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Tricky Ways To Pull Down A Skyscraper

jaydeehess said:
Ergo says he wants reference to NIST's data used to determine that the sounds of detonations were not heard from 7WTC. First of all the reference we all know of is a simple line in the report stating that this was done and this is ergo's unsaid point. He wishes to imply that this work was not done and that therefore there is no data.

However, if he wishes to go on and state that furnishings and windows would muffle such detonations he has a problem no one has pointed out. In the case of 7WTC a large percentage of windows on the south side were taken out by the debris of both towers. On its other sides again, many windows on several floors were broken by fires. So his complaint holds little water.
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A telling point as to how quietly WTC 7 fell is that almost every camera missed the fall of the East Penthouse which started the collapse. Any cameraman, once he hears a distant, alarming sound, will turn on his camera right away. There was absolutely no tip-off to the start of the collapse. One cameraman even remarked while he was shooting that he missed it.

AFAIK, only four cameras caught it: Two mounted cameras that were running continuously, and two that were using WTC 7 as background for interviews.
 
Well, to be fair the sound would reach a person standing half a mile away about 4 seconds after the fact.
OTOH, one would expect many cameras to pan quickly over in time to catch the last 7 seconds of a collapse sequence that took over 16 seconds. Those persons as far away as a mile should have had enough time to swing the camera to catch the finale.
 
A telling point as to how quietly WTC 7 fell is that almost every camera missed the fall of the East Penthouse which started the collapse. Any cameraman, once he hears a distant, alarming sound, will turn on his camera right away. There was absolutely no tip-off to the start of the collapse. One cameraman even remarked while he was shooting that he missed it.

AFAIK, only four cameras caught it: Two mounted cameras that were running continuously, and two that were using WTC 7 as background for interviews.
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jaydeehess said:
Well, to be fair the sound would reach a person standing half a mile away about 4 seconds after the fact.
OTOH, one would expect many cameras to pan quickly over in time to catch the last 7 seconds of a collapse sequence that took over 16 seconds. Those persons as far away as a mile should have had enough time to swing the camera to catch the finale.
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I was thinking of the preliminary charges that break the horizontal connections. In the famous video of the Landmark (Texas) demolition shot from a helicopter, the first charges go off about 9 seconds before the building as a whole starts to drop.



This is the best quality video and best quality sound which catches the drop:

 
Redwood said:
I was thinking of the preliminary charges that break the horizontal connections. In the famous video of the Landmark (Texas) demolition shot from a helicopter, the first charges go off about 9 seconds before the building as a whole starts to drop.



This is the best quality video and best quality sound which catches the drop:

Click to expand...
7WTC was an open floor design though. Such preliminary charges may not be required.
What we saw happen first was apparently the destruction of col 79 causing the E. Penthouse to fall in. That could very well be the first severing required.
It would have to be quite a heavy charge since col 79 was a pretty big column. If severed at or below the eighth floor it would take some time for its collapse to propagate to the roof cave in. That alone may be long enough to cause far away camera people to notice the sound and pan over. However even if cave in was immediate there should be enough time for many shots of the final six or seven seconds.
Odd that did not happen.
 
What exactly was your point again, explosive charges placed--somewhere?--were powerful enough to break unbreakable structural supports, but left the windows intact and thus not audible. Yeah, I'm convinced.... :rolleyes:
 
jaydeehess said:
7WTC was an open floor design though. Such preliminary charges may not be required.
What we saw happen first was apparently the destruction of col 79 causing the E. Penthouse to fall in. That could very well be the first severing required.
It would have to be quite a heavy charge since col 79 was a pretty big column. If severed at or below the eighth floor it would take some time for its collapse to propagate to the roof cave in. That alone may be long enough to cause far away camera people to notice the sound and pan over. However even if cave in was immediate there should be enough time for many shots of the final six or seven seconds.
Odd that did not happen.
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Yeah, and if the Truthers say the charges severed col. 79 to initiate the collapse, they admit that there is nothing indistinguishable from a collapse due to the heat precipitated failure of col. 79. And they also have to give up their several floors of free fall chestnut, not that it really existed or proved a CD anyway.

Back to square 1 for them: Silverstein said Pull It. And he's a joooooo.
 
LSSBB said:
Yeah, and if the Truthers say the charges severed col. 79 to initiate the collapse, they admit that there is nothing indistinguishable from a collapse due to the heat precipitated failure of col. 79. And they also have to give up their several floors of free fall chestnut, not that it really existed or proved a CD anyway.
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There are other explanations to account for the drop of column 79... look below flr 8 and see how it was connected to transfer truss 1... which could have failed and pulled it westward.
 
JSanderO said:
There are other explanations to account for the drop of column 79... look below flr 8 and see how it was connected to transfer truss 1... which could have failed and pulled it westward.
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There possibly could, JSO. That makes it even worse for the Truthers to acknowledge the solution lay in a CD of the column, they then reduce themselves to one of many possibilities in trade for fitting the observables.
 
Redwood said:
This is the best quality video and best quality sound which catches the drop:

Click to expand...



Here's another one, from closer.





Notice how they're talking to each other in the background, and only start reacting to the collapse after the façade has dropped several stories. They didn't hear a thing, they're reacting to seeing the drop. The East penthouse falls at about 3 seconds, they react at about 11 seconds or so, so about 8 full seconds after the explosives would have to have started going off. No way the delay in sound travel could account for that.
 
Horatius said:
Notice how they're talking to each other in the background, and only start reacting to the collapse after the façade has dropped several stories. They didn't hear a thing, they're reacting to seeing the drop. The East penthouse falls at about 3 seconds, they react at about 11 seconds or so, so about 8 full seconds after the explosives would have to have started going off. No way the delay in sound travel could account for that.
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Like all 911CT, the explosives theory doesn't hold water if you bother to do the slightest research. Strange such devoted seekers of the truth wouldn't notice things like this after 12 years of diligent study. :rolleyes:
 
brazenlilraisin said:
What exactly was your point again, explosive charges placed--somewhere?--were powerful enough to break unbreakable structural supports, but left the windows intact and thus not audible.
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No, <SNIP>

Edited by Locknar: 
Edited, breach of rule 12.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Answer me this ergo, with dozens of windows smashed either by aircraft impact or debris impact, how would those windows manage to attenuate the sounds of explosions in either the tower's initial collapses, or at any point on 7WTC's collapse?

In the case of the towers , what would you expect was the disposition of office furnishings a few seconds after aircraft impacts,?

Eta: and what the Sam Hill does post 75 mean? You drunk last the time?
 
Horatius said:
Here's another one, from closer.





Notice how they're talking to each other in the background, and only start reacting to the collapse after the façade has dropped several stories. They didn't hear a thing, they're reacting to seeing the drop. The East penthouse falls at about 3 seconds, they react at about 11 seconds or so, so about 8 full seconds after the explosives would have to have started going off. No way the delay in sound travel could account for that.
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That's one of the two mounted, continuously filming cameras I was referring to. It's part of this complete reel.



At the end, you can hear Vince Dementri of CBS ask if they caught it. His other cameraman wasn't shooting continuously and missed the onset. You can hear him remarking to that effect in this video.



Many cameramen started filming the collapse after it had begun, hearing the commotion around them. Many truthers find that very suspicious. The simple explanation that the onset was very quiet eludes them. Funny, you'd think they'd be arguing it was because of that Hush-a-Boom Nanothermite. :rolleyes:
 
Redwood said:
That's one of the two mounted, continuously filming cameras I was referring to. It's part of this complete reel.



At the end, you can hear Vince Dementri of CBS ask if they caught it. His other cameraman wasn't shooting continuously and missed the onset. You can hear him remarking to that effect in this video.



Many cameramen started filming the collapse after it had begun, hearing the commotion around them. Many truthers find that very suspicious. The simple explanation that the onset was very quiet eludes them. Funny, you'd think they'd be arguing it was because of that Hush-a-Boom Nanothermite. :rolleyes:
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At 7:25 in the first video you can see a discoloration occur across the building and the first few windows break, along with the penthouse tilting in. There should have been a boom at that point plus the distance to the mic divided by the speed of sound, if explosives were used.
 
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