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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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wrs said:
I hadn't noticed this even though you bolded it:....this is insane......that transaction is a sham, it's a lie......a fraud....fraudulent transactions.....
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You generate a lot of confusion, dude. You realize withdrawals are in a currency on cash side of an account and are not related to date of an auction trade?

Nope, guess not. So stop pushing nonsense about stuff you don't understand.
 
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jhunter1163 said:
So the implication is that these big Bitcoin holders couldn't sell if they wanted to, because no buyer is stupid enough to put $10 million into an about-to-pop bubble. Got it.
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I don't know why you make such a big noise about the limits of bitcoin exchanges. It's quite ho-hum if you think about it for a second.

If I were to try and sell 10,000 BTC all at once there is no way that I would suddenly be $10,000,000 richer. More likely, I would trigger a wave of panic selling that might cause a price collapse. That's investing 101 and the major bitcoin holders know this. By the same token, I am not about to trust a third party repository with 10,000 of my BTC no matter how tightly they have it packed together.

And if I were to sell an expensive property (worth say, several hundred thousand dollars) directly for bitcoins, I would expect a substantial discount on the bitcoin price (at least 50%). That again is investing 101.

OTOH, given that there are far more "bids" than "asks" for bitcoins, the MtGox limits would keep me in the lap of luxury for a long time to come.
 
psionl0 said:
I don't know why you make such a big noise about the limits of bitcoin exchanges. It's quite ho-hum if you think about it for a second.

If I were to try and sell 10,000 BTC all at once there is no way that I would suddenly be $10,000,000 richer. More likely, I would trigger a wave of panic selling that might cause a price collapse. That's investing 101 and the major bitcoin holders know this. By the same token, I am not about to trust a third party repository with 10,000 of my BTC no matter how tightly they have it packed together.

And if I were to sell an expensive property (worth say, several hundred thousand dollars) directly for bitcoins, I would expect a substantial discount on the bitcoin price (at least 50%). That again is investing 101.

OTOH, given that there are far more "bids" than "asks" for bitcoins, the MtGox limits would keep me in the lap of luxury for a long time to come.
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This is exactly the point. The Bitwhales (hat tip to remirol for that term) know that there's probably not $5 million in liquidity in the world available for them to cash out on, no matter how much their BTC is worth on paper. Their strategy seems to be to artificially prop the price up via sham transactions between their own wallets, and gradually milk the latecomers for as much as they can.
 
jhunter1163 said:
This is exactly the point. The Bitwhales (hat tip to remirol for that term) know that there's probably not $5 million in liquidity in the world available for them to cash out on, no matter how much their BTC is worth on paper. Their strategy seems to be to artificially prop the price up via sham transactions between their own wallets, and gradually milk the latecomers for as much as they can.
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Now you are posting sheer nonsense! The laws of supply and demand weren't invented just for bitcoin. They apply to every single stock or commodity in the world.

You are implying that major bitcoin holders hold secret meetings among themselves and discuss making artificial bids to push the bitcoin prices higher. Of course, the bitcoin exchanges are in on this plot by setting artificially low withdrawal limits. This is a post that belongs in the conspiracy theory section.
 
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Belz... said:
I was just pointing out why other people don't take you seriously.

Corn flakes.
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Strokes/Folks. I dont take anybody seriously who doesn't get what Tippit does. Let us compare Tippit's Greenspan's essay quote with his book-selling nonsense on Bloomberg TV yesterday

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...e-worth-something-it-must-be-backed-something

"In order for currencies to be 'exchangeable' they have to be backed by something," is the remarkably ironic initial comment from none other than debaser-of-the-entirely-fiat-dollar Alan Greenspan when asked about the "bubble in bitcoin," by Bloomberg TV's Trish Regan.
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with regards volatility, the generally accepted market truism is that if somethings falls 20% from the highs, it has now "entered a bear market" BTC can enter a bear market twice over before lunch and be making new highs again 3 days later.

So it was once again back "in a bear market" again this morning for an hour or so, but is still trading still well within it's channel expectations currently

bear-n-back.jpg
 
mhaze said:
You generate a lot of confusion, dude. You realize withdrawals are in a currency on cash side of an account and are not related to date of an auction trade?

Nope, guess not. So stop pushing nonsense about stuff you don't understand.
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I trade stocks and I understand if I can't liquidate my holdings off the trading platform after the trade settles, there isn't any liquidity, this thing is a fraud. In the stock market a trade settles in three days. In bitfraud it appears to be a settle right away because no money is exchanged but the trading platform has no ability to liquidate your trades so it's a sham trade, it never really happened. The price isn't based on ability to pay, it's just nonsense. The exchange is responsible for the providing liquidity to settle all trades this MtGox has admitted they cannot. GIGO

OBTW, it just crashed $350 in two hours again, yeah that is real stability. Who will hold the worthless hot potato last? That is the game now. Crash is on again.
 

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kevsta said:
with regards volatility, the generally accepted market truism is that if somethings falls 20% from the highs, it has now "entered a bear market" BTC can enter a bear market twice over before lunch and be making new highs again 3 days later.

So it was once again back "in a bear market" again this morning for an hour or so, but is still trading still well within it's channel expectations currently

[qimg]http://www.seoibiza.com/company/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/bear-n-back.jpg[/qimg]
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If real money were being exchanged, this couldn't happen. It's a fraud.
 
TeapotCavalry said:
In that sense, no real money ever changes hands when I pay with my debit card for groceries. It's just numbers moving around.

And you do realize MtGox is just one marketplace? Their inadequacy to meet the withdrawal demand is more an issue with MtGox than indicative of anything about bitcoin.

If you are concerned about withdrawals, there's plenty of providers that can cater for your particular needs. For example kraken.com is good for SEPA deposits/withdrawals, with 20 000 USD daily limit.
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Kraken has miniscule volume compared to Mt Gox. I don't believe they have any greater ability to liquidate 10,000 BTC than Mt Gox. I don't see any information on their site about deposits/withdrawals. If you have it, post a link if you can.
 
psionl0 said:
Now you are posting sheer nonsense! The laws of supply and demand weren't invented just for bitcoin. They apply to every single stock or commodity in the world.

You are implying that major bitcoin holders hold secret meetings among themselves and discuss making artificial bids to push the bitcoin prices higher. Of course, the bitcoin exchanges are in on this plot by setting artificially low withdrawal limits. This is a post that belongs in the conspiracy theory section.
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That is exactly what the trades at Mt Gox appear to be. If you can't liquidate your trade, it's a sham.
 
wrs said:
That is exactly what the trades at Mt Gox appear to be. If you can't liquidate your trade, it's a sham.
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Have you got any evidence that people are trying to sell tens of thousands of BTC at a time and not being able to collect or is that just part of the conspiracy theory that you have concocted?
 
psionl0 said:
Have you got any evidence that people are trying to sell tens of thousands of BTC at a time and not being able to collect or is that just part of the conspiracy theory that you have concocted?
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The fact that withdrawal requests are three weeks behind from when the price was $375 tells me this. Did you not read my post or are you simply ignoring the evidence?
 
psionl0 said:
Have you got any evidence that people are trying to sell tens of thousands of BTC at a time and not being able to collect or is that just part of the conspiracy theory that you have concocted?
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Even 1,000 BTC is beyond the ability of Mt. Gox to liquidate, at current prices. There's a reason that it takes weeks to get your USD if you want to cash out; the reason is that the exchanges don't have the liquidity to pay you, and have to wait for people to buy in. Classic Ponzi scheme, really.
 
wrs said:
I trade stocks and I understand if I can't liquidate my holdings off the trading platform after the trade settles, there isn't any liquidity, this thing is a fraud. In the stock market a trade settles in three days. In bitfraud it appears to be a settle right away because no money is exchanged but the trading platform has no ability to liquidate your trades so it's a sham trade, it never really happened. The price isn't based on ability to pay, it's just nonsense. The exchange is responsible for the providing liquidity to settle all trades this MtGox has admitted they cannot. GIGO

OBTW, it just crashed $350 in two hours again, yeah that is real stability. Who will hold the worthless hot potato last? That is the game now. Crash is on again.
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I think MtGox is doing pretty good, considering the difficulties that they deal which which you acknowledge.

jhunter1163 said:
Even 1,000 BTC is beyond the ability of Mt. Gox to liquidate, at current prices. There's a reason that it takes weeks to get your USD if you want to cash out; the reason is that the exchanges don't have the liquidity to pay you, and have to wait for people to buy in. Classic Ponzi scheme, really.
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No, they are simply behind. It's not the first time, by the way. In April/May, they were something like 70,000 applications behind in processing applications.

Your assertion about liquidity is baseless, since you (and I) do not have facts regarding the cash reserves of these operations.

By the way I submitted a 'customer service request' about a minor website issue to one of the really good exchanges the other day and got an automated email back that it would be weeks before they could get back to me, they were completely swamped.

I do not see any reason to suggest or impute any ulterior motives to these realities.
 
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psionl0 said:
That's your proof that this is all just a giant conspiracy???
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Intentionally missing the point and adding extra question marks for even more faux-incredulity doesn't really help your credibility. Some questions have arisen with regard to just how 'real' these Bitcoin paper fortunes actually are, and attempting to dismiss criticism of the exchanges as a conspiracy is quite rightly seen as evasion.
 
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