Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Machiavelli]

Mach go back to page 57 in this thread where I posted cut and paste from Massei's report.

It was Rudy's lust and Rudy's lust alone, acc. to Massei. It was not a sex game.

Read it for yourself, better still quote from it. Don't just declare it false.... wait, that's what you do and what Mignini did. Simply make declarations and expect everyone to believe them.

But it's self-evident that it's false.
You don't believe Knox was convicted by Massei for sexual violence?

 

[Diocletus]

But it's self-evident that it's false.
You don't believe Knox was convicted by Massei for sexual violence?

That's easily believable.

Guede's DNA is found in Kercher's vagina and Massei convicts Amanda Knox of rape.

This is quite a normal thing for a pervert judge to decide.

 

[acbytesla]

Delete

 

[Kaosium]

Americans are in average xenophobic, as well as presumptuons and arrogant, against everyone.
Americans are simply racist and prejudicial in average, full stop, and they are not fully conscious of being so. They also massively look like extreme simpletons in their understanding of cultures, and of political, antropological and social phenomenons.

It does not mean that Italians are necessarily better human beings. They have their degree of racism, they are partly fascist and mafious. They can have the worse quality around (albeit they tend to keep a style different from Amaricans).
But bad qualities of Italians do not change the extraordinary degree of stupidity and arrogance demonstrated by US Americans. Actually the surprising element to me was the degree of falsehood and bias spread by the US media.
The US coverage of the case was, whether you like it or not, a mass of disgusting defamatory crap the networks made up to sell their story to the prejudicial and gulliable American public.

How about this: you don't like Amanda and think she's a hazard to public safety. I (and others) think the same of Mignini and think he belongs in jail. Amanda's here, Mignini's there, if you love him so much you can keep him (out of prison) and we'll let Amanda play with kittens and watch chick-flicks. We'll take Raffaele off your hands too. Call it 'multicultural diversity' and we can all have a Coke together!



Interesting note--that commercial was filmed in Italy!

 

[Machiavelli]

Everyone knows that Italian men live with their mommies until about 40 years old. That's why they need to pop the titties out of their mouth. It will help them grow balls.

I'm just trying to be helpful here.

Of course. One of your non-xenophobic and non-prejudicial comments.
Frank Sfarzo must be an exception then, since he lived with her mother until the age of 50, and he was your main source.

What about your titty, and your parroting again the lie - while you know it (or you knox it) to be false - that the prosecution allegedly hid the EDFs...

 

[acbytesla]

But the The fact that the US media pushed a campaign which completely misrepresented the Kercher case, omitted and falsified the evidence, put up a Knox-show in place of reporting about the case, and pushed an defamatory accurate campaign spreading falsehoods the truth against specific Italian justice institutions, personnel to me it is just a fact.

A little editing was necessary

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

But the fact that the US media pushed a campaign which completely misrepresented the Kercher case, omitted and falsified the evidence, put up a Knox-show in place of reporting about the case, and pushed a defamatory campaign spreading falsehoods against Italian justice institutions, to me it is just a fact.

Do you remember the journalist outraged with the US secretary of state speaker because the Italian juror wore the Italian flag?
Or you remember the CNN journalist outside the Perugia court explaining the crowd in the square was angry with the police?
Or the fact that the US networks paid the Knox family stays in Perugia?

Who cares who paid for the Knox family to stay in Perugia? Would you feel the same way if Italians paid for an Italian family to stay in the U.S. for the trial of one of their daughters?

You want to make it seem as if Americans are against Italians and this just isn't true. No one around my area of the country even knows who Amanda Knox or Rafaelle Sollecito are. In Italy, I had to explain who they were when I asked for people's opinions on the case. It's not what you are making it out to be. You are trying to make it about the U.S. vs. Italy and it is not.

 

[Diocletus]

Of course. One of your non-xenophobic and non-prejudicial comments.
Frank Sfarzo must be an exception then, since he lived with her mother until the age of 50, and he was your main source.

What about your titty, and your parroting again the lie - while you know it (or you knox it) to be false - that the prosecution allegedly hid the EDFs...

Yes, well, you know . . . when you have a duty to be objective, but you run lots of experiments and use only the ones that help the prosecution and suppress the ones that hurt the prosecution, and then you write a report that talks only about the ones that help the prosecution and you never mention the ones that might help the defense . . . well, that's a lie . . . or, perhaps the lab is just an Approximate Reporter. Yes, I'm sure that's it.

 

[Bill Williams]

But it's self-evident that it's false.
You don't believe Knox was convicted by Massei for sexual violence?

Strangely I'm not arguing what is self-evident. I'm arguing with what Massei *said*.

Read the repost of Massei on p. 57 of this thread. Better still , read the whole report. Not just Mignini's interpretation of it.

 

[acbytesla]

Diocletus. I think we are being unfair if we paint Italy with a broad brush. For example. I've come to totally admire Raffaele. He is a hero in my book. He has truly demonstrated tremendous courage in how he has handled himself throughout this affair. There are Italians that are on Amanda's and Raffaele's side. Sadly, Italy judicial system is screwed up and there are some morons who have acted badly. We should not treat them as if they are all the same.

 

[Diocletus]

Diocletus. I think we are being unfair if we paint Italy with a broad brush. For example. I've come to totally admire Raffaele. He is a hero in my book. He has truly demonstrated tremendous courage in how he has handled himself throughout this affair. There are Italians that are on Amanda's and Raffaele's side. Sadly, Italy judicial system is screwed up and there are some morons who have acted badly. We should not treat them as if they are all the same.

Well, in fairness, I originally said that Machiavelli needed to pop the titty out of his mouth. But then he started talking about titties and parrots and I got confused.

 

[Bill Williams]

Yes, well, you know . . . when you have a duty to be objective, but you run lots of experiments and use only the ones that help the prosecution and suppress the ones that hurt the prosecution, and then you write a report that talks only about the ones that help the prosecution and you never mention the ones that might help the defense . . . well, that's a lie . . . or, perhaps the lab is just an Approximate Reporter. Yes, I'm sure that's it.

I don't think Machiavelli didn't exactly back down from him calling Barbie Nadeau a liar, but still fudged by calling her an "approximate reporter."

Two things are true. Machiavelli made my day with that remark and Barbie struck him off her Christmas list.

Andrea must be furious that Barbie got the film deal, profiting from this tragedy.

 

[acbytesla]

Well, in fairness, I originally said that Machiavelli needed to pop the titty out of his mouth. But then he started talking about titties and parrots and I got confused.

Trust me, I understand. It's easy to get carried away. I think Mignini and Stefanoni belong in jail and I think that the Italian judicial system needs reform.

Unfortunately there are bad apples and every system could probably use a some reforms.

 

[js202]

That's easily believable.

Guede's DNA is found in Kercher's vagina and Massei convicts Amanda Knox of rape.

This is quite a normal thing for a pervert judge to decide.

In dealing with such legendary obtuseness, you have struck the only tone that still makes sense: mockery. A sad business, but there it is.

 

[Grinder]

That's not what I said. What I said is that her reporting is not reliable when favorable for the prosecution, but more reliable when not favorable to the prosecution.

That's not what I said, again. I never said that she had a "vested interest." I said that she is pro-prosecution.

That's because she's pro-guilt. But, for the same reason, her statement about Comodi's demand on Mignini is a statement against interest and therefore bears greater indicia of reliability.

If not vested what kind of interest was it against? There is no basis to say that it is reliable as it doesn't work against guilt for most. So, okay she's guilty but let's leave out the satanic thing.

IDK. Her book perhaps?

Not exactly a PMF the case for guilt forum. Barbie is a goof like the other travel/food writers.

Bill is right. Statements against interest are more reliable than self-serving statements.

The statement wasn't against interest. They were selling fictionalized accounts of the crime. Their interests are to make money. If they could come up with spicy stuff that would sell, do it.

Sure, corroboration would be nice, but that's not likely to happen for a number of reasons. A statement against interest bears some indicia of reliability, though, so we have that to go on.

First one would have to establish that it goes against their interests which the statements don't. While it certainly is the case that in some circumstances a statement against interest might be more powerful it can also be the case that it could be part of a larger scheme to gain trust for a bigger issue.

Why do you suppose only Barbie reported Comodi and only Follain reported the internal convos? Maybe because they made them up?

 

[Grinder]

Above my pay grade?? What is exactly my pay grade Grinder? Considering I'm not getting paid for any of this, everything is above my pay grade. Another occasion where you are precise. Still not sure if that is correct, however.

I thought we weren't taking things literally?

Meredith's DNA was never deemed starch by anybody of consequence. Dempsey was wrong, incorrect, mistaken, inaccurate, imprecise, wide of the mark, off target; untrue, false, fallacious and she should have known by 2013. I am not only precise but correct in saying that it didn't "turn out to be starch". Now speaking against interest; therefore speaking to truth, had she said they only found Amanda's DNA and starch when reexamining the knife that would have been true, accurate and precise (at least if the early reports are correct)

I am correct in saying that the mixed biological evidence found of Meredith and Amanda could not be described accurately as "mixed blood" of the two. I'm correct and Barbie was (and is?) wrong.

Why don't you argue that it could be mixed blood? Although Chris has put forward arguments that it is highly unlikely, I think he has said it is possible.

 

[Grinder]

I did, but what does that mean? That the police "said" that all the others had solid alibis? Amanda would have a solid alibi, if the police had taken Raffaele at his word. I've learned through this case not to take the police and the prosecution at their word.

Excuse the expression, but the devil is in the details.

Sorry Tesla but details and precision are to be derided.

Amanda has full access to all records. Take Raffaele at his word? Are you kidding? You just can't admit that you make statements like "they had the same alibi" when you have no idea what you are talking about.

I asked politely if you had any idea what Filomena's actual alibi looked like. You responded that her alibi was the same as Amanda's, that she was with her boyfriend. I asked if they were with other people until late or out in public having dinner or drinks and you come back with nothing.

Yes the devil is in the detail (Bill did you know the expression comes from God is in the detail) and that detail is what they had to make their alibis solid and you have no idea.

Silly for me to think that Amanda might actually know and agreed that they had solid alibis.

 

[Grinder]

Which the defence did NOT request for two years.
And which were never denied by the prosecution.
They were denied by a judge!

Go on with your titty and parrot yuor lies again...

Mach this is where I totally have an issue with your thinking. Assuming you are correct about the two year etc., why don't you see that justice would be better served to release the files.

What could the prosecutor or court have to fear from the release?

I think all of these records should be automatically available from the court/prosecution and even the public should be able to access them. why not? And please not an Italian legal answer but a let's have open transparent rules and procedures that let us get to the truth.

 

[acbytesla]

I thought we weren't taking things literally?

Meredith's DNA was never deemed starch by anybody of consequence. Dempsey was wrong, incorrect, mistaken, inaccurate, imprecise, wide of the mark, off target; untrue, false, fallacious and she should have known by 2013. I am not only precise but correct in saying that it didn't "turn out to be starch". Now speaking against interest; therefore speaking to truth, had she said they only found Amanda's DNA and starch when reexamining the knife that would have been true, accurate and precise (at least if the early reports are correct)

I am correct in saying that the mixed biological evidence found of Meredith and Amanda could not be described accurately as "mixed blood" of the two. I'm correct and Barbie was (and is?) wrong.

Why don't you argue that it could be mixed blood? Although Chris has put forward arguments that it is highly unlikely, I think he has said it is possible.

Considering that you were taking a shot out me, I thought it best to ignore the metaphorical meaning of your statement and focus on the "precise literal meaning" to avoid rising to the the bait .

Is it really significant to say that C&V said that Meredith's DNA was not found on the knife but starch was compared to to what Candace said?

I respectfully think there is a huge difference between that and saying they found mixed blood Whereas Candace doesn't change the fact that C&V's report is totally exculpatory, Barbie however changes something that is neutral into something that is incriminating.

I cannot stop you from seeing things in your way. You will do what you will do.

 

[acbytesla]

Sorry Tesla but details and precision are to be derided.

Amanda has full access to all records. Take Raffaele at his word? Are you kidding? You just can't admit that you make statements like "they had the same alibi" when you have no idea what you are talking about.

I asked politely if you had any idea what Filomena's actual alibi looked like. You responded that her alibi was the same as Amanda's, that she was with her boyfriend. I asked if they were with other people until late or out in public having dinner or drinks and you come back with nothing.

Yes the devil is in the detail (Bill did you know the expression comes from God is in the detail) and that detail is what they had to make their alibis solid and you have no idea.

Silly for me to think that Amanda might actually know and agreed that they had solid alibis.

True, silly you. Amanda might actually know, but didn't get into the details in such a short interview. With all respect Grinder, you are assuming everything. And you know what happens when you assume?

The Devil is in the details..or God..your choice.