Merged New telepathy test: which number did I write ?

[Dan O.]

So you don't think somebody describing voices telling him to kill himself should be advised to seek medical help from a doctor? Even to eliminate one obvious cause?

And again. Quote somebody claiming to be a doctor, or retract your claim entirely.

Apparently you didn't follow the link. You must know everything already.

 

[dafydd]

Apparently you didn't follow the link. You must know everything already.

No, you misunderstood his point. The link has nothing to do with your accusation that some of us pretended to be doctors and made a diagnosis. Nobody is pretending to know everything about psychosis, but you are pretending to know all about other forum members. Man up. Quote a post or withdraw your accusation.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Apparently you didn't follow the link. You must know everything already.

I don't claim to know everything. Nor has anybody else. Neither do I think that one link explaining how some people have no reason to worry a good enough reason to assume the guy whose voices apparently urged him to kill, and who has described distressing and stressful situations, is one of those lucky ones. Given the description he gave, and the tone of his posts I will continue to urge him to seek help.

It is the only reasonable and respectful response to somebody describing negative effects on their life.

Now, to tell you what I DO know: You made a statement here that other posters were claiming to be doctors. Kindly support this by quoting them, or retract it. Feel free to support your further claim by quoting anybody who has described their lay opinion as a diagnosis.

I assume you can?

 

[Tomtomkent]

No, you misunderstood his point. The link has nothing to do with your accusation that some of us pretended to be doctors and made a diagnosis. Nobody is pretending to know everything about psychosis, but you are pretending to know all about other forum members. Man up. Quote a post or withdraw your accusation.

The great irony being that it is true a lot of people are perfectly healthy hearing voices as the link says but not being doctors we can not assume this or state this which makes advising he seeks a proffessional medical opinion the only right answer.

 

[Michel H]

The great irony being that it is true a lot of people are perfectly healthy hearing voices as the link says but not being doctors we can not assume this or state this which makes advising he seeks a professional medical opinion the only right answer.

(corrected a small spelling error)
Let's assume you live in Munich (Germany) in 1935. Are you going to go consult the local Nazi party chief, in order to know what exactly to think about Jewish culture?
Let's now assume you have AIDS in London, in 1650 (way before the AIDS virus was discovered). Are you going to repeatedly, again and again, go consult your local physician, even though you have done this 20 times already, and you know that all he is going to "prescribe" you is bloodletting?
I quote, from wikipedia:

Bloodletting was used to treat almost every disease. One British medical text recommended bloodletting for acne, asthma, cancer, cholera, coma, convulsions, diabetes, epilepsy, gangrene, gout, herpes, indigestion, insanity, jaundice, leprosy, ophthalmia, plague, pneumonia, scurvy, smallpox, stroke, tetanus, tuberculosis, and for some one hundred other diseases.

 

[dafydd]

(corrected a small spelling error)
Let's assume you live in Munich (Germany) in 1935. Are you going to go consult the local Nazi party chief, in order to know what exactly to think about Jewish culture?
Let's now assume you have AIDS in London, in 1650 (way before the AIDS virus was discovered). Are you going to repeatedly, again and again, go consult your local physician, even though you have done this 20 times already, and you know that all he is going to "prescribe" you is bloodletting?
I quote, from wikipedia:

The analogies do not work. The Nazis existed and so does Aids, The existence of telepathy has yet to be proven. So far it has failed every real test. Perhaps you could help us and direct us to a post where one of us claimed to be a doctor and made a diagnosis. Dan O seems not to be able to do this.

 

[bruto]

So I did read the link, or at least skimmed it, and it's rather interesting, but nowhere did I see a suggestion that telepathy exists, or that the assumption of telepathy is a sane interpretation of voices in one's head. There did seem (not surprisingly given the source) to be a bias toward seeing a mental health professional to help sort it out, and the development of strategies to help cope with the issue, as well as determining what medications might help or what medications might be causing the problem, because although hearing voices is not itself considered a sign of insanity, what one does about it is pretty important.

I don't see that one has to be playing doctor to suggest that the first thing to do here is to get some professional guidance, and the site cited seems to suggest the same thing.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Let's now assume you have AIDS in London, in 1650 (way before the AIDS virus was discovered). Are you going to repeatedly, again and again, go consult your local physician, even though you have done this 20 times already, and you know that all he is going to "prescribe" you is bloodletting?

That's really not a good example.

For a start, you couldn't have had AIDS in 1650 as the virus did not emerge until the mid 20th century. So you're speculating about trying to convince your doctor of something imaginary. Oops.

Next, you have chosen to set your example in an age when medicine was not evidence-based and frankly killed more people than it cured. That is not true any more. Medicine is now evidence-based and any treatment you receive will be offered on the basis that it has actually been demonstrated to treat whatever you appear to present with.

Then there's the fact that AIDS now definitely exists, whereas try as they might, nobody has ever demonstrated that telepathy exists. It may seem to you dazzlingly obvious that you are telepathic and everyone must hear your thoughts. Unfortunately that is an illusion. You imagine an obvious effect, but the actual evidence says that even if there were such a thing as telepathy, it must be such a vanishingly weak effect that it is too slight to be detected by any serious experiment which has tried to demonstrate it.

 

[dafydd]

So I did read the link, or at least skimmed it, and it's rather interesting, but nowhere did I see a suggestion that telepathy exists, or that the assumption of telepathy is a sane interpretation of voices in one's head. There did seem (not surprisingly given the source) to be a bias toward seeing a mental health professional to help sort it out, and the development of strategies to help cope with the issue, as well as determining what medications might help or what medications might be causing the problem, because although hearing voices is not itself considered a sign of insanity, what one does about it is pretty important.

I don't see that one has to be playing doctor to suggest that the first thing to do here is to get some professional guidance, and the site cited seems to suggest the same thing.

I read the link too but I missed the bit about some people here pretending to be doctors and making a diagnosis. Don O?

 

[dafydd]

That's really not a good example.

For a start, you couldn't have had AIDS in 1650 as the virus did not emerge until the mid 20th century. So you're speculating about trying to convince your doctor of something imaginary. Oops.

Next, you have chosen to set your example in an age when medicine was not evidence-based and frankly killed more people than it cured. That is not true any more. Medicine is now evidence-based and any treatment you receive will be offered on the basis that it has actually been demonstrated to treat whatever you appear to present with.

Then there's the fact that AIDS now definitely exists, whereas try as they might, nobody has ever demonstrated that telepathy exists. It may seem to you dazzlingly obvious that you are telepathic and everyone must hear your thoughts. Unfortunately that is an illusion. You imagine an obvious effect, but the actual evidence says that even if there were such a thing as telepathy, it must be such a vanishingly weak effect that it is too slight to be detected by any serious experiment which has tried to demonstrate it.

Why doesn't Michael just beam his posts into our heads? I've tried beaming my posts to him but he never responds. It would eliminate tedious typing.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Why doesn't Michael just beam his posts into our heads? I've tried beaming my posts to him but he never responds. It would eliminate tedious typing.

<shrug> Who knows? I already suggested he beam his phone number to the world, promising a cash prize to the first caller. I don't know if he tried it or not.

I wonder if he ever wonders why he can't hear the cacophony of voices from all the other "psychics" worldwide who are equally convinced everyone can hear them. I guess that can only be because they are all suffering from a delusion whereas he is uniquely gifted, but can't seem to demonstrate it.

 

[dafydd]

<shrug> Who knows? I already suggested he beam his phone number to the world, promising a cash prize to the first caller. I don't know if he tried it or not.

I wonder if he ever wonders why he can't hear the cacophony of voices from all the other "psychics" worldwide who are equally convinced everyone can hear them. I guess that can only be because they are all suffering from a delusion whereas he is uniquely gifted, but can't seem to demonstrate it.

If we all broadcast to him at the same moment then how does he hear us one at at time? He really hasn't thought this through. You can bet that he will never try to broadcast a word to us, a word chosen at random out of a dictionary. I'll have a go. Michael, I will broadcast my word to you every 20 minutes for the next six hours. Are you receiving me? After all, you live not far away from me. Over.

 

[Tomtomkent]

(corrected a small spelling error)
Let's assume you live in Munich (Germany) in 1935. Are you going to go consult the local Nazi party chief, in order to know what exactly to think about Jewish culture?

Let's not assume. Let's deal with facts.
Are you suggesting now that healthcare practitioners are members of a political movement whose hatred of telepaths can reasonably be compared to Nazis and the attempts to exterminate Jews?

Let's now assume you have AIDS in London, in 1650 (way before the AIDS virus was discovered). Are you going to repeatedly, again and again, go consult your local physician, even though you have done this 20 times already, and you know that all he is going to "prescribe" you is bloodletting?
I quote, from wikipedia:

Let's not assume here either. Let's deal with facts.
Can you show that you have a condition that is not known to medical science? No. You have failed to do so.
Can you show that the response of a doctor would be to prescribe you something harmful? (Which would be odd as according to you what they actually did was ask you seek legal advise against those psychically attacking you).
Why should we even assume bloodletting would be the response from the doctor back then? You quoted a long list of diseases that did not include any reasonable diagnosis that could be ascribed to either AIDs or your own symptoms.

At best you are wording your arguments poorly and using comparrisons that are not a good fit and unreasonably turn anybody who does not automatically accept your claim at face value to a brutal and heartless villain. At worst your resposne could be read as being more than a little paranoid.

Either way, you must surely see why the rest of us have little or no reason to discount earthly causes of your voices before you have done so yourself. I am more willing to believe that the snowman flew away when I have seen evidence to suggest that melting or falling apart can be discounted.

 

[dafydd]

If anyone else hears the word then feel free to join in. How's my protocol looking, Don O?

 

[dafydd]

Let's not assume. Let's deal with facts.
Are you suggesting now that healthcare practitioners are members of a political movement whose hatred of telepaths can reasonably be compared to Nazis and the attempts to exterminate Jews?



Let's not assume here either. Let's deal with facts.
Can you show that you have a condition that is not known to medical science? No. You have failed to do so.
Can you show that the response of a doctor would be to prescribe you something harmful? (Which would be odd as according to you what they actually did was ask you seek legal advise against those psychically attacking you).
Why should we even assume bloodletting would be the response from the doctor back then? You quoted a long list of diseases that did not include any reasonable diagnosis that could be ascribed to either AIDs or your own symptoms.

At best you are wording your arguments poorly and using comparrisons that are not a good fit and unreasonably turn anybody who does not automatically accept your claim at face value to a brutal and heartless villain. At worst your resposne could be read as being more than a little paranoid.

Either way, you must surely see why the rest of us have little or no reason to discount earthly causes of your voices before you have done so yourself. I am more willing to believe that the snowman flew away when I have seen evidence to suggest that melting or falling apart can be discounted.

That reminds me of the story of the snowman who turned to another snowman and asked ''Can you smell carrots too?''

 

[Tomtomkent]

That reminds me of the story of the snowman who turned to another snowman and asked ''Can you smell carrots too?''

Barry Criar is a comedy genius.
"All that Christmas weight falls off me around spring..."

 

[dafydd]

Barry Criar is a comedy genius.
"All that Christmas weight falls off me around spring..."

I heard the snowman joke from a Belgian. Back to the business at hand. Has anyone received my word yet? Michael?

 

[Michel H]

Let's not assume. Let's deal with facts.
Are you suggesting now that healthcare practitioners are members of a political movement whose hatred of telepaths can reasonably be compared to Nazis and the attempts to exterminate Jews?
...

Tomtomkent, don't forget I often hear voices who tell me to "kill myself" (the voices seem to believe that I "kill people" by sending out telepathic waves). In 1935, Jews were not being exterminated yet. Until now, I have not died yet, but, if badly "treated", I could really die from an accumulation of problems and difficulties, including possibly toxic pseudo-medications, and the depressive effect of hearing lies, more or less mixed with aggressivity. This is outside the subject of this thread, but one may remark that Nazi persecutions against the Jews would probably not have gotten so bad, had the UK and France not decided to declare war to Adolf (it was really the last thing that he wanted). It is interesting and curious that one of the "voices" I hear compared herself to the Nazis, after she said she wanted to "eliminate" me. Political movements change, perception of what is "politically correct" changes, but people don't change a lot after 80 years.

 

[Michel H]

I heard the snowman joke from a Belgian. Back to the business at hand. Has anyone received my word yet? Michael?

dafydd, I am already receiving quite a few words in my head, often unpleasant, so I am not very keen on trying to perceive words from you (although it cannot be ruled out). Besides, I have not "heard" a word recently from an unusual voice, about which I might think it is your "telepathic voice".

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Tomtomkent, don't forget I often hear voices who tell me to "kill myself" (the voices seem to believe that I "kill people" by sending out telepathic waves). In 1935, Jews were not being exterminated yet. Until now, I have not died yet, but, if badly "treated", I could really die from an accumulation of problems and difficulties, including possibly toxic pseudo-medications, and the depressive effect of hearing lies, more or less mixed with aggressivity. This is outside the subject of this thread, but one may remark that Nazi persecutions against the Jews would probably not have gotten so bad, had the UK and France not decided to declare war to Adolf (it was really the last thing that he wanted). It is interesting and curious that one of the "voices" I hear compared herself to the Nazis, after she said she wanted to "eliminate" me. Political movements change, perception of what is "politically correct" changes, but people don't change a lot after 80 years.

I'm afraid I can't really see all of that being relevant to your refusal to seriously consider that nobody else can really hear what you are thinking.

Did you try what I suggested: try to broadcast the thought of a phone number, with a cash inducement for the first caller?

I'm going to guess that you at least considered it. Why did nobody ring, then? Is it more likely that everyone on the entire planet has agreed to join a conspiracy against you than that you are mistaken?

Why can't you hear a cacophony of broadcasts from other psychics, broadcasting their thoughts in a hundred or more languages? Are you the only one in a world of 7 billion?