Ed Responsible electric car driver jailed for stealing.

[Brian-M]

I was looking at getting a plug-in car, it was difficult to get a fix on how much it would cost to fully charge it.

But the other question is, how long would he have been able to leave it there? I think if you're going to charge a car from a normal wall socket, you have to leave it overnight because it can't supply enough power for a quick charge.

Assuming that the car was drawing 1000W from the socket, that means he's costing them about 15 cents worth of electricity per hour (I looked up the price of electricity in the area, it varies between 14 an a5 cents per kilowatt-hour).

So in order to steal an entire dollar's worth of electricity, he'd have to leave the car plugged in for more than six and a half hours.

So even if his kid's sporting event had lasted six hours, the school wouldn't be out by as much as a dollar by the time he returned to his car.

(I'm not saying that plugging it in without permission is acceptable, only that it shouldn't have resulted in more than a warning not to do it again.)

 

[DC]

According to the story linked in the OP it was a nickel's worth of electricity (5 cents). That's just an approximation in the story.

As far as I can see, he wasn't sentenced to jail time but he was arrested and held in jail overnight. Unless there is a lot more to the story (for example that he was requested to attend a police station and failed to do so resulting in an arrest warrant being issued - or there's some kind of local zero-tolerance to petty theft), the punishment does seem out of kilter with the crime.

well if he had to spend a night in jail for not showing up at a Police Station, i have no Problem, but that is not what is reportet in the link. and even if ist only a night it seems to be extreme. a fine would do it. like ti is with People stealing stuf in Shops.

 

[The Don]

well if he had to spend a night in jail for not showing up at a Police Station, i have no Problem, but that is not what is reportet in the link. and even if ist only a night it seems to be extreme. a fine would do it. like ti is with People stealing stuf in Shops.

Exactly....which is why I said "unless there's something more to the story"

It seems that a lot (all ?) of the stories have come from the same source given how similar they are. It seems that Kaveh Kamooneh is the source of the story so maybe he has not released all aspects at this time.

edited to add.....

this story has a little more detail..

http://www.11alive.com/news/article...-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice

Sgt. Ford says the officer should have arrested Kamooneh on the spot. But he didn't. Instead, the officer filed a police report. Then 11 days passed, and two deputies showed up at his house in Decatur.

"They arrested me here at about eight o'clock at night," Kamooneh said.

Ford said he sought the arrest warrant after determining that school officials hadn't given Kamooneh permission to plug in his car.

interestingly, a 911 call was made which seems a little peculiar, maybe it's because Kaveh Kamooneh looks a bit Middle Eastern and he was messing around with a cable near a school

We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school.

Who dials 911 over something so trivial ?

Then again Kaveh Kamooneh seems to to have made things easy for himself:

he officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door.

Which does not condone the actions of Sgt Ford but I can understand why the full letter of the law was applied.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Why is dangerous electricity easily accessible at a middle school? Will nobody think of the children? Electricity can kill! It should be locked up in a safe and only accessible by the principal or other authorized person in an emergency. Anything else is just directly advocating for children to be electrocuted to death.

 

[Hungry81]

Exactly....which is why I said "unless there's something more to the story"

It seems that a lot (all ?) of the stories have come from the same source given how similar they are. It seems that Kaveh Kamooneh is the source of the story so maybe he has not released all aspects at this time.

edited to add.....

this story has a little more detail..

http://www.11alive.com/news/article...-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice




interestingly, a 911 call was made which seems a little peculiar, maybe it's because Kaveh Kamooneh looks a bit Middle Eastern and he was messing around with a cable near a school



Who dials 911 over something so trivial ?

Then again Kaveh Kamooneh seems to to have made things easy for himself:



Which does not condone the actions of Sgt Ford but I can understand why the full letter of the law was applied.

Sounds like they should have charged the person who misused the 911 hotline. Tell the guy he can't do it and bill him. Arresting someone for that, especially 11 days later is a bit silly.

 

[angrysoba]

Why is dangerous electricity easily accessible at a middle school? Will nobody think of the children? Electricity can kill! It should be locked up in a safe and only accessible by the principal or other authorized person in an emergency. Anything else is just directly advocating for children to be electrocuted to death.

I know this may be a joke, but I would bet someone could make a court case out of this incident.

 

[DC]

Exactly....which is why I said "unless there's something more to the story"

It seems that a lot (all ?) of the stories have come from the same source given how similar they are. It seems that Kaveh Kamooneh is the source of the story so maybe he has not released all aspects at this time.

edited to add.....

this story has a little more detail..

http://www.11alive.com/news/article...-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice




interestingly, a 911 call was made which seems a little peculiar, maybe it's because Kaveh Kamooneh looks a bit Middle Eastern and he was messing around with a cable near a school



Who dials 911 over something so trivial ?

Then again Kaveh Kamooneh seems to to have made things easy for himself:



Which does not condone the actions of Sgt Ford but I can understand why the full letter of the law was applied.

aah that's very interesting, not being cooperative is never a good way to deal with the police. especially if you are in the wrong, even if its such a trivial case.
thanks for the more detailed story

 

[Cuddles]

Not much different than plugging in smart phones and laptops.

There's quite a difference between charging a 1Wh phone battery and a 24kWh car battery. A school might not mind if I have a quick drink from a water fountain, but they probably wouldn't want me to drag a hose over there and use it to fill my bath. From the article:

Kamooneh's arrest appears to be the first of an EV owner for supposedly stealing energy, a crime usually pursued only on the level of entire homes sucking illicit electrons.

According to Ofgem, the average home in the UK uses around 3,300 kWh of electricity per year. An electric car which gets charged a couple of times a week is equivalent to an entire household's electricity use. Far from indicating prosecuting such a crime is silly on the face of it, the comparison of electric cars to homes seems entirely appropriate.

Has anyone seen a picture of the charging station in question?

The article says it was an "external power outlet", which suggests to me he just plugged into a normal socket rather than there being a dedicated charging station for cars.

As far as I can see, he wasn't sentenced to jail time but he was arrested and held in jail overnight. Unless there is a lot more to the story (for example that he was requested to attend a police station and failed to do so resulting in an arrest warrant being issued - or there's some kind of local zero-tolerance to petty theft), the punishment does seem out of kilter with the crime.

Several people have said that last part, but as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to have been any punishment at all yet. The man was arrested. There is no mention of him having been tried and sentenced. Spending a short time in jail while the police deal with your arrest is not particularly unusual, and has nothing to do with your eventual punishment or even whether you're guilty or not. That does unfortunately mean that entirely innocent people can spend time in jail while things are being processed, but it's nothing to do with punishing them.

However if electric autos become widespread...social precedents will need to be set.

More importantly, legal precedents. I completely agree with the general sentiment that stealing such a small amount doesn't exactly warrant the death penalty. But small amounts add up, and electric cars don't actually use particularly small amounts in the first place. Sure, the school could have afforded a few cents that this guy used. But if they say he's free to use their electricity, what happens when a bunch more people want to do so as well? They certainly can't afford to let everyone charge their cars, so a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Shoplifting seems a reasonable analogy. Charging a phone is equivalent to smelling food while walking around a shop. Technically you're taking away part of the food, but it's such an unmeasurably small amount that no-one has any reason to care. But if I take so much as a single grape, I am stealing and will likely be prosecuted for doing so. Sure, it's only a small crime that doesn't call for a huge penalty, but it's still noticeable and it's the principle that matters. That one grape isn't going to bankrupt the store, but if you let everyone take one pretty soon you'll end up with no food left to sell.

 

[DC]

There's quite a difference between charging a 1Wh phone battery and a 24kWh car battery. A school might not mind if I have a quick drink from a water fountain, but they probably wouldn't want me to drag a hose over there and use it to fill my bath. From the article:

According to Ofgem, the average home in the UK uses around 3,300 kWh of electricity per year. An electric car which gets charged a couple of times a week is equivalent to an entire household's electricity use. Far from indicating prosecuting such a crime is silly on the face of it, the comparison of electric cars to homes seems entirely appropriate.



The article says it was an "external power outlet", which suggests to me he just plugged into a normal socket rather than there being a dedicated charging station for cars.



Several people have said that last part, but as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to have been any punishment at all yet. The man was arrested. There is no mention of him having been tried and sentenced. Spending a short time in jail while the police deal with your arrest is not particularly unusual, and has nothing to do with your eventual punishment or even whether you're guilty or not. That does unfortunately mean that entirely innocent people can spend time in jail while things are being processed, but it's nothing to do with punishing them.



More importantly, legal precedents. I completely agree with the general sentiment that stealing such a small amount doesn't exactly warrant the death penalty. But small amounts add up, and electric cars don't actually use particularly small amounts in the first place. Sure, the school could have afforded a few cents that this guy used. But if they say he's free to use their electricity, what happens when a bunch more people want to do so as well? They certainly can't afford to let everyone charge their cars, so a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Shoplifting seems a reasonable analogy. Charging a phone is equivalent to smelling food while walking around a shop. Technically you're taking away part of the food, but it's such an unmeasurably small amount that no-one has any reason to care. But if I take so much as a single grape, I am stealing and will likely be prosecuted for doing so. Sure, it's only a small crime that doesn't call for a huge penalty, but it's still noticeable and it's the principle that matters. That one grape isn't going to bankrupt the store, but if you let everyone take one pretty soon you'll end up with no food left to sell.

But small amounts add up

 

[WildCat]

Why is dangerous electricity easily accessible at a middle school? Will nobody think of the children? Electricity can kill! It should be locked up in a safe and only accessible by the principal or other authorized person in an emergency. Anything else is just directly advocating for children to be electrocuted to death.

Now you sound like a union electrician.

 

[Cuddles]

But small amounts add up

You might want to try actually reading the post before making such stupid comments.

it's such an unmeasurably small amount that no-one has any reason to care.

When one thing is over 20,000 times smaller than another, it makes absolutely no sense to pretend they are equivalent.

 

[DC]

You might want to try actually reading the post before making such stupid comments.


When one thing is over 20,000 times smaller than another, it makes absolutely no sense to pretend they are equivalent.

that stupid comment was your exact words.


I never said they are equivalent.
I did read your post, I agreed with it mostly, but don't see why a school or anyone should not care if mobile phones get charged on their bill. a lot lot more people have Mobile phones than electric cars.
and as you yourself said, But small amounts add up, yes they do, also for phones or any device that can be recharged.
for cars you see the problem if they alow it to him, others might show up and also want to recharge their car, but the same goes for mobile phones, if its ok for one, others might show up and want also to recharge their phone.
and as there are a huge lot more phones than electric cars, the chance is even higher.

 

[Brian-M]

When one thing is over 20,000 times smaller than another, it makes absolutely no sense to pretend they are equivalent.

I think you've misplaced a couple of zeros there. A car drawing 1000 watts from a standard 115v outlet is only 200 times more than an iPhone drawing 5 watts. It's not 20,000 times the difference.

But I suppose even 200 times difference is significant. If someone in a grocery store ate a single grape without paying for it, it's likely that nobody would care. But if that same person stood there and started eating 200 grapes without paying... the store manager might get annoyed with them.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Not much different than plugging in smart phones and laptops. However if electric autos become widespread...social precedents will need to be set.

laptops and smart phones ok....cars = jail

What if it was water? What if he he had a real car and took some water to put in his radiator?

What if he actually drank some of the water?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Like all environmentalists he probably thinks his farts don't smell. **** him. If he got what he REALLY deserved, then he'd have AIDs.

You should be thrown in jail. Your farts smell so bad, even China complains about the air pollution they cause.

 

[joesixpack]

The arrest was an absurd misuse of police resources. The officer should be arrested for wasting far more than a nickel.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Why is dangerous electricity easily accessible at a middle school? Will nobody think of the children? Electricity can kill! It should be locked up in a safe and only accessible by the principal or other authorized person in an emergency. Anything else is just directly advocating for children to be electrocuted to death.

Monkey's post, while sarcastic, actually brings up an extremely important point.

Part of my job involves inspecting the physical condition of various systems in buildings. I do a lot of work for several very large school districts and have inspected hundreds of schools. I have never seen a school building with an exterior outlet. In fact, I can not imagine why a school would even want an exterior outlet. The liability issues alone would dictate against that.

School buildings are not subject to the same codes that residences are.

 

[The Don]

Several people have said that last part, but as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to have been any punishment at all yet. The man was arrested. There is no mention of him having been tried and sentenced. Spending a short time in jail while the police deal with your arrest is not particularly unusual, and has nothing to do with your eventual punishment or even whether you're guilty or not. That does unfortunately mean that entirely innocent people can spend time in jail while things are being processed, but it's nothing to do with punishing them.

Of course you're quite correct. IMO his treatment to date was certainly out of kilter with the alleged crime. The arrest warrant, being held overnight while the paperwork is processed sounds more like the way in which a dangerous suspect would be treated or someone who is a significant flight risk.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Perhaps I am from a different generation, but I would not assume that an electric outlet is fair game for my personal use, whether for a phone, radio, computer, car, or whatever. Same would apply to WiFi. Same would apply to a water outlet. Same would apply to restroom facilities.

At airports, for example, there are facilities specifically established for public consumption, which one need not ask to use. There are also facilities NOT established for public consumption that would be inappropriate to use without permission, even though it's the same electricity, water, and/or plumbing.

That something's cost is insignificant is not (IMHO) a reasonable justification for taking it. Just because it's not nailed down or secured does not make it yours or mine for the taking.

 

[joesixpack]

That something's cost is insignificant is not (IMHO) a reasonable justification for taking it. Just because it's not nailed down or secured does not make it yours or mine for the taking.

So self-righteousness aside, you think a night in jail was appropriate?

No one's arguing that he should be allowed to take whatever electricity he can, the issue is the arrest. I'm more concerned about the waste of resources represented by a cop with a bug up his ass than I am about plugging in a car.