 year old is not child abuse. Sick.

It really makes you wonder what the judges' own life experiences are, if they imagine that 60-year-old/11-year-old sex is "an amorous relationship".

 

[Bill Williams]

Vogt's repeated bias and spin belie any claims that she is an objective reporter on this case. This is just the latest in a long, sorry line of lies and distortions. It's no wonder that her copy is not being picked up anywhere in the mass media. I continue to wonder whether she knows what she's doing (i.e. actively dissembling and misrepresenting) or whether she is merely too ignorant to know better.

Incidentally, the communications that Vogt has "revealed" in her latest dispatch tell us precisely nothing about the case. They are nothing more or less than the diplomatic and judicial niceties between the US Consulate and the judicial authorities, consisting of a chain of requests for visits to Knox in custody, confirmations of visits, credentials of the local US consul, and other purely bureaucratic exchanges. If anyone thinks that these communications shed any light whatsoever on the case, or on Knox's application to the ECHR, then they are either ignorant or biased (or both).

Barbie Nadeau took a far far better tack in monetizing this whole thing. She behaved herself as a reporter when on CNN, which opened a small door for her.... it was the door of every once in a while she'd be asked to do a short opinion piece.

Then she'd pull out, "Knox isn't telling us everything she knows... " never once telling us what those unknowns might be or why they're important for understanding what happened to Meredith.

Well, ok after the now quashed acquittals, she did write in The Beast those inane ten things Knox still hasn't told us, yet has dropped those ten things......

... cuz leaving it a mystery serves her monetary purpose better.

All this is like catching a wave as a surfer. Andrea is still paddling around searching for hers. Barbie now gets to eat overpriced salads with Kate Bekinsale.

 

[bri1]

It really makes you wonder what the judges' own life experiences are, if they imagine that 60-year-old/11-year-old sex is "an amorous relationship".

Indeed. If I was ILE I'd be getting with the wiretapping. These comments mark the speaker as someone who may well consider abusing children should the opportunity arise.
I can't wait to see if Machiavelli defends this decision!

 

[Bill Williams]

It really makes you wonder what the judges' own life experiences are, if they imagine that 60-year-old/11-year-old sex is "an amorous relationship".

Indeed. If I was ILE I'd be getting with the wiretapping. These comments mark the speaker as someone who may well consider abusing children should the opportunity arise.
I can't wait to see if Machiavelli defends this decision!

We may have seen the last of Machiavelli. For one thing, he seems connected to this new Florence prosecution, and has read the tea leaves.

But even Mach's level of dietrology cannot rescue this decision of Cassazione. How do Italians feel safe in their own country?

 

[bri1]

We may have seen the last of Machiavelli. For one thing, he seems connected to this new Florence prosecution, and has read the tea leaves.

But even Mach's level of dietrology cannot rescue this decision of Cassazione. How do Italians feel safe in their own country?

I really am at a loss. I would love to know who was on that Cassazione panel.
I would not feel ok about any of this if I lived in Italy. Cassazione seem to be ignoring Italy's own laws. The age of consent laws in this case and article 192 in the AK/ RS case with all this 'osmosis' nonsense. Very disturbing.

 

[Antony]

We may have seen the last of Machiavelli. For one thing, he seems connected to this new Florence prosecution, and has read the tea leaves.

Does this mean you see his recent messages as an indication that the Florence court is set to acquit, and that he has advance knowledge?

But even Mach's level of dietrology cannot rescue this decision of Cassazione. How do Italians feel safe in their own country?

Do we know if these were the same judges who annulled Hellman, and cancelled Mignini's conviction? Will the Nencini verdict necessarily be reviewed by the same judges who binned the Hellman acquittals?

 

[Rolfe]

Indeed. If I was ILE I'd be getting with the wiretapping. These comments mark the speaker as someone who may well consider abusing children should the opportunity arise.

I agree. I think anyone who expresses that attitude has put themselves under suspicion of kiddy-fiddling.

Rolfe.

 

[RoseMontague]

I saw this too, Bill. This judgment completely undermines any idea that the supreme courts in italy are competent.
It's absolutely sick to suggest that a 60 year old having sex with an 11 year old is not child abuse. Sick.

Even worse, a 60 year old in a position of trust and authority working in a professional capacity with the child and her family. Wow. Italian law allows weasel room on this?

I am curious if any of the judges on this case also ruled on AK/RS case. I am also curious how those that cheer the absolute correctness of the ISC will respond to this news.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I am curious whether anyone here can see the slightest connection between this case involving 60 year old and Raffaele and Amanda’s ongoing appeal?

 

[Antony]

I am curious whether anyone here can see the slightest connection between this case involving 60 year old and Raffaele and Amanda’s ongoing appeal?

The connection is that it further discredits the Italian Supreme Court - as if the nonsensical and illegal decision to cancel the Hellman acquittals wasn't sufficient in itself.

 

[bri1]

I agree. I think anyone who expresses that attitude has put themselves under suspicion of kiddy-fiddling.

Rolfe.

Yup.

What's clear to me is that there is a substantial cohort of people in Cassazione who don't have the intelligence or sophistication to understand the concept of psychological manipulation.
So, the 11 year old girl thinks that she loves this man, then it must be so. She doesn't view herself as being abused? Then she wasn't.
Amanda said something that wasn't true about Patrick? She must be a liar. She placed herself at the crime scene? Then she must have been there.
Jesus. Christ.
I wish we could send Derren Brown over and get him to hypnotise these judges into at least resigning from their jobs, if not their whole lives.
Rolfe, what do you think would happen in the UK if a high court judge publicly outed themselves as a 9-11 truther?

 

[MDDVS]

I am curious whether anyone here can see the slightest connection between this case involving 60 year old and Raffaele and Amanda’s ongoing appeal?

You mean, a connection other than the fact that they are both decisions by the same court?

 

[Grinder]

I am curious whether anyone here can see the slightest connection between this case involving 60 year old and Raffaele and Amanda’s ongoing appeal?

Assuming the account was reasonably accurate, it would indicate that the ISC is out of contact with reality. The man was found in bed naked with an eleven year old child and had ONLY received a 5 year sentence yet the ISC didn't think that the 'relationship' between the two was considered in the lower court ruling.

In the Kercher case they ruled that contamination must be shown witch indicates they out of contact with DNA protocol and need to prove that contamination couldn't occur.

They also seem to be saying that the defense needs to find the other abettors of Rudy because they had ruled in his case that there were more than one killer even though neither the prosecutor nor the defense had any motivation to argue the opposite in his trial.

Perhaps the little girl in this recent case should be investigated as to whether she is a witch or not. Maybe she was the man's wife in another lifetime.

Coulsdon - I've attempted to give an honest answer. Could you tell me how this ruling doesn't shake your belief that the Italian courts will rule correctly?

 

[bri1]

I am curious whether anyone here can see the slightest connection between a case involving 60 year old and Raffaele and Amanda’s ongoing appeal?

Really, Coulsdon, really?! You can't see any connection at all?!?

I'll explain it then.
Both cases show that members of Cassazione are unable to grasp major psychological concepts such as coercion and psychological manipulation.
In Pietro Lamberti's case, the judges are unable to see the power authority figures can exert, how someone (especially children and young people) could be manipulated into having certain mental states (in this case feelings) or making certain statements (eg I love him).
In AK's case, the judges are unable to see the power authority figures can exert, how someone (especially children and young people) could be manipulated into having certain mental states (in this case memories) or making certain statements (eg I was there and Patrick did it).
See?

 

[MDDVS]

Well, this decision does give more weight to the idea that the supreme court court judges are a bunch of old perverts. "Sex game gone wrong" indeed.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

The connection is that it further discredits the Italian Supreme Court - as if the nonsensical and illegal decision to cancel the Hellman acquittals wasn't sufficient in itself.

Nonetheless the Italian Supreme Court has also stood up to organised crime (mafia) with numerous magistrates and judge’s assassinated over the years with corrupt politicians (Presidents and Prime Ministers) being convicted.

 

[bri1]

Nonetheless the Italian Supreme Court has also stood up to organised crime (mafia) with numerous magistrates and judge’s assassinated over the years with corrupt politicians (Presidents and Prime Ministers) being convicted.

Well, it's perfectly fine that they ignore laws ratified by democratically elected representatives then.
Oh wait.
No it's not.

 

[MDDVS]

Nonetheless the Italian Supreme Court has also stood up to organised crime (mafia) with numerous magistrates and judge’s assassinated over the years with corrupt politicians (Presidents and Prime Ministers) being convicted.

This is ironic coming from the same person who said he couldn't see the connection between the two decisions by the supreme court.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

A general response to various posts.

Looking through the lens of the paedophile case and the views many here have of the annulment of Hellmann’s verdict distorts or ignores the work of Supreme Court, in my opinion.

I don’t see a connection, I can’t say based on the paedophile case what the verdict of Raffaele and Amanda appeal will be.

 

[MDDVS]

A general response to various posts.

Looking through the lens of the paedophile case and the views many here have of the annulment of Hellmann’s verdict distorts or ignores the work of Supreme Court, in my opinion.

I don’t see a connection, I can’t say based on the paedophile case what the verdict of Raffaele and Amanda appeal will be.

You can say what veredict the supreme court wants: a conviction based on the idea that there was a "sex game gone wrong".

It's the same court who wants the acquittal of a 60 years old paedophile because the lower court didn't consider the "amorous relationship" between him and an 11 year old child.

The same supreme court who considers that it is impossible to rape a woman wearing pants.