Question for Gawdzilla

[Brainache]

Yeah, God would have probably crapped himself when he saw tanks

Now I know why the Germans lost the war. God hated their super iron chariots, the allies tanks weren't as good, so God wasn't as scared of them.

If the Germans had had worse tanks, Gott might have indeed been mit dem.

I bet you guys feel silly now!

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Now I know why the Germans lost the war. God hated their super iron chariots, the allies tanks weren't as good, so God wasn't as scared of them.

If the Germans had had worse tanks, Gott might have indeed been mit dem.

I bet you guys feel silly now!

Sorry, but if that's true then the Japanese would have won the war.

 

[Pope130]

"Tiger, tiger, in the night..."

"Two broken Tigers, on fire in the night, flicker their souls to the wind." Al Stewart.

 

[HansMustermann]

Now I know why the Germans lost the war. God hated their super iron chariots, the allies tanks weren't as good, so God wasn't as scared of them.

If the Germans had had worse tanks, Gott might have indeed been mit dem.

I bet you guys feel silly now!

Considering that both were pretty much the iron chariot 3000 years later and with far less vulnerabilities, I'd say more like God couldn't help against either, and left everyone to sort it out themselves

 

[Brainache]

Sorry, but if that's true then the Japanese would have won the war.

Considering that both were pretty much the iron chariot 3000 years later and with far less vulnerabilities, I'd say more like God couldn't help against either, and left everyone to sort it out themselves

I defer to the Gentlemens' superior knowledge of Military Theology.

I bow out of the debate.



ETA: As you can see this was all a bit of fun, but now I want to see the subject of "Military Theology" on the curriculum of some Fundy College. Sorry, Off Topic.

Carry on.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I was about to say that. The Japanese saw first hand how much of a joke their tanks were compared to even the BT-7 (the only one arguably on par for armour, but with a weaker gun, was the Type 97 Chi-Ha "medium" tank, and the Japanese had 4, the Russians had hundreds of BT-7)....

(Off Topic) I think the Tamiya model company (Japan) is showing a brave face releasing a model of a Japanese Type 97 tank to sit on the shelf next to Tamiya's German "King Tiger". Tamiya isn't hiding Japanese history which is welcome.

 

[I Ratant]

Now I know why the Germans lost the war. God hated their super iron chariots, the allies tanks weren't as good, so God wasn't as scared of them.

If the Germans had had worse tanks, Gott might have indeed been mit dem.

I bet you guys feel silly now!

.
German tanks tended to be "better" than the opposition fielded.. due mostly to their copying and improving a captured T-34.
However, for every really really superior German tank, the Allies had 50 lesser tanks, which just plain overwhelmed the few tanks the Germans could get operational.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

.
German tanks tended to be "better" than the opposition fielded.. due mostly to their copying and improving a captured T-34.
However, for every really really superior German tank, the Allies had 50 lesser tanks, which just plain overwhelmed the few tanks the Germans could get operational.

"My Tiger could take out any five Shermans. But you always had six."

 

[Pope130]

.
German tanks tended to be "better" than the opposition fielded.. due mostly to their copying and improving a captured T-34.
However, for every really really superior German tank, the Allies had 50 lesser tanks, which just plain overwhelmed the few tanks the Germans could get operational.

There was also the problem of Sturmoviks, Tempests and Thunderbolts. "Hitler built a fortress, but he forgot to put a roof on it."

 

[HansMustermann]

Well, it's more like Germany just didn't have the economy to take over even the USSR, much less the whole world. So, yeah, they could have lots of tanks or lots of airplanes, but not both. And it didn't really have the fuel for either of them.

Hitler pretty much bet everything on one card: the armoured-spearhead Blitzkrieg. But that actually almost got countered in France already, although it failed for lack of enough coordination. But when the USSR didn't fold at the first spear thrust, pretty much nobody had a realistic plan B. (And no, "err, let's kill the Jews?" isn't really a military plan)

 

[HansMustermann]

Or since you know I get the jitters if I don't take the piss, here's a history of the plan in both wars as a parable:

Some guy, let's call him Fritz, likes to go to the local bar where the local heavyweight wrestling league goes. So Fritz figures out, "man, I bet I could get out of the chair real casual like, kick the small guy in the way in the nuts, and then when he folds, I'll lunge over him and punch Francois real hard in the face. And then turn around real fast and sucker punch Ivan too, which should get him out of the way while I return to dealing with Francois. That'll show everyone who's the real tough guy!"

So Fritz is at the bar one evening, when his best friend Franz gets into a brawl with Milos and Milos's friend Ivan. Franz calls for help. Fritz gets out of the chair real casual like, kicks the guy between him and Francois, and then actually does punch Francois in the face. Franz pretty much goes, "WTH?"

Some hours later Fritz wakes up in the emergency room with his legs bending the wrong way, after being beat up by everyone until he cried for mercy. And now he owes pretty much even his pants to settle things up.

So now Fritz has learned his lesson: "You know, I bet if I turned faster next time, I could really do it. And the real mistake was crying for mercy. Next time I'm hanging in there until I win."

 

[Craig B]

... Hitler pretty much bet everything on one card: the armoured-spearhead Blitzkrieg. But that actually almost got countered in France already, although it failed for lack of enough coordination. But when the USSR didn't fold at the first spear thrust, pretty much nobody had a realistic plan B. (And no, "err, let's kill the Jews?" isn't really a military plan)

Under Adolf, the Wehrmacht was a "one trick pony", but even so, it's remarkable that the German air forces were trounced so completely, or that they never even managed to develop a bomber that could attack Soviet arms factories in the Urals. And when the Nazis invaded in 1941 they had effectively no heavy tanks.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, it's more like Germany just didn't have the economy to take over even the USSR, much less the whole world. So, yeah, they could have lots of tanks or lots of airplanes, but not both. And it didn't really have the fuel for either of them.

And he didn't put the German economy on a total war footing until ... '43?

Another problem was over-engineering. One of my profs said, "The Germans would have done much better with their war industries if they hadn't been so German."

 

[Craig B]

And he didn't put the German economy on a total war footing until ... '43?

Another problem was over-engineering. One of my profs said, "The Germans would have done much better with their war industries if they hadn't been so German."

I Suppose that's what his slave empire was for. Although I don't think he made full or efficient use of the war industries even in France or the Czech lands.

But what of the weapons available to the Japanese? How did they think they were going to defeat the USA when they couldn't even strike effectively at its core territory? If I remember correctly, only 6 civilians were killed in the 48 states by enemy action. Schoolchildren on an outing in the country, and the enemy weapon was a Japanese hydrogen-filled paper balloon with an incendiary device attached.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I Suppose that's what his slave empire was for. Although I don't think he made full or efficient use of the war industries even in France or the Czech lands.

But what of the weapons available to the Japanese? How did they think they were going to defeat the USA when they couldn't even strike effectively at its core territory? If I remember correctly, only 6 civilians were killed in the 48 states by enemy action. Schoolchildren on an outing in the country, and the enemy weapon was a Japanese hydrogen-filled paper balloon with an incendiary device attached.

The Germans and Japanese both had the problem of underestimating the US. The assumption was that a "pure" nation could defeat a "mongrel" nation every time in the most important battlefield of the war, the psychological battlefield. This was compounded in Japan by the obdurate refusal by the militarists to believe they would EVER lose a war against anyone. The Spirit of Yamato would give them the advantage over crass material objects. This mindset lead to their feeding themselves into the killing grounds for men like Basilone to mow down by the hundreds.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I Suppose that's what his slave empire was for. Although I don't think he made full or efficient use of the war industries even in France or the Czech lands.

The use of the slave labor was a desperation move, not a strategic decision. Hitler didn't want totaler krieg because he was concerned that it would show that he wasn't totally in control of the situation. And he didn't want women to be mobilized. Kinder, Kirche, Kuche was very important to him. This resulted in 50% of the population being under-utilized until it was too late.

 

[catsmate]

"My Tiger could take out any five Shermans. But you always had six."

And the Shermans could actually get places, Tigers were slow, pretty unreliable, fuel hungry and not great for bridges.

Under Adolf, the Wehrmacht was a "one trick pony", but even so, it's remarkable that the German air forces were trounced so completely, or that they never even managed to develop a bomber that could attack Soviet arms factories in the Urals. And when the Nazis invaded in 1941 they had effectively no heavy tanks.

A lot of that was pre-war politics and personalities, too much emphasis on dive bombing for accuracy, for example

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And the Shermans could actually get places, Tigers were slow, pretty unreliable, fuel hungry and not great for bridges.

The Germans had been on the other end of that for a while early in Barbarosa. One instance that comes to mind is when a KV-1 took up a commanding position in front of a German ammo dump. A miss could have set off all their ammo, so the Germans stunted a battalion of tanks to distract the Soviets while one Mk IV snuck up behind it and put one "where the wind blows". (Apologies to Freddy Mercury.)

 

[Craig B]

... This mindset lead to their feeding themselves into the killing grounds for men like Basilone to mow down by the hundreds.

Fortunate that Basilone was a US citizen of Italian, and not of Japanese, parentage.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Fortunate that Basilone was a US citizen of Italian, and not of Japanese, parentage.

True. However I sometimes think about what would have happened if there had actually been an act of sabotage on the West Coast and the Nisei were not relocated*. I imagine a rather nasty pogrom would have result.


*Not excusing the really bad idea, just considering an alternative scenario.