LDS

[desertgal]

That's the most intelligent post you've made yet.

 

[Janadele]

Informative reading relating to some of the questions being asked:

“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions
2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds
3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa
4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military
5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

But, Kupelian warns – what’s going on behind the scenes, and what’s coming down the tracks – is even more troubling.”

http://victoriajackson.com/9892/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism#ZePBhSEJiKLgoo9q.99

http://libertyalliance.com/2013/10/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism/

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Informative reading relating to some of the questions being asked:

“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions
2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds
3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa
4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military
5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

But, Kupelian warns – what’s going on behind the scenes, and what’s coming down the tracks – is even more troubling.”

http://victoriajackson.com/9892/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism#ZePBhSEJiKLgoo9q.99

http://libertyalliance.com/2013/10/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism/

Liberty Alliance is not at all a completely biased site.

Any thoughts of your own janadele?, He asked knowing no answer would be given.

 

[bruto]

I am confident all are aware the continual bleating of "what is done in the privacy of one's home" is but a diversionary tactic from the real and blatant issues... on which I have already commented. Such as: adoption of innocent children into a perverted against God and nature lifestyle and the effects thereof, in your face exhibitionism prevalent in so called "entertainment", in public venues, schools and so called "educational" content, discrimination and the use of an immoral legal system to intimidate and attempt to force others to comply against their will... etc, etc, etc.

What effects? Other than, rather obviously, leading such children to accept what you dont, what other effects are there? Come on, let's see some actual reporting here. Adoption of children by gay parents has occurred for a very long time. It predates civil unions and gay marriages, as I have often pointed out, since the rights of such families were key in the Vermont Supreme Court's ruling which led to civil unions. There's history here. If there's a problem, show it, and stop telling us that the past is the future. Of course, if you think accepting homosexuality is itself a dire consequence, then inevitably, accepting homosexuality will lead to it. But what else? Is there anything else? Do you possess some secret knowledge that you refuse to share. Stop telling us the past is in the future.

Edited to add: I did (briefly) open those links provided above, though the tone was set by the initial charge that the gay rights movement is a "Trojan Horse" aimed at undermining the family. That is, of course, a lie, a pernicious and loaded falsehood, suggesting among other things that the very thing that motivates the fight for gay marriage is a hatred of the institution it seeks. It is not just a misunderstanding. It's not just bigoted. It's bat-poo crazy. It is hard to imagine how anybody could be so crazy as to subscribe to this stuff, much less to quote it as if it were truth.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Informative reading relating to some of the questions being asked:
“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions

This is, of course, simply a lie. What is prohibited is enforced anti-gay therapy "wanted" by someone other than the homosexual individual.
Homosexual persons who, themselves, want to pursue "anti-gay" therapy not only can do so, but in most case, such therapy is covered by insurance (by law, for instance, in New Mexico).

You will notice (OK, I'm dreaming) that the screed you quoted does not provide citations to the "laws" they claim are being passed.

Did you also notice that the site you provided flat-out denies that there is a "gay agenda"?

One of the reasons that laws prohibiting enforced "gay healing" therapy, imposed upon an individual by another's will and position of power, is that the therapies have a demonstrably low success rate.
http://www.outfront.org/library/exgay/facts

Of course, that does not even begin to address the civil rights violations involved. Janadele, I do not expect you to even be able to conceive of this, but...suppose a hard-core Extreme Catholic cabal successfully took over Australia's govenrnment. Would you submit to mandatory "de-mormonizing" therapy, imposed "for your own good" by the courts? Would you argue that such therapy was a good thing?

2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds

....And this is another flat-out lie. Does the CJCLDS not frown upon false witness; upon rank dishonesty?

I challenge you to provide a single example of a buisness being "forced" to "promote" homosexuality. (Keep in mind what happened when you told your little fibs about the "gaoled" preacher...) Do you know what businesses are "forced" to do? Obey the legal laws, statues, and regulations of the United States of America. Would you really prefer a society where a business could refuse to rent a domcile to a couple who were living an "abhorrent lifestyle", openly and notoriously claiming the right to be married...even though one (or both) of them were..."negro"? Or mormon? Or worse, a "mixed marriage" (he's all PC, she blows Mac)? Does not the CJCLDS encourage its members to submit to the legal laws, statutes, and regulations of the United States of America?

3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa[/qiote]

...and...? I have a friend who is transgendered. Forcing him to use the ♀ bathroom because of his XX chromosomes would subject the ♀ individuals in the bathroom to a ♂-dressed, clearly "male" individual--in Texas, that kind of thing can literally get you killed. Why not let him use the bathroom in the facility that will cause the least disruption? Are you afraid he is only going in there to gawk at men? I guarnatee you that you would not be able to tell that he is XX without violating his person in unconstitutional ways.

4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military

...and..? How is letting people who want to serve, serve, problematic? Do you think anyone goes through basic to get a date? Did you ever serve in the military? (Disclaimer--I have not. I was rejected by all 5 services, including the Coast Guard, on my 21st birthday.)

5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

As I have asked you before--how does the marriage of any two homosexuals affect YOU, at all? Why are you so worrited about what others are doing, where you do not have to participate? You certainly soen a lot of time thinking about it; but why?

Not to mention, same-sex unions are not being "imposed upon anyone. All that is being "imposed" is compliance with the law.

But, Kupelian warns – what’s going on behind the scenes, and what’s coming down the tracks – is even more troubling.”

http://victoriajackson.com/9892/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism#ZePBhSEJiKLgoo9q.99

http://libertyalliance.com/2013/10/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism/

Since everything else you quoted from Kupellian is demonstrably false, what makes him a trustworthy source in your mind? Is it just because he says what you hope to hear?

What happens when the next demagogue down the pipe decides that mormons are "not really xianists", and molds the law and the press to her will for the purpose of stripping you of your own basic civil rights? How would that be any different?

I find it interesting that the only part of your post that is original, and not simply copypasta, is the part I highlighted, above.

AH, well--I appeal to a hitherto undemonstrated level of empathy. Suppose you answer, for once, in your own words, the questions (OK, some of the questions--you know what? ONE of the questions ...) put to you?

And, yes, for what it is worth, I do, in fact, drink coffee out of a Disneyland mug...but a fabulous Disneyland mug.

ETA: How does someone who has referred to BYU as an "anti-mormon propaganda" source find comfort in the arms of "Whistle Blower" magazine?

 

[desertgal]

“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions

Even if that were true, which it isn't, how does that directly inegatively impact YOU, living in Australia? (Presuming you are speaking of legislation within the USA.) How does it negatively impact the Mormon church?

2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds

Even if that were true, which it isn't, how does that negatively impact YOU, living in Australia? (Presuming you are speaking of prosecution within the USA.) How does it negatively impact the Mormon church?

3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa

How does that negatively impact YOU, living in Australia? How does it negatively impact the Mormon church?

4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military

How does that negatively impact YOU, living in Australia? (Presuming you are speaking of the US military and the recently rescinded "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".) How does it negatively impact the Mormon church?

5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

Presuming that by "nation", you are referring to the USA, how does that negatively impact YOU, living in Australia? How does it negatively impact the Mormon church?

 

[kerikiwi]

Informative reading relating to some of the questions being asked:

“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions
2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds
3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa
4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military
5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

1. Untrue
2. Untrue.
3. So what?
4. Like forced integration of dark skinned people? Oh the horror.
5. How does that work?

I still tend to think that Janadele is not Mormon and doesn't actually believe any of what she posts. Is that what a troll is?

 

[Janadele]

...someone who has referred to BYU as an "anti-mormon propaganda" source ...

Pray tell where?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Pray tell where?

Funny that that is the only thing you read in my post. Suppose you comment on the things I and others have pointed out about the lies you copypata-ed from "Whistleblower"?

 

[jsfisher]

Pray tell where?

How convenient you forget so easily. That was early on in your labeling just about everything that didn't fit your world view as anti-Mormon. Since you appear to be so poorly versed on actual Mormon doctrine and are unable to response outside the realm of a copy/paste of the words of others, it is no wonder you failed to identify a position that was actually Mormon.

At least consider amending your victim card to read "anti-Janadele". I believe only a modest percentage of all Mormons would align themselves with your beliefs.

 

[Janadele]

... That was early on...

Prove it

 

[Slowvehicle]

Prove it

Think back to the links I gave you (that you never read) about "Steve" and the Spencer Lake Horse Hoax.

Suppose you answer some of my questions?

 

[bruto]

Prove it

Dangerous precedent.

lots of people can make
their own whisky but
can t drink it
(archy the cockroach)

 

[Robrob]

“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions

Not true. Why would you tell untruths?

2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds

Misrepresentation of people violating discrimination laws. Out of curiosity, have any of the "criminalizes" ever gone to jail? If not, then it wasn't really "criminal" was it?

3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa

This bothers you, how?

4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military

Speaking as someone who's been in the military for 30+ years, they have always been there. No one cares.

5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

Why do you hate marriage?

http://victoriajackson.com/9892/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism#ZePBhSEJiKLgoo9q.99

Because Victoria Jackson has shown herself to be so rational and level headed...

 

[Janadele]

Think back to the links I gave you...

Unacceptable... when you accuse a poster of making such a reference, either proof or a withdrawal of such accusation is required.

 

[deaman]

If one wants to discuss the whole historical and social history of the belief in general that Indians were the lost tribe, or any of the other things, one could write a college thesis on that topic alone. Most of that kind of thing can be googled and people have actually already done incredible amounts of research. So let's just cut to the chase, it seems to me that what you're asking is if I were aware of these discrepancies and/or knew that the Church taught these things, would I leave the Church? Obviously not. As I've said, I've been through all this before with my siblings.

As I think I've said from the beginning, I'm not a literalist. It's like telling a Protestant that a world-wide flood was physically impossible, and expecting it to be new information that they were unaware of or to shake their faith. For a few, it actually might. Others might already know that a world-wide flood is impossible and agree that it's impossible. I'm like a Protestant who isn't bothered by evolution or geological facts even if they contradict what's literally written in the scriptures.

Cat Tale -

Understand.

Your actions, as far as I am concerned, classify you as an A-1, way cool individual.

Your straight-forwardness and cool-as-a-cucumber demeanor are completely attractive, and are the polar opposite of some others, who allegedly represent your church, and whose action are repulsive.

No, I am not asking if you would leave the church. I am asking how you rationalize these things.

You can obviously see the discrepencies, right? It doesn't appear you are questioning them.

I get it, you are willing to hold your faith, in spite of said discrepencies.

My main question is: Why?

Thank you.

 

[Robrob]

Oh wait, now I see you just C&P some other wingnut's screed. You can't even provide your own POV, you have to steal it from a foreigner!

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Oh wait, now I see you just C&P some other wingnut's screed. You can't even provide your own POV, you have to steal it from a foreigner!

Depressingly janadele cannot think for herself.

I'll skip to my main question, Janadele why do you care about what happens in the privacy of peoples homes and why do you harbor such hate for certain people?

 

[tsig]

Informative reading relating to some of the questions being asked:

“1. legislation that flat out prohibits counseling help for minors who want to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions
2. the prosecution and criminalization of ever-larger numbers of Christian businesspeople for simply declining to promote homosexuality on moral and religious grounds
3. the new California law decreeing that boys must be allowed to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms if they identify with the opposite sex, and vice versa
4. forced integration of open homosexuals into the military
5. the imposition on the nation of homosexual marriage.”

But, Kupelian warns – what’s going on behind the scenes, and what’s coming down the tracks – is even more troubling.”

http://victoriajackson.com/9892/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism#ZePBhSEJiKLgoo9q.99

http://libertyalliance.com/2013/10/gay-rights-trojan-horse-totalitarianism/

Why are you so interested in human genitalia?

 

[Craig4]

Unacceptable... when you accuse a poster of making such a reference, either proof or a withdrawal of such accusation is required.

He has proven it. SV did link to comments from a BYU scholar who stated that No amount of archeology would prove the BoM incorrect. You dismissed everything he posted that contradicts your beliefs as anti Mormon propaganda. That might not be suitable to you but it is to me and probably everyone else here. So, yes you did dismiss a BYU scholar as anti Mormon propaganda.