Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Machiavelli says that Mignini was only ever at the cottage on November 2nd. But Profazio testifies that he and Mignini had returned to the cottage on April 23rd. This gives the appearance that Machiavelli has some motive for being here other than to convey the truth.




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'Nobody asked the "superwitness" what he was smoking on that bench' -- FRANK SFARZO

Dan O the truth means very little to these guys,take Maresca last night on porta a porta lying about Amanda's footprint being found in the murder room,he knows that this claim is lies,but one thing is certain the prosecution has run out of liars for hire (Stefanoni Curatolo Quintavella)any lying done now they will have to do it themselves
 
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I read that Kate Beckinsdale has signed on to make a movie that is based on "the fatal gift of beauty"
I'm sorry but I didn't find any other information on this.
I find this interesting because they will be making a semi-fictional book into a fictional movie.
With fiction you change the names, and you can do alot of things while telling a story that you could not get away with in non-fiction.
The fact is Rudy Guede was adopted by one of the richest and most influential families in Perugia. Another fact is Rudy Raped and murdered Meridith, so he should have got sentenced to life without parole.
Some people may say that he was one of a group of 3 people who did this, but even if you believe that, Rudy is the guy that did the stabbing and left the DNA sample inside her, therefore Rudy deserved life.
So, if Rudy is looking at life without parole, it is possible that the family who adopted him, may feel sorry for him, and they forgave him and helped him get a much shorter sentence.
Now lets talk fiction.
Mignini has AK + RS and Patrick in jail. He was investigating Patrick for involvement in a satanic cult.
When he finds out that Patrick's employee is the roomate of a girl who was murdered, he thinks that maybe the cult was behind the murder. Besides Patrick is a Black immigrant from Africa who is married to a white woman, so he has attacked the racial purity of Italy.
So Mignini has his perpatrators in jail, but his evidence and witness testimony is total crap. The deal with Rudy is just what he needs. Rudy agrees to testify that he was with AK+RS when Meridith died, in return for a reduction of his sentence. This will add something new to the story, and Mignini and the guilters could generate lots of publicity if they got pissed off.
 
new Knox movie?

I read that Kate Beckinsdale has signed on to make a movie that is based on "the fatal gift of beauty"
I'm sorry but I didn't find any other information on this.
I find this interesting because they will be making a semi-fictional book into a fictional movie.
With fiction you change the names, and you can do alot of things while telling a story that you could not get away with in non-fiction.
The fact is Rudy Guede was adopted by one of the richest and most influential families in Perugia. Another fact is Rudy Raped and murdered Meridith, so he should have got sentenced to life without parole.
Some people may say that he was one of a group of 3 people who did this, but even if you believe that, Rudy is the guy that did the stabbing and left the DNA sample inside her, therefore Rudy deserved life.
So, if Rudy is looking at life without parole, it is possible that the family who adopted him, may feel sorry for him, and they forgave him and helped him get a much shorter sentence.
Now lets talk fiction.
Mignini has AK + RS and Patrick in jail. He was investigating Patrick for involvement in a satanic cult.
When he finds out that Patrick's employee is the roomate of a girl who was murdered, he thinks that maybe the cult was behind the murder. Besides Patrick is a Black immigrant from Africa who is married to a white woman, so he has attacked the racial purity of Italy.
So Mignini has his perpatrators in jail, but his evidence and witness testimony is total crap. The deal with Rudy is just what he needs. Rudy agrees to testify that he was with AK+RS when Meridith died, in return for a reduction of his sentence. This will add something new to the story, and Mignini and the guilters could generate lots of publicity if they got pissed off.
 
Raffaele and I have used this knife to cook, and it's impossible that Meredith's DNA is on the knife because she's never been to Raffaele's apartment before. So unless Raffaele decided to get up after I fell asleep, grabbed said knife, went over to my house, used it to kill Meredith, came home, cleaned the blood off, rubbed my fingerprints all over it, put it away, then tucked himself back into bed, and then pretended really well the next couple of days, well, I just highly doubt all of that.
"Frankly, I didn't see this amount of outright lies. I wonder what you mean. I don't even think that the example you reported above could be defined an "outright lie". If you reported it accurately, even the bit you mentioned would fall within the range of approximate reporting "
In that paragraph Amanda was being sarcastic. She is not saying that Raffaele did any of that stuff. This is like a skit you would see on tv where the comic is pretending to be a guilter and is telling this stupid story that he thought up about Raffaele. After this was edited it looks like Amanda is stating a fact and not just being sarcastic.
After it was edited it became an outright lie. It would not be unlike Amanda saying Raffaele did not get out of bed, and editing out just 1 little word, and making it Raffaele did get out of bed.
This illustrates another problem Amanda had, she speaks in a dialect that intellectual teenagers of her generation use, they use plenty of sarcasm and disrespect the person
[/COLOR]they are speaking to, If you are a cool guy you would understand that they are trying to entertain by using lots of sarcasm and being funny. If you are some retard who works for the Daily Mail you would not be able to figure out exactly what she was saying.
 
Welcome to our little discussion xinonix.

A new forum takes some getting used to. This forum has been heavily modified from the original so there are many extra enhancements but it also hasn't kept up with updates to the base product so there are a few bugs. One of the most annoying that you have discovered is that sometimes the forum gets busy and you don't see your post right away so hit the save button again. If it takes more than a minute to update, the dup catcher can miss it and we have a duplicate of the post. There is also no verification for metatags so if you try to be fancy it is easy to get them crossed up. Use the "Go Advanced" and "Preview" buttons to check your post before posting or you can edit your post for up to 2 hours to get it right.
 
My answer is no.
There's two major reasons for this:
1) The key word in your question is 'intends'. Witness A has already stated his / her state of mental confusion. If the context is that this witness has been through a thoroughly mentally and emotionally disruptive few days, then such confusion would be within normal psychological parameters. If the context is also that said witness has been informed that a second witness (B), whom she trusts, has placed her at a crime scene, contrary to her own memories, and the police, whom she also trusts, have informed her they have 'hard evidence' that places her there, then that mental confusion would be compounded. A well respected expert in the psychological community has written many peer-reviewed papers about exactly what the consequences of such a state are for many people. Anyway, in a general sense, this kind of state can very well limit the mental capacity required for true intentionality.
Also, you seem to think that there's binary states; conscious and unconscious. That the only alternative to a fully conscious and intentional act is one that the subject is unaware of making completely. This is clearly not the case. The law clearly recognises that there are in between states, hence the necessity for proving mens rea as well as actus rea. And although these literally translate into guilty mind and guilty act, it refers to the wider sphere of human action, and states that in order for there to be an action, there must be a physical component and a mental component. And that mental component has to be executed by a mind which has the capacity to understand the nature of the act itself, and to be able to understand some of the relevant context of the act, for example the potential consequences. Actus rea, if witness A said those words, is proved, fine. But to show mens rea, you'd have some more work to do, other than stating that the witness was aware of making these sounds with her mouth.
So once you can see this, then you have to admit that your estimate of probability is flawed. However unlikely it was that witness A was completely unaware of her words (a state only likely with neurological problems or severe / unusual psychiatric disorder)the added possibilities that the witness did not understand the nature of the act, or the context acted in, raises the probability that witness A 'did not mean to place such evidence'.
2) Witness A's reasonable expectation of the truth-seeking nature of police investigation, meant that she reasonably expected that these words said within the context of previously stated mental confusion, and not directly connecting Mr X to the crime, would not be taken as 'evidence against' anyone, but that instead would be thoroughly investigated and tested for the purposes of corroboration.

The answer to your question is no. And these are the exact reasons why witness A should not be held morally or legally accountable for statements made against Mr Y either.
I don't know why you can't understand the notion of false memories, false confession syndrome, and until you publish (or reference) some peer-reviewed work explaining why these pieces of mainstream psychology are wrong, I guess they will stand as scientific fact.
The correct interpretation of witness A's statement could very well be that she / he was under a great deal of stress, getting less sleep than usual, probably having nightmares about a traumatic event, and was convinced (falsely) that his / her memories were not correct. In an effort to help police, the witness did a desperate mental inventory in this mentally clouded state, and found images, fragments of mental content (imaginings, dreams, memories) and tried to sort through them by theme (blood, violence, discomfort) instead of by category, and allowed herself to be (at least partially) convinced that these were memories, or if they were memories (like Mr X preparing raw fish) allowing them to be recontextualised within a new narrative.

I hope Fiona, formally writing on this thread, but now from one of the PGP sites reads this. I think obviously that it was the naming of Lumumba that most reasonable people who believe in her guilt, find most hard to understand.
 
I do believe LJ and/or Davefoc found that the copyright was owned by a short fat perp named Profazio, who is (or was) one of the high muck-a-mucks in the Perugian polizia di stato. He's also the first one to utter anything about there being a 'cartwheel' which had completely escaped the notice of everyone despite all the trashy tales told about Amanda after the murder. That is, until the day Zugarini, Ficarra and Napolenoni testified on the interrogation in spring of '09. All of a sudden, starting with Profazio at the press conference before they testified, everyone heard the sordid details of the infamous cartwheel--that never happened. She was doing yoga and then did the splits, somehow this tale grew in the telling and all of the officers above started talking about a cartwheel during their testimony.

So, while there is definitely another short fat perp it might have been, we know Profazio is the sort who likes using the press in a misleading fashion, that 'bloody bathroom' pic convinced many online Amanda must have showered in that bathroom without being initially alarmed, thus making her sound like she was lying or crazy, when it actually looked like this.

I have to correct you, and many others who've referred to Mignini as "short and fat".

He's apparently c. 5'10"/1.79M tall.

That Machiavellii has never castigated anyone about this vile and oft-repeated slander (that Mignini is short) would indicate that, contrary to popular belief, he doesn't know Mignini personally.
 
<snip>The answer to your question is no. And these are the exact reasons why witness A should not be held morally or legally accountable for statements made against Mr Y either.
I don't know why you can't understand the notion of false memories, false confession syndrome, and until you publish (or reference) some peer-reviewed work explaining why these pieces of mainstream psychology are wrong, I guess they will stand as scientific fact.
The correct interpretation of witness A's statement could very well be that she / he was under a great deal of stress, getting less sleep than usual, probably having nightmares about a traumatic event, and was convinced (falsely) that his / her memories were not correct. In an effort to help police, the witness did a desperate mental inventory in this mentally clouded state, and found images, fragments of mental content (imaginings, dreams, memories) and tried to sort through them by theme (blood, violence, discomfort) instead of by category, and allowed herself to be (at least partially) convinced that these were memories, or if they were memories (like Mr X preparing raw fish) allowing them to be recontextualised within a new narrative.

Excellent explanation, bri1; thank you.

I hope Fiona, formally writing on this thread, but now from one of the PGP sites reads this. I think obviously that it was the naming of Lumumba that most reasonable people who believe in her guilt, find most hard to understand.

I believe Fiona is a social worker, so she should be well aware of the research, and even if she weren't, it was pointed out to her in 2010. She left this conversation because her reasons for being pro-guilt are emotional, not intellectual.
 
by Void-Master October 16, 2013 2:03 PM EDT
I don't know of a single person who was just so sure of her guilt that has not proven to be an idiot


I just read this on the comments section of an article that was published today,can anyone hear contradict Void-Master,has he not just summed this whole case up in twenty three words
 
The guy in the bunny suit says pure Mignini to me. But in looking at floor plans of the cottage, I can't tell exactly where that picture was taken. Anyone?

The small digital compact camera is pointing into the small bathroom. The person holding that camera is standing in the hallway outside Meredith's room, facing the doorway into the small bathroom. The person who took this photo (ie the photo of the person taking the photo) is standing inside Meredith's room.

I think it's Profazio holding that small compact digital camera. I also think it's - shall we say - "not unlikely" that Profazio (or someone acting on his behalf) might have sold the photos from this personal compact digital camera to a particular Perugia photo agency, which then sold the photo rights to a certain UK photo agency, which then licensed them to certain UK newspapers.

The very fact that some goon - Profazio or not - is going round the crime scene snapping handysnaps on his compact camera (regardless of whether they are then sold on for personal monetary gain...) is yet another dreadful indictment of the absolute unprofessionalism and malpractice that appears endemic within the Perugia branch of the State Police. If one then introduces the very real possibility that one or more members of this band of goons was enriching himself privately out of the case, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out just what level of malfeasance is involved.
 
I hope Fiona, formally writing on this thread, but now from one of the PGP sites reads this. I think obviously that it was the naming of Lumumba that most reasonable people who believe in her guilt, find most hard to understand.

Is this one of the room mates? Are you saying she posted here in the past and is now posting elsewhere?

If so, did she say anything interesting? I assume she thinks Amanda is guilty?
 
Is this one of the room mates? Are you saying she posted here in the past and is now posting elsewhere?

If so, did she say anything interesting? I assume she thinks Amanda is guilty?

No, just an unconnected commentator.

A sad and unedifying intellectual exposure.
 
by Void-Master October 16, 2013 2:03 PM EDT
I don't know of a single person who was just so sure of her guilt that has not proven to be an idiot


I just read this on the comments section of an article that was published today,can anyone hear contradict Void-Master,has he not just summed this whole case up in twenty three words

I've heard the same description about those of us that think she's innocent with the additional adjectives retard, moron & liar.

pretty pointless noise from both sides, imo
 
Is this one of the room mates? Are you saying she posted here in the past and is now posting elsewhere?

If so, did she say anything interesting? I assume she thinks Amanda is guilty?

The roommate's name is Filomena. Fiona is an intelligent British woman who was well known on JREF, and who now posts on pmf.ugh. She formally withdrew from JREF with a general complaint about posters' behavior, but if you read between the lines you knew she left because she was used to winning all arguments and she could not win one on this thread, because she believed in guilt. I think there was even a thread of people on JREF expressing their appreciation for her or something after she left.
 
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The small digital compact camera is pointing into the small bathroom. The person holding that camera is standing in the hallway outside Meredith's room, facing the doorway into the small bathroom. The person who took this photo (ie the photo of the person taking the photo) is standing inside Meredith's room.

I think it's Profazio holding that small compact digital camera. I also think it's - shall we say - "not unlikely" that Profazio (or someone acting on his behalf) might have sold the photos from this personal compact digital camera to a particular Perugia photo agency, which then sold the photo rights to a certain UK photo agency, which then licensed them to certain UK newspapers.

The very fact that some goon - Profazio or not - is going round the crime scene snapping handysnaps on his compact camera (regardless of whether they are then sold on for personal monetary gain...) is yet another dreadful indictment of the absolute unprofessionalism and malpractice that appears endemic within the Perugia branch of the State Police. If one then introduces the very real possibility that one or more members of this band of goons was enriching himself privately out of the case, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out just what level of malfeasance is involved.

I almost always find you spot-on, LondonJohn, but I'm convinced the fat man is Mignini, for at least two reasons:

1) The fat man in the photo is clean-shaven, older and broader - in his corpulence - across the shoulders than Profazio.
2) Observe the body language of the persons behind the fat man. They are deferring to this figure; behaving as minions, essentially.
 
The small digital compact camera is pointing into the small bathroom. The person holding that camera is standing in the hallway outside Meredith's room, facing the doorway into the small bathroom. The person who took this photo (ie the photo of the person taking the photo) is standing inside Meredith's room.

I think it's Profazio holding that small compact digital camera. I also think it's - shall we say - "not unlikely" that Profazio (or someone acting on his behalf) might have sold the photos from this personal compact digital camera to a particular Perugia photo agency, which then sold the photo rights to a certain UK photo agency, which then licensed them to certain UK newspapers.

The very fact that some goon - Profazio or not - is going round the crime scene snapping handysnaps on his compact camera (regardless of whether they are then sold on for personal monetary gain...) is yet another dreadful indictment of the absolute unprofessionalism and malpractice that appears endemic within the Perugia branch of the State Police. If one then introduces the very real possibility that one or more members of this band of goons was enriching himself privately out of the case, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out just what level of malfeasance is involved.

So straight ahead must be the doors to the balcony?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=bCNfUtbKJaKeiALVkYHoAQ&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAQ
 
The roommate's name is Filomena. Fiona is an intelligent British woman who was well known on JREF, and who now posts on pmf.ugh. She formally withdrew from JREF with a general complaint about posters' behavior, but if you read between the lines you knew she left because she was used to winning all arguments and she could not win one on this thread. I think there was even a thread of people expressing their appreciation for her or something after she left.


That's right, thx for the clarification, my memory ain't what it used to be
 
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