Looking for Skeptics

[Alice Shortcake]

Could flaccon HERSELF please tell us which voices she thinks are hers and what she thinks they're saying? Scrappy's insistence on speaking for her is irritating and, quite frankly, a bit creepy.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

This further complicates the issue Jack? she hasn't said she has heard her name twice in brummie and northern at all. She said her voice is present on the grimbsy clip. Scouse voice too.

Let's un-complicate it then:

I did not say she claimed she heard her name. I said she claimed she heard her own voice.

Yes, I agree, she said her voice is on the Grimsby clip. The woman talking in the background of the Grimsby clip has a convincingly Grimsby accent. Does flaccon have a Grimsby accent? I imagine the answer will be "no".

<edit to add> Scouse voice? Which Scouse voice do you mean?

She also claimed her own voice was in that older recording - the one where I thought I heard a budgie - but that woman had a Birmingham accent. Does flaccon have a Birmingham accent?

And come to think of it, she constantly evaded and never gave a straight answer to what I thought was the most innocuous question - did she keep a budgie. Mind you, at the time I was assuming that it really was a recording of flaccon. Now I'm increasingly convinced it was just some random recording she latched onto.

 

[Alice Shortcake]

Jack, would you mind editing your post 5339 to reflect the spoiler I've just added to my post 5337? I don't want to spoil the fun for others!

 

[scrappy]

I'm thinking the latter, given her record on here, but it's also worth bearing in mind that being a professional of any kind doesn't make you immune to nonsense. It's possible that he believes flaccon 100%. That doesn't make any of it more credible. In fact, given the fact that the first letter said that he's no expert on the supernatural, I'd say that that makes most people on this board better qualified to judge this case, given that we do look at these kinds of things all the time, and some even make a living doing so. There are experts on the supernatural here, and even those of us who aren't experts have more experience and knowledge than it seems that this doctor has.

Of course, flaccon is ignoring what the more qualified people are saying and holding on to her GP for 2 reasons - firstly, that way she can reinforce what she wants to believe (regardless of whether that's what he's actually saying), and secondly she seems to have a great deal of respect for authority figures and gives his opinion more weight simply because he's a doctor.

when you say "experts" on the supernatural, do you mean there are people here who have encountered/dealt with the supernatural?

I'd say flaccon has a lot of knowledge on the supernatural, considering its been ongoing in her life for 20 years. I requested to meet with her Gp, and get a feel of his thoughts on it all. Theres nothing incompetent about him. It seems to me that whoever tries to help flaccon, is either deluded themselves, or incompetent. No wonder alderbank didn't mention hearing "hello Katie its Julie"

From what I've personally witnessed, it needs a serious investigation. cos if this is the real deal, I want to know about it.

 

[scrappy]

Let's un-complicate it then:

I did not say she claimed she heard her name. I said she claimed she heard her own voice.

Yes, I agree, she said her voice is on the Grimsby clip. The woman talking in the background of the Grimsby clip has a convincingly Grimsby accent. Does flaccon have a Grimsby accent? I imagine the answer will be "no".

<edit to add> Scouse voice? Which Scouse voice do you mean?

She also claimed her own voice was in that older recording - the one where I thought I heard a budgie - but that woman had a Birmingham accent. Does flaccon have a Birmingham accent?

And come to think of it, she constantly evaded and never gave a straight answer to what I thought was the most innocuous question - did she keep a budgie. Mind you, at the time I was assuming that it really was a recording of flaccon. Now I'm increasingly convinced it was just some random recording she latched onto.

Well I can only say it as I see it. It's a scouse voice, not only is it scouse, its her voice, calling "people" stupid b**strds. Not only that but her father speaks too, that's in scouse too.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

when you say "experts" on the supernatural, do you mean there are people here who have encountered/dealt with the supernatural?

Nobody has ever encountered the supernatural. Many people have studied supernatural claims, but none has ever demonstrated a supernatural effect.

From what I've personally witnessed, it needs a serious investigation. cos if this is the real deal, I want to know about it.

There are plenty of people here who would be happy to agree with you. A serious investigation would be more than welcome.

Playing clips and declaring they have voices on them which weren't there to begin with is not going to contribute to serious investigation.

Sharing an original recording and then demonstrating that those originals change after flaccon listens to them - which she claims to happen - would be such dramatic evidence that it could win millions in prize money. Even if you are aloof to such inducements as mere money, I only use that as a measure to indicate how astounding some real evidence would be.

 

[abaddon]

Wow. That is so utterly different from what I hear, having been prompted by scrappy's original filename.

I hear <removed>

Jack, I will PM what I hear.

 

[calebprime]

I went back and added the link:

https://app.box.com/alderbank

Yes, I agree entirely, if people have been invited to interpret the recordings with flaccon's interpretation as the file name then it's hardly surprising if people tend to agree with such obvious prompting.

I downloaded the file, changed the header to .wav, and put it through IzotopeRx noise reduction.

Then I brought up the gain to be as loud as possible.

There's a very indistinct voice saying...something indistinct. There's just not enough high end, or even middle frequencies, to make anything out.

Any guesses are just exercises in pure imagination.

There's no way -- that I know of -- to enhance this further. There's just not enough there.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Well I can only say it as I see it. It's a scouse voice, not only is it scouse, its her voice, calling "people" stupid b**strds. Not only that but her father speaks too, that's in scouse too.

That's fine. We can each only call it as we see it. The fact that we entirely disagree about what we hear demonstrates the fundamental flaw in using this as evidence of anything.

 

[Alice Shortcake]

when you say "experts" on the supernatural, do you mean there are people here who have encountered/dealt with the supernatural?

There are people here who have investigated supernatural claims and found them to be exactly that - claims unsupported by empirical evidence. There are people here who formerly believed that they had supernatural abilities of various kinds, but came to realize that they were deceiving themselves.

I'd say flaccon has a lot of knowledge on the supernatural, considering its been ongoing in her life for 20 years.

No, she has 20 years experience of believing in the supernatural. Nowhere on this thread has she demonstrated the slightest understanding of why she, or indeed anyone else, could be genuinely mistaken in these beliefs.

I requested to meet with her Gp, and get a feel of his thoughts on it all.

Oh, for God's sake. Does this man have nothing better to do with his time than chat with non-patients about their supernatural beliefs? Do you seriously think that he'd discuss anything touching on his treatment of another patient?

Theres nothing incompetent about him.

We don't know what he's said to flaccon or how flaccon has interpreted it. For all we know he's dealing with this the best way he can. Unless he really is buying into this claptrap he has my deepest sympathy.

It seems to me that whoever tries to help flaccon, is either deluded themselves, or incompetent.

If you think you're helping flaccon you may have a valid point there.

No wonder alderbank didn't mention hearing "hello Katie its Julie"

He either didn't hear it because it wasn't there or didn't think there was anything supernatural about it.

From what I've personally witnessed, it needs a serious investigation. cos if this is the real deal, I want to know about it.

This may well be the nearest thing you'll ever get to a serious investigation, because unless the spirits change their modus operandi there is no way that any scientifically valid tests can be carried out. People have fallen over themselves trying to co-operate with flaccon but it's like talking to a brick wall.

 

[scrappy]

Could flaccon HERSELF please tell us which voices she thinks are hers and what she thinks they're saying? Scrappy's insistence on speaking for her is irritating and, quite frankly, a bit creepy

(I texted flaccon before to ask her to log in but she has visitors)

 

[scrappy]

There are people here who have investigated supernatural claims and found them to be exactly that - claims unsupported by empirical evidence. There are people here who formerly believed that they had supernatural abilities of various kinds, but came to realize that they were deceiving themselves.



No, she has 20 years experience of believing in the supernatural. Nowhere on this thread has she demonstrated the slightest understanding of why she, or indeed anyone else, could be genuinely mistaken in these beliefs.



Oh, for God's sake. Does this man have nothing better to do with his time than chat with non-patients about their supernatural beliefs? Do you seriously think that he'd discuss anything touching on his treatment of another patient?




We don't know what he's said to flaccon or how flaccon has interpreted it. For all we know he's dealing with this the best way he can. Unless he really is buying into this claptrap he has my deepest sympathy.



If you think you're helping flaccon you may have a valid point there.



He either didn't hear it because it wasn't there or didn't think there was anything supernatural about it.



This may well be the nearest thing you'll ever get to a serious investigation, because unless the spirits change their modus operandi there is no way that any scientifically valid tests can be carried out. People have fallen over themselves trying to co-operate with flaccon but it's like talking to a brick wall.

Nothing supernatural about a voice from nowhere, one saying as above and the other saying "trace its Julie" in her deceased sisters voice? That's not strange to you? Flaccon simply cannot accept strangers opinions, against her own family, that that isn't their father. They know their fathers voice, strangers don't. The Gp doesn't know her fathers voice but after treating flaccon for 11 years, he'll quite well know that flaccon wouldn't be fabricating anything. The Gp isn't treating flaccon for anything now that she's regained full health. I did speak with her Gp regarding the supernatural, but mostly I listened.

 

[scrappy]

That's fine. We can each only call it as we see it. The fact that we entirely disagree about what we hear demonstrates the fundamental flaw in using this as evidence of anything.

But as the evidence mounts, piecing it together shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Mojo]

Actually Alice, wind back to the "rescheduled" part. I had a third-party here ready and waiting that night. Aldebank did not make it. I did not manage to get online the next day to accept a reschedule (I was busy)

Except at 01:27 PM, 01:48 PM, 01:54 PM, 02:01 PM and 02:05 PM. All of these posts were made within two hours of, and are on the same page as, Alderbank's post of 12:25pm, in which he wrote:

OK.

flaccon, can you hear me? Can I visit this evening? No card tricks, just me

The first is only just over an hour later than Alderbank's post, and only five posts below it.

 

[scrappy]

I downloaded the file, changed the header to .wav, and put it through IzotopeRx noise reduction.

Then I brought up the gain to be as loud as possible.

There's a very indistinct voice saying...something indistinct. There's just not enough high end, or even middle frequencies, to make anything out.

Any guesses are just exercises in pure imagination.

There's no way -- that I know of -- to enhance this further. There's just not enough there.

we didn't have do anything other than press play to work out what it says. we didn't actually guess. I couldn't get the end word because it trails off. I don't know if its her father, but 4 members of her family know.

 

[Pixel42]

scrappy, please look at this photo:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...9AC5E8FB1F493379B1ED00E1DB8E&selectedIndex=84

Many people, including me, see an image of Jesus in this photo.

1. Are we delusional?

2. Are we lying?

3. Are we mistaken?

4. Is there really an image of Jesus there?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

But as the evidence mounts, piecing it together shouldn't be too difficult.

Evidence is the problem - claims are not evidence.

The file you sent me and which I uploaded has nothing intrinsically strange about it. Now if you were to claim that there was not originally a voice in the clip but now there is one - that would be very strange indeed, but unfortunately you have provided yourself with no way of showing that this is what actually happened.

You have only presented the final recording, and that is zero evidence. As all the zeroes mount, piecing them together still gives you zero.

You need a different approach.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Nothing supernatural about a voice from nowhere, one saying as above and the other saying "trace its Julie" in her deceased sisters voice? That's not strange to you?

A claim of this happening is not strange to me, no. Evidence of this would be exceedingly strange.

Flaccon simply cannot accept strangers opinions, against her own family, that that isn't their father.

Hence that line of argument will lead nowhere and she needs to employ a more convincing approach; one which does not rely on opinions.

The Gp doesn't know her fathers voice but after treating flaccon for 11 years, he'll quite well know that flaccon wouldn't be fabricating anything.

I think by now you will recognise that this is not evidence of anything. It's an attempted appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy, and even then it's a bit of a stretch since it's founded only on your assertion of what you believe about what flaccon's GP believes.[/QUOTE]

 

[scrappy]

Except at 01:27 PM, 01:48 PM, 01:54 PM, 02:01 PM and 02:05 PM. All of these posts were made within two hours of, and are on the same page as, Alderbank's post of 12:25pm, in which he wrote:


The first is only just over an hour later than Alderbank's post, and only five posts below it.

Mojo I travelled over in hope to meet alderbank, at a pub somewhere. I was supposed to go third party on that night, but it was cancelled, and I had to leave the next day. The next day being when flaccon played an afternoon of chess with her son. No ones lying here, this is how it was.

 

[calebprime]

we didn't have do anything other than press play to work out what it says. we didn't actually guess. I couldn't get the end word because it trails off. I don't know if its her father, but 4 members of her family know.

No.