LDS II: The Mormons

[Foster Zygote]

I guess you do have more to say.

It seems that all opposition to your position is biased.

You're certainly reenforcing your own statement with the sources that you present to support your argument.

Here's still another "biased" report (written by Dale O'Leary and entitled "Science, myths and same-sex parenting," Oct., 2007; see link).

How is it not biased? You've cited a conservative Christian writer who once suggested that being gay increases one's risk of getting cancer, and who cites a sociologist who wrote a book published by The Christian Institute.

O'Leary's report notes that Patricia Morgan, in her book Children as Trophies?, "reviews 144 published studies on same-sex parenting and concludes that it fosters homosexual behavior, confused gender roles, and increased likelihood of serious psychological problems later in life." Morgan, a European sociologist, provides extensive footnotes in her book.

Then perhaps you could link to some of this evidence that Patricia Morgan has?

Piece by piece, Morgan deconstructs the homosexuals' arguments.

No she doesn't. At one point, she launches into a positively asinine tirade about misandrous same-sex female couples as though they are typical of lesbian women. She's saying that we shouldn't allow same sex marriage because some of the people involved might be imperfect. Why is it that same-sex partners have to answer for the actions of a couple of psychologically screwed up lesbians, but nobody sees a control-freak father who abuses his wife and teaches his son to hate and exploit women is not seen as having anything to do with married heterosexuals generically? She's appealing to the prejudices of her using stereotypes.

You can read all about it (not that you will want to)...

Given that you have posted a number of things that you clearly have not read, I find that comment rather ironic.

 

[Olowkow]

Piece by piece, Morgan deconstructs the homosexuals' arguments. You can read all about it (not that you will want to) at:

www/mercatornet.com/articles/...science-myths-and-same-sex-parent...

I'd like to read it but you somehow miss copied/pasted the URL. Is it in here somewhere?

http://www.mercatornet.com/issues/sex_and_society

Has to be "www.mercatornet.com" not "www/mercatornet.com".

Looks like sort of a right wingish type of site to me. You realize I hope that one guy "deconstructing arguments" does not a study make.

 

[RandFan]

Faith precedes miracles:
l

But no regeneration of limbs.
funny that.

 

[Janadele]

Re negative replies to my previous post 305

First one needs to understand the reasons for our mortal life, which I have previously addressed many times in the LDS thread, so will not bother repeating.

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities. Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

 

[Pixel42]

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

And yet God told them not to drink hot drinks when he could have told them to boil all water, thereby drastically reducing the number who died from cholera during their early migrations.

With 10 deaths this year: Are Mormon missionaries safe?

 

[RandFan]

I haven't argued against gay marriage on the ground that promiscuity is "somehow a gay problem." I simply listed precautions homosexuals should take according to the Mayo Clinic. Independently of the Mayo Clinic post and the issue of gay marriage, I may have alluded to a study or studies showing that promiscuity occurs at a higher rate among homosexual men than it does among non-homosexual men.

To what end? That's what you will not address? Even if we accept your premise it's entirely irrelevant.

1. Marriage laws are not and have never been about finding the best prospects for raising children. Children born in poverty are by definition disadvantaged yet their parents are allowed to marry.
2. There is no correlation that would suggest that marriage leads to gays and lesbians having children (or more children).
3. One of the only experts for the defense in the prop 8 trial admitted under oath that there was no such evidence and that allowing gays and lesbians to marry would strengthen (help) the families of gays and lesbians.

So, I'll ask one more time the question you refuse to answer, to what end do you point out the promiscuity of gays (lesbians are less sexually active than all other groups)?

DO - YOU - HAVE - A - POINT?

 

[CriticalSock]

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities. Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

That is neither loving nor just.

 

[Empress]

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

Bully for LDS missionaries and LDS members.

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities.

Personally, I reject wickedness and evil, which is why I would reject your god even if he existed. A more wicked and evil creature would be hard to find.

Interesting that despite my "wickedness and evil" I've survived at least a half-dozen hurricanes in my life and numerous tropical storms with no physical and little property damage. In fact Katrina was barreling right at my town before swinging off and hitting the unfortunate people of NO and Mississippi.

Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

It's almost like such things happen by chance rather than divine intervention. Funny, that.

 

[halleyscomet]

Re negative replies to my previous post 305

First one needs to understand the reasons for our mortal life, which I have previously addressed many times in the LDS thread, so will not bother repeating.

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities. Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

You just described a very impotent God.

You depict a feeble deity only able to help a tiny fraction of the vast masses begging for his aid. According to the rationalization you posted above, God was unable to save thousands of people crying for his aid because a rib woman ate an apple and gave it to a clay man.

Oh, right. The pre-life. They were mostly dark skinned, meaning they rejected God in the previous life. Does that mean they deserved to die because because of their past sins?

How do you explain all the white Jews executed by the NAZIs?

 

[steve s]

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

No. Mormons die in accidents and from disease just like everybody else. They are no more protected than anybody else. People who survive accidents are usually convinced they were protected somehow. But we never get to hear from all the people who die in accidents. That's called "selection bias."

Steve S

 

[Foster Zygote]

And yet God told them not to drink hot drinks when he could have told them to boil all water, thereby drastically reducing the number who died from cholera during their early migrations.

With 10 deaths this year: Are Mormon missionaries safe?

Pixel42 raises an excellent point, Janadele. Do you have any comment?

 

[Foster Zygote]

To what end? That's what you will not address? Even if we accept your premise it's entirely irrelevant.

1. Marriage laws are not and have never been about finding the best prospects for raising children. Children born in poverty are by definition disadvantaged yet their parents are allowed to marry.
2. There is no correlation that would suggest that marriage leads to gays and lesbians having children (or more children).
3. One of the only experts for the defense in the prop 8 trial admitted under oath that there was no such evidence and that allowing gays and lesbians to marry would strengthen (help) the families of gays and lesbians.

So, I'll ask one more time the question you refuse to answer, to what end do you point out the promiscuity of gays (lesbians are less sexually active than all other groups)?

DO - YOU - HAVE - A - POINT?

He seems to be relying on various double standards. For example:

- Homosexuals are fallible human beings, and therefor are disqualified from the rights afforded to other fallible human beings.

- Homosexuals are to be legally discriminated against for "immoral" yet legal behaviors, such as promiscuity, while heterosexuals are not.

Basically, all homosexuals are to be judged according to the most objectionable behaviors that he can find within their population. If a misandrous lesbian couple raise a child to share their screwed up ideas, then it is obvious that all homosexual couples must be prevented from marrying. Yet if a misogynous father treats his wife like crap in front of their son and teaches him to hate and exploit women, then it is obviously an individual flaw, and does not reflect on the institution of marriage.

 

[deaman]

Of course, the people who drowned while praying won't get articles written about them.

Confirmation Bias is a powerful delusion.

Can you imagine all the other people who were calling on God to save them during the storm?

No one is writing about their experience though.

 

[Craig4]

Re negative replies to my previous post 305

First one needs to understand the reasons for our mortal life, which I have previously addressed many times in the LDS thread, so will not bother repeating.

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities. Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

You've not offered anything to explain why anyone should take Mormon beliefs or texts seriously, let alone squander some of the best years of your life spread that which is clearly a fraud. Therefore, no weight can be given to the claim that Mormon missionaries are favored.

 

[RandFan]

First one needs to understand the reasons for our mortal life, which I have previously addressed many times in the LDS thread, so will not bother repeating.

Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities. Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

When I was facing homelessness I reached out to family members for help. One of my family members (my wife's brother) is a General Authority for the LDS Church. He sent me a long rambling email telling me that I was being punished for my wickedness.

Here's the thing, the best man at my wedding left the church nearly 20 years ago. He has a successful ophthalmology practice and is very well off. He also likes wine, is a major playboy with no plans of ever settling down. I emailed those fact to my brother-in-law asking him why god was punishing me and not my best friend. I got a soliloquy on Job and how god makes it rain on the good and bad. Okay then what's the point? What guarantee did I have that my financial problems would be solved by being an active Mormon? There are lots of rich ex-Mormons and a lot of dirt poor Mormons. I grew up in a very strict Mormon family and my parents rarely had two pennies to rub together. Up until I went on disability I had much more money than my parents ever had. My father never had a new car. I've had many and I've traveled more then my parents and have enjoyed far more luxuries. I got sick and lost my job. It happens. It's called life. Connecting that to my choice not be an active Mormon is just evidence of confirmation bias. You pick and choose the evidence that supports your belief and ignore the evidence that doesn't.

Why does it look like fate, degree of intelligence, competence, talent, and the decisions people make are the reasons for what happens in life?

 

[Rincewind]

Isn't Utah mainly arid desert?

Surely Mormons must have prayed for it to become a "land flowing with milk and honey"?

Why didn't God answer these prayers?

Oh - and when I was religious, I recall being taught that God made us all.

Why on earth, then, did He make some people homosexual, if only to have them persecuted ever after?

 

[bruto]

Isn't Utah mainly arid desert?

Surely Mormons must have prayed for it to become a "land flowing with milk and honey"?

Why didn't God answer these prayers?

Oh - and when I was religious, I recall being taught that God made us all.

Why on earth, then, did He make some people homosexual, if only to have them persecuted ever after?

I have not been to Utah but I've heard that the Salt Lake City area is not so bad. My understanding is that the Mormons settled in Utah largely because it was so lousy and nearly uninhabitable before they got there that they had a hope of being left alone. Plus it was part of Mexico when they got there, so the people trying to chase them out of the country could stop chasing.

Of course I'm no Mormon apologist by far, and I imagine a proper Mormon could explain it better, but it's just possible the Mormons did not pray for what you expect, and got what they were looking for.

 

[pakeha]

...

O'Leary's report notes that Patricia Morgan, in her book Children as Trophies?, "reviews 144 published studies on same-sex parenting and concludes that it fosters homosexual behavior, confused gender roles, and increased likelihood of serious psychological problems later in life." Morgan, a European sociologist, provides extensive footnotes in her book.

Piece by piece, Morgan deconstructs the homosexuals' arguments. You can read all about it (not that you will want to) at:

www/mercatornet.com/articles/...science-myths-and-same-sex-parent...

This link appears to be broken.

 

[pakeha]

...Interesting that, in a thread about "LDS" doctrine, a Catholic Author's opinion piece is offered as "evidence" that marriage equality will be bad for "the children".

The actual article can be found here:
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/science_myths_and_same_sex_parenting...

Thanks, Slowvehicle.
I note the article mentions something skyrider quoted

In her book Children as Trophies? European sociologist Patricia Morgan reviews 144 published studies on same-sex parenting and concludes that it fosters homosexual behaviour, confused gender roles, and increased likelihood of serious psychological problems later in life. - See more at: http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/science_myths_and_same_sex_parenting#sthash.snq9Y0Mq.dpuf

Where are those studies, skyrider?
Why don't you link to them?

 

[pakeha]

...Yes, LDS Missionaries are favoured of the Lord, as are also many LDS members, who will, in the majority of situations be protected by Him.

Those who choose wickedness and evil will reap the consequences either in this life or in the eternities. Unfortunately many innocent and others who strive to do what they think to be right and endeavour to make the best choices they know how, will also suffer in mortality as a direct result of the consequences of the wickedness of Satan and his followers.

Does "suffer in mortality" mean they die?

...

1. Marriage laws are not and have never been about finding the best prospects for raising children. Children born in poverty are by definition disadvantaged yet their parents are allowed to marry.
2. There is no correlation that would suggest that marriage leads to gays and lesbians having children (or more children).
3. One of the only experts for the defense in the prop 8 trial admitted under oath that there was no such evidence and that allowing gays and lesbians to marry would strengthen (help) the families of gays and lesbians.

So, I'll ask one more time the question you refuse to answer, to what end do you point out the promiscuity of gays (lesbians are less sexually active than all other groups)?

DO - YOU - HAVE - A - POINT?

Yes, RandFan, it gets more and more confusing just what Mormons are getting at here.
My question is:
What is the point of the LDS in opposing same-sex marriage legislation?