Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

[Astreja]

The bones have been certified to be the veritable remains of the Prince of Apostles himself, St. Peter. ...Most precious among the relics remaining of Peter’s skeleton in the Vatican are 29 fragments of one of his skulls. (St. Peter’s other skull is preserved in a reliquary at the Cathedral of St. John Lateran.)

Ah. So the Roman Catholic Church was actually founded by Zaphod Beeblebrox, then?

 

[Craig B]

Ah. So the Roman Catholic Church was actually founded by Zaphod Beeblebrox, then?

In Rome there's two Papal cathedrals. So there's got to be two heads of St Peter to go in them. Elementary!

 

[PeaceCrusader]

This would be the Ama who previously lied to you about the London Olympics and you swore not to believe again?


Out of curiosity, how long do you think it would take a "floating nail" to drift from the Mediterranean coast of Judea around the Iberian peninsula and up the seine river - against the current?

Yes, Robrob, it is difficult for a floating nail to travel up the Seine River and against the current. But what I can say is this in Matthew 17:20, 19:26; Mark 10:27; Luke 1:37, 18:27 – “With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” In the first place, how can an iron nail float?

Please read the “Coincidences in my life – Part 1” (to Part 6) in http://aristean.org/wp093.htm (to wp098).

 

[Astreja]

In Rome there's two Papal cathedrals. So there's got to be two heads of St Peter to go in them. Elementary!

Of course! How else could St. Peter be the head of both cathedrals?

 

[Craig B]

Of course! How else could St. Peter be the head of both cathedrals?

He could commute, I suppose. Number 3 tram and change to 19 at Porta Maggiore, but it's a hassle.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Thanks, PC.
I'd question that story because Paris isn't between Spain and Judea.
I haven't seen any legend about st James ever having been in Paris.

We've gone over just how garbled that devotional text is, even to misrendering the saint's name Santiago.

There are more errors, in your time line.you know.
The dates for Tiberius Ceasar's reign are wrong, as are the dates for the governorship of Pontius Pilate.


Once I've posted this, I'll send off cases of Dom as needed.

Santiago de Galicia is not the Patron Saint of the city of Manila. He is the Patron Saint of a ward or village in Sta. Cruz district in Manila where I grew up.

Saint James in Paris lends credibility to the story of the spirit of Ama that the floating nail thrown into the sea off Israel’s coast after throwing the corpse of Pontius Pilate. This happened after the crucifixion of Jesus and that it was Saint James who Christianized Spain.

Using the current year where Jesus was supposed to be born in 1 BC, the 22-year reign of Emperor Tiberius Caesar was from 13 AD to 34 AD and that of his adopted son, Pontius Pilate’s 10-year reign as Governor of Judea, was from 27 AD to 36 AD. Please read http://aristean.org/wp055.htm titled “Timeline during the time of Jesus”. I maybe off by one year. Please check the data.

Why do I give such “strange dates”? Because I am sure that the revelations of Ama are true and correct. I found the year of the birth of Jesus to be 33 BC 05-23 and His death, 1 BC 08-17.

 

[Astreja]

Yes, Robrob, it is difficult for a floating nail to travel up the Seine River and against the current. But what I can say is this in Matthew 17:20, 19:26; Mark 10:27; Luke 1:37, 18:27 – “With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”

Then why can't your god bring us convincing evidence for your assertions, Aristeo?

In the first place, how can an iron nail float?

I'd be more interested in knowing this:

• Why didn't it corrode away to nothing in the ocean due to the effects of the salt water?
• How was it recognized as a special nail (one used in the CruciFiction) when it was supposedly found in France? What if it was just an ordinary nail dropped by a local workman?

 

[Craig B]

... Why do I give such “strange dates”? Because I am sure that the revelations of Ama are true and correct. I found the year of the birth of Jesus to be 33 BC 05-23 and His death, 1 BC 08-17.

You are willing to change Roman chronology, sustained by heaps of evidence, including irrefutable astronomical evidence, by more than 30 years, because you regard as infallible the utterances of a person who tells you that iron nails can float up rivers, and who in any case has made a known false prediction about a nuclear war? If God can do anything, why can't he stop Ama from making false predictions and spouting absurd stories?

 

[Mojo]

I do not have any evidence that these natural disasters actually occurred. The spirit of Ama revealed these. And since I believe that Ama is the spirit of Jesus Christ and is God, they must actually have occurred.

"Ama" was, according to you, revealed as a false prophet when the prophecy about the 2012 Olympics failed. This means that, according to your own beliefs, things reported by "Ama" need not actually have occurred.

 

[pakeha]

All right. Let's go along with the idea that James the Lesser went up to Lutetia, and found the nail swimming in the river. What happened in the 300 years between this event and when that part of France actually became christian? Did the nail just lie around somewhere waiting for better times?

Details, details.

...Any clues as to how a ushabti managed to acquire the rights and privileges of a Roman citizen?

Of course, O Pharaoh, golems are but the reed-cutters' distorted understanding of ushabtis.

Ah. So the Roman Catholic Church was actually founded by Zaphod Beeblebrox, then?

Thanks for giving me a hint for next week's public transport reading material, o goddess!

Santiago de Galicia is not the Patron Saint of the city of Manila. He is the Patron Saint of a ward or village in Sta. Cruz district in Manila where I grew up.

Saint James in Paris lends credibility to the story of the spirit of Ama that the floating nail thrown into the sea off Israel’s coast after throwing the corpse of Pontius Pilate. This happened after the crucifixion of Jesus and that it was Saint James who Christianized Spain. ...

You're quite right about Santiago de Galicia, PC, though as far as I know he isn't actually a recognised saint.
Something along the lines of San Andres de Teixido.

 

[Astreja]

Saint James in Paris lends credibility to the story...

Actually, Aristeo, the fact that there is no other record of St. James ever being in Paris completely destroys the credibility of the story. The fact that Paris wasn't even there at the time is just icing on the cake.

It's all made up by the scam artist Maria Alvaran. It's patently ridiculous, it's twisted and amateurish, it flies in the face of established history and Bible scholarship, and I'm so sure that it never happened that I would stake My very life on it.

I'm not joking.

Your story is far, far too absurd to be taken seriously, Aristeo. It's one excuse after another after another. In order to support the tottering corners of this massive heap of fiction, more fiction has to be created to explain it. Is that what you want -- To devote your remaining years to a fiction?

 

[Mojo]

Why do I give such “strange dates”? Because I am sure that the revelations of Ama are true and correct. I found the year of the birth of Jesus to be 33 BC 05-23 and His death, 1 BC 08-17.

You give strange dates because "Ama" got her maths wrong in an old recording.

 

[Alice Shortcake]

Peace Crusader, has it ever occurred to you that there may be a good reason why Ama says such outlandish things - because she's making them up?

The confusion between John the Baptist and John the Evangelist on which you've constructed an elaborate fantasy is fairly common amongst poorly educated people. I'd love to be a fly on the wall if Ama ever chose to share this story with a priest or anyone else with a basic knowledge of Christian theology and history. Do you seriously believe that the gospel authors would have left out the bit about Jesus re-attaching John's severed head? It's so much more dramatic than the resurrection of Lazarus!

As for the mind-boggling 'clay Pontius Pilate' story, I'm fairly well read in the legends of the saints and Christian iconography but I'd never come across anything like it (although, as has already been mentioned, there is a legend in The Infancy Gospel of Thomas about the young Jesus making birds out of clay):

II. 1 This little child Jesus when he was five years old was playing at the ford of a brook: and he gathered together the waters that flowed there into pools, and made them straightway clean, and commanded them by his word alone. 2 And having made soft clay, he fashioned thereof twelve sparrows. And it was the Sabbath when he did these things (or made them). And there were also many other little children playing with him.

3 And a certain Jew when he saw what Jesus did, playing upon the Sabbath day, departed straightway and told his father Joseph: Lo, thy child is at the brook, and he hath taken clay and fashioned twelve little birds, and hath polluted the Sabbath day. 4 And Joseph came to the place and saw: and cried out to him, saying: Wherefore doest thou these things on the Sabbath, which it is not lawful to do? But Jesus clapped his hands together and cried out to the sparrows and said to them: Go! and the sparrows took their flight and went away chirping. 5 And when the Jews saw it they were amazed, and departed and told their chief men that which they had seen Jesus do.
http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

By the way, you also quoted this:

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader
Christianity, in Exodus 20, says, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”

Doesn't making a human being (or sparrows) out of clay count as making "a likeness of any thing...that is in the earth beneath?"

Oddly enough, when I googled 'Pontius Pilate golem' I found this excerpt from Anna K Dick's self-published novel The God Virus: The Pontius Pilate Report:

"Be that as it may," Tom went on, "Abbe Boudet was sure the Pontius Pilate report was in the Synagogue, because of the Golem."

"The Golem?" Camilla asked. "Isn't that the Jewish myth about a man-like monster made out of clay that was brought to life by writing a verse from the Bible on its forehead?"
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...onepage&q=pontius pilate made of clay&f=false

It turns out that Rabbi Loew, the alleged maker of the Golem, did in fact have a powerful secret weapon with which to protect the Jew of Prague. It wasn't a clay monster but...(dramatic drumroll)... the Pontius Pilate Report, a document revealing that the whole Jesus story was a myth which the Rabbi used to blackmail the Catholic Church into leaving the Jews of Prague in peace. I was beginning to wonder if the book, or a garbled account of its plot, could have influenced Ama's story when I noticed the publication date - 25th November 2013.

Oh well, back to the drawing board!

Peace Crusader, you've also compared the forthcoming outbreak of World War III over the Spratley Islands with the outbreak of World War I over the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. You implied that no-one could have predicted the latter because Sarajevo was a relatively minor, out-of-the-way spot like the Spratley Islands. I can understand Ama being ignorant enough to believe this, but surely you must know that the Balkans in 1914 were a powder keg, just like the Middle East is today. Please read one of the many excellent books about the causes of World War I.

Finally, somewhere or other you asked "who would have believed that a cat could play the piano?" or words to that effect. I can't remember when or where it was, but if you were referring to the famous Nora I've got news for you - she doesn't actually play recognizable tunes!

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Actually, Aristeo, the fact that there is no other record of St. James ever being in Paris completely destroys the credibility of the story. The fact that Paris wasn't even there at the time is just icing on the cake.

It's all made up by the scam artist Maria Alvaran. It's patently ridiculous, it's twisted and amateurish, it flies in the face of established history and Bible scholarship, and I'm so sure that it never happened that I would stake My very life on it.

I'm not joking.

Your story is far, far too absurd to be taken seriously, Aristeo. It's one excuse after another after another. In order to support the tottering corners of this massive heap of fiction, more fiction has to be created to explain it. Is that what you want -- To devote your remaining years to a fiction?

Who told you, Astreja, that “Paris wasn’t even there at the time”? Check Wikipedia, history of Paris.

It is just logical that before proceeding to Spain, Saint James went first to Paris. Check your map and see where Judaea and Spain are. Also, how come that first nail was in the church of Carpentras in France?

If you cannot find the travel of Saint James to Paris is maybe because he was an obscure itinerant preacher then. We have a spirit who lived before and who knows each of us. He is the One who revealed about the floating nail and Saint James. I am just sharing to you what He revealed. It is up to you whether you will accept wholly or partially His revelations, or completely reject what He said.

 

[Robrob]

Yes, Robrob, it is difficult for a floating nail to travel up the Seine River and against the current. But what I can say is this in Matthew 17:20, 19:26; Mark 10:27; Luke 1:37, 18:27 – “With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”

Special pleading.

In the first place, how can an iron nail float?

It can't. Your story is based on a lie.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

You are willing to change Roman chronology, sustained by heaps of evidence, including irrefutable astronomical evidence, by more than 30 years, because you regard as infallible the utterances of a person who tells you that iron nails can float up rivers, and who in any case has made a known false prediction about a nuclear war? If God can do anything, why can't he stop Ama from making false predictions and spouting absurd stories?

Yes, Craig B, I will change Roman chronology by more than 30 years. Why? Because people think that since Exodus, the Jews had been using a lunisolar calendar (like what is being used now). They do not know that it was only when the Jews were exiled in Babylon in the 7th century BC that they learned about the Babylonian lunisolar calendar. During the time of Jesus, the Jews were using two types of calendars—a purely lunar calendar and a lunisolar calendar.

Why can’t God stop the spirit of Ama? Because Ama is Jesus Christ Himself. And Jesus Christ is God. Believe it or not.

 

[Akhenaten]

Who told you, Astreja, that “Paris wasn’t even there at the time”? Check Wikipedia, history of Paris.

The small settlement of Lutetia may have been there, but Paris certainly wasn't.

It is just logical that before proceeding to Spain, Saint James went first to Paris.

Balderdash. It would be hundreds of kilometres out of the way just to visit an obscure village.

And in any case, how do you even know he went to Spain?

Check your map and see where Judaea and Spain are.

Yes, I have, and it's pretty hard to miss that they are seamlessly connected by the Mediterranean Sea.

Any clues in that for you?

Also, how come that first nail was in the church of Carpentras in France?

Because it's a fairytale (at best) and anything can be anywhere on the strength of whim.

As the Catholic Encyclopædia says:

Very little reliance can be placed upon the authenticity of the thirty or more holy nails which are still venerated, or which have been venerated until recent times, in such treasuries as that of Santa Croce in Rome, or those of Venice, Aachen, Escurial, Nuremberg, Prague, etc. Probably the majority began by professing to be facsimiles which had touched or contained filings from some other nail whose claim was more ancient. It is conceivable that imitations in this way may have come in a very brief space of time to be reputed originals.

Pharaoh's highlighting​

If you cannot find the travel of Saint James to Paris is maybe because he was an obscure itinerant preacher then.

Which means that (even if such a character existed) nobody knows where he went or what he did. This includes you and your crone.

We have a spirit who lived before and who knows each of us. He is the One who revealed about the floating nail and Saint James. I am just sharing to you what He revealed.

There is no such spirit. Just an old crone with a frighteningly gullible audience.

It is up to you whether you will accept wholly or partially His revelations, or completely reject what He said.

Stop preaching.

 

[Akhenaten]

Yes, Craig B, I will change Roman chronology by more than 30 years. Why?

In order to force fit history to the mistakes made by your crone.

Because people think that since Exodus, the Jews had been using a lunisolar calendar (like what is being used now).

Apart from anything else, the events described in Exodus never happened, so your version of history is borked from the outset.

They do not know that it was only when the Jews were exiled in Babylon in the 7th century BC that they learned about the Babylonian lunisolar calendar.

"They"?

During the time of Jesus, the Jews were using two types of calendars—a purely lunar calendar and a lunisolar calendar.

So bloody what?

We still use two types of calendar - the Julian and the Gregorian. And yet we still manage to figure out what year it is and what is the date.

Why can’t God stop the spirit of Ama?

Because neither exists.

Because Ama is Jesus Christ Himself. And Jesus Christ is God. Believe it or not.

Nobody believes you, and nobody ever will. Why do you persist?

 

[Robrob]

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader
Because Ama is Jesus Christ Himself. And Jesus Christ is God. Believe it or not.

This is the same Ama who lied to you about the London Olympics?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Peace Crusader, has it ever occurred to you that there may be a good reason why Ama says such outlandish things - because she's making them up?

The confusion between John the Baptist and John the Evangelist on which you've constructed an elaborate fantasy is fairly common amongst poorly educated people. I'd love to be a fly on the wall if Ama ever chose to share this story with a priest or anyone else with a basic knowledge of Christian theology and history. Do you seriously believe that the gospel authors would have left out the bit about Jesus re-attaching John's severed head? It's so much more dramatic than the resurrection of Lazarus!

I would like to refer you to King Herod beheading John the Baptist in Matthew 14:1-12; Mark 6:14-29; and Luke 9:7-9. How is Jesus related to John the Baptist? Who is the disciple who was with His mother at the crucifixion site (John 19:26-27)?