Homeaopatic pill contents

[joesixpack]

Many years back when I was married to a woman who believed in, literally, every conceivable form of alternative medicine, I was cajoled into taking some homeopathic cure for something I had (the flu, I believe). They tasted like what I remember candy cigarettes tasting like. I should have gone ahead and eaten the whole bottle right in front of her then and ended the marriage sooner, but no, I was polite.

Is it just sugar and some sort of binding agent? Or are there some other ingredients? Some flavoring and citric acid would make them taste like Smarties (Canadians, please note, I'm referring to the US version of Smarties, not M&Ms, so keep your candy ethnocentricis, in check please) which could only be an improvement.


(Jesus, it was funny, thinking back on it. She was acting like it was serious medicine. "Just shake two pills out into the cap, you can't touch them because that will reduce their effectiveness. Now toss them into your mouth and let them dissolve under your tongue. Don't chew them! That keeps them from working!" )

 

[Mojo]

The pills are usually either lactose or a lactose/sucrose mix. The remedy is made up by serially diluting something in a water/alcohol mix, often until none of the solute remains, and the the resulting solvent Is dropped on the pills and allowed to evaporate. Or alternatively, the blank sugar pills are put with or near some that have had the solvent dripped in them (if you don't believe me, Google the words homeopathic and grafting).

Whatever way they are produced, the pills will basically just be lactose or lactose/sucrose, and without detectable amounts of anything else. Almost certainly not enough of anything else to have a physiological effect or a taste.

ETA: I think Rolfe (another forum member) once bought a bottle of 30C belladonna (as a result of a challenge from a homoeopath) and discovered that the listed contents were lactose and sucrose. Nothing else.

 

[joesixpack]

I had always assumed that they didn't even pretend at the production facility. They just crank out a million bottles of pills and then slap whatever label on them according to the size of their orders. We're not talking about ethical people here.

 

[chrismohr]

Joe do you have proof of this? I think the ingredient labels show minute quantities of something besides just sugar. Some have arsenic, and when a patient tells their doctor they are doing homeopathioc, doctors will often ask to look at the bottle to make sure there's no actual poison in them!

 

[Skibum]

I had always assumed that they didn't even pretend at the production facility. They just crank out a million bottles of pills and then slap whatever label on them according to the size of their orders. We're not talking about ethical people here.

Perhaps the adhesive in the label they put on the bottle contains the diluted tincture which due to its proximity to the pills makes the magic happen.

 

[AdMan]

Joe do you have proof of this? I think the ingredient labels show minute quantities of something besides just sugar. Some have arsenic, and when a patient tells their doctor they are doing homeopathioc, doctors will often ask to look at the bottle to make sure there's no actual poison in them!

Well, given that non-homeopathic herbal supplements often do not contain any of the key ingredients they supposedly do (see http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268005; apologies for linking to my own thread), it would not surprise me in the least that the labels on homeopathic remedies have little correlation with what's in the bottle.

 

[Madalch]

Joe do you have proof of this? I think the ingredient labels show minute quantities of something besides just sugar. Some have arsenic, and when a patient tells their doctor they are doing homeopathioc, doctors will often ask to look at the bottle to make sure there's no actual poison in them!

"Minute" meaning that there is usually a greater concentration of impurities in the sugar than in the "active ingredients" that they supposedly add. If the label says that it's "12C arsenic", there's about a 50% chance of there being a single atom of arsenic in every litre or so of preparation. Usually the preparations are diluted even more than this.

 

[Mongrel]

Joe do you have proof of this? I think the ingredient labels show minute quantities of something besides just sugar. Some have arsenic, and when a patient tells their doctor they are doing homeopathioc, doctors will often ask to look at the bottle to make sure there's no actual poison in them!

In the UK the regulations for homeopathic producers consists of a check for manufacturing safety, not efficacy or quality (pdf).

There's a link to a Patient Information Leaflet here of a fairly standard off the shelf product.
Skipping down to the what's in it section we find a variety of ingredients at 6c (that's 1 part per trillion, 1,000,000,000,000) and from that solution 1 drop is added to the tablets and the bottle shaken. Frankly at that point it's up to the homeopaths to show there's anything other than a sugar tablet in the bottle.

You may also want to read Evidence Check 2: Homeopathy
which quotes one of the homeopathic vendors admitting that without a label he'd be unable to identify what a particular pillule was.

 

[Craig B]

Joe do you have proof of this? I think the ingredient labels show minute quantities of something besides just sugar. Some have arsenic, and when a patient tells their doctor they are doing homeopathioc, doctors will often ask to look at the bottle to make sure there's no actual poison in them!

Given the extent of the dilution you're in no great danger. See Quackwatch at http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

A 30X dilution means that the original substance has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50 times the size of the Earth ... The American Physical Society has noted that since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30,000,000,000 times the size of the Earth.

 

[Mojo]

You may also want to read Evidence Check 2: Homeopathy
which quotes one of the homeopathic vendors admitting that without a label he'd be unable to identify what a particular pillule was.

Or this:

Q538 Lord Broers: I have a simple, technical question about homeopathy and drugs. Is it possible to distinguish between homeopathic drugs after they have been diluted? Is there any means of distinguishing one from the other?

Ms Chatfield: Only by the label.

Ms Chatfield introduced herself as "here to represent the Society of Homeopaths and I am a senior lecturer in homeopathy at the University of Central Lancashire".

 

[Mojo]

Perhaps the adhesive in the label they put on the bottle contains the diluted tincture which due to its proximity to the pills makes the magic happen.

The label itself could be enough. Look up "paper remedies".

 

[Mongrel]

Or this:


Ms Chatfield introduced herself as "here to represent the Society of Homeopaths and I am a senior lecturer in homeopathy at the University of Central Lancashire".

That would probably be it.

Cheers

 

[MRC_Hans]

Many years back when I was married to a woman who believed in, literally, every conceivable form of alternative medicine, I was cajoled into taking some homeopathic cure for something I had (the flu, I believe). They tasted like what I remember candy cigarettes tasting like. I should have gone ahead and eaten the whole bottle right in front of her then and ended the marriage sooner, but no, I was polite.

Is it just sugar and some sort of binding agent? Or are there some other ingredients? Some flavoring and citric acid would make them taste like Smarties (Canadians, please note, I'm referring to the US version of Smarties, not M&Ms, so keep your candy ethnocentricis, in check please) which could only be an improvement.


(Jesus, it was funny, thinking back on it. She was acting like it was serious medicine. "Just shake two pills out into the cap, you can't touch them because that will reduce their effectiveness. Now toss them into your mouth and let them dissolve under your tongue. Don't chew them! That keeps them from working!" )

As already mentioned, real homeopathic pills contain only lactose, where a highly diluted solution has been dripped on. Most of the dilutions in use preclude any active ingredient.

However, since homeopathic remedies have a free pass in many government regulation bodies (including the FDA), because they are considered to be in themselves harmless, the label "Homeopathic" is slapped on a lot of stuff, so they may contain various substances in significant amounts: Taste correction, herbal concoctions, even steroids and antibiotics!

Hans

 

[pakeha]

Joe do you have proof of this? I think the ingredient labels show minute quantities of something besides just sugar. Some have arsenic, and when a patient tells their doctor they are doing homeopathioc, doctors will often ask to look at the bottle to make sure there's no actual poison in them!

As already mentioned, real homeopathic pills contain only lactose, where a highly diluted solution has been dripped on. Most of the dilutions in use preclude any active ingredient.

However, since homeopathic remedies have a free pass in many government regulation bodies (including the FDA), because they are considered to be in themselves harmless, the label "Homeopathic" is slapped on a lot of stuff, so they may contain various substances in significant amounts: Taste correction, herbal concoctions, even steroids and antibiotics!

Hans

There's your answer, chrismohr.

ETA

While many homeopathic remedies are highly diluted, some products sold or labeled as homeopathic may not be highly diluted; they can contain substantial amounts of active ingredients. Like any drug or dietary supplement that contains chemical ingredients, these homeopathic products may cause side effects or drug interactions. Negative health effects from homeopathic products of this type have been reported.

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/homeopathy

Caveat emptor, indeed.

 

[jimtron]

The very popular homeopathic remedy Oscillococcinum shows on the box that the ingredients are 100% sugar (0.85 g sucrose, 0.15 g lactose). But the "active" ingredient is bird organs, which is pretty funny since a lot of vegetarians/vegans seem to be into homeopathy (and not into sugar).

It's a good starting point for discussing homeopathy, most folks who buy Oscillo don't know that it's pure sugar with the memory of bird meat. I posted on FB about this and had a lively discussion. One of my main points in that discussion was how deceptive it was to call duck liver and heart, "Anas Barbariae Hepatis et Cordis Extractum."

Talked about that a bit in this thread as well:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156962&page=1

 

[pgwenthold]

The question I've always wondered: someone sells a homeopathic medicine that is some crazy dilution. How do you know that's what it is?

Even if they are actually doing some dilution in the factory, how do you know it's a 20C and not 19C or 21C? Man, what if the guy gets lazy and only does a 15C?

How would anyone know?

 

[MRC_Hans]

The question I've always wondered: someone sells a homeopathic medicine that is some crazy dilution. How do you know that's what it is?

Even if they are actually doing some dilution in the factory, how do you know it's a 20C and not 19C or 21C? Man, what if the guy gets lazy and only does a 15C?

How would anyone know?

You wouldn't.

Simple as that.

Hans

 

[pgwenthold]

You wouldn't.

Simple as that.

Hans

Of course, I know that. But I really want to know what the believers' answer would be.

As noted above, apparently some homeopath big wig says you have to go by what's on the label. That's flabbergasting that anyone would actually accept it.

 

[jimtron]

Of course, I know that. But I really want to know what the believers' answer would be.

As noted above, apparently some homeopath big wig says you have to go by what's on the label. That's flabbergasting that anyone would actually accept it.

I posted on Facebook, something like: "which common medicine involves killing animals in the manufacturing process, and whose ingredients contain only sugar?" Kind of sneaky, but led to a good discussion.

 

[xtifr]

This was briefly alluded to before, but I think it's worth emphasizing:

It is common (at least in the US) to mix homeopathic "remedies" with random herbal "remedies", and market the result as homeopathic. So seeing "homeopathic" on the label is no guarantee that you're getting a plain sugar pill! Do not eat a whole bottle unless you're sure!