Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[codyjuneau]

RW - I have never seen a basketball player make the athletic move of the rock climber. I don't doubt that it is possible that Rudi could make it, but I don't think it would have been as easy as it looked on the recreation.

Look at how the lawyer climbed the window grate. I think Rudi as an untrained climber would have done it more like the lawyer climbed. As I've said before I don't think the shutters were closed that night. I do think Rudy tossed the rock. I think it more likely that he talked Meredith into letting him in and that she didn't notice the little hole in the window.

.
When I was a kid, my pals and I climbed just about anything that was climbable. We did not need instruction and technique, we just did it. It was instinctive and compelling, a throwback to our roots I guess. I think most boys are natural little monkeys.
.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Corriere Dell'Umbria is reporting that the knife DNA sample has been attributed to #AmandaKnox.

Yes, see article headline I just posted above.

 

[snook1]

That's interesting, isn't it?

 

[Kaosium]

So nothing new, and hardly a surprise they found more of Amanda's DNA by sampling near the handle where her DNA was already found.

I wonder if there will be any Bad Little Bunnies who will be overrunning the comments sections saying 'Amanda's DNA on the murder knife confirmed! It looks ominous for Knox and Sollecito.'

 

[Diocletus]

Ha, that could well be.

In the meantime, some are already tweeting that it belongs to Amanda, as per:

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news/perugia/129229/Analizzata-la-terza-traccia-sul-coltello.html

But that's impossible. You see, this knife was washed with bleach. Well, except for the numerous places where DNA turns out to be. And also all the crud from food preparation.

Maybe it was washed with some sort of blood-removing, DNA-preserving stuff? And then they put some food on it? I don't know. It's so confusing.

 

[smkovalinksy]

But that's impossible. You see, this knife was washed with bleach. Well, except for the numerous places where DNA turns out to be. And also all the crud from food preparation.

Maybe it was washed with some sort of blood-removing, DNA-preserving stuff? And then they put some food on it? I don't know. It's so confusing.

Yes, it is very confusing: And I think the Italian media is trying to make it more than it is.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

magic cleaning fluid explained to a lay audience

But that's impossible. You see, this knife was washed with bleach. Well, except for the numerous places where DNA turns out to be. And also all the crud from food preparation.

Maybe it was washed with some sort of blood-removing, DNA-preserving stuff? And then they put some food on it? I don't know. It's so confusing.

It was cleaned osmotically.

 

[snook1]

As Rose said earlier, LOL.

 

[Kaosium]

Yes, it is very confusing: And I think the Italian media is trying to make it more than it is.

I don't suppose any of them are going with the actual relevance this has, are they?

As in "yet more evidence that knife was never 'extremely clean' or even 'clean' but more like 'college student clean' and as such did not have all the blood traces removed and had to do with the murder?"

Then they might ask the real question: how did that smidgin of Meredith's DNA get on Raffaele's knife that never left the drawer that night?

No, I didn't think so. Calunnia rules, they obey.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I don't suppose any of them are going with the actual relevance this has, are they?

As in "yet more evidence that knife was never 'extremely clean' or even 'clean' but more like 'college student clean' and as such did not have all the blood traces removed and had to do with the murder?"

Then they might ask the real question: how did that smidgin of Meredith's DNA get on Raffaele's knife that never left the drawer that night?

No, I didn't think so. Calunnia rules, they obey.

Well, considering all that has gone before, I fail to see how this knife evidence will determine a ruling, and make or break the trial, as was reported prior to this retrial opening in Florence. How can this be the determining factor, at this late date, and with such a tiny amount of material, and with a multitude of conflicting stories?

 

[Diocletus]

So now it's the "Triple-DNA knife"? Or, should it be the "Starchy Triple-DNA Knife"?

I'd like to propose that we test to see whether this knife has more DNA and starch than a Quarter-Pounder with cheese. I think we should donate it to Sally Jenkins. She could feed a whole village in Africa off of the stuff on this knife.

 

[Diocletus]

Well, considering all that has gone before, I fail to see how this knife evidence will determine a ruling, and make or break the trial, as was reported prior to this retrial opening in Florence. How can this be the determining factor, at this late date, and with such a tiny amount of material, and with a multitude of conflicting stories?

Because it's "decisive"!

It's so decisive that the prosecution had to have a hissy fit and we had to reverse an acquittal just to get these incredible test results.

 

[Bill Williams]

I don't suppose any of them are going with the actual relevance this has, are they?

As in "yet more evidence that knife was never 'extremely clean' or even 'clean' but more like 'college student clean' and as such did not have all the blood traces removed and had to do with the murder?"

Then they might ask the real question: how did that smidgin of Meredith's DNA get on Raffaele's knife that never left the drawer that night?

No, I didn't think so. Calunnia rules, they obey.

Well, considering all that has gone before, I fail to see how this knife evidence will determine a ruling, and make or break the trial, as was reported prior to this retrial opening in Florence. How can this be the determining factor, at this late date, and with such a tiny amount of material, and with a multitude of conflicting stories?

There's also the matter of chain of possession.

Will Nencini and the Florence court be rigourous about chain of possession? There are so many reasons to simply toss this knife.....

This knife is also intimately linked to any theory of premeditation for the crime. As Judge Massei found out in writing his 2010 motivations report, to have this knife involved in a non-premeditated crime involves inventing more stuff about the reason why it, that night, migrated from Raffaele's to the cottage.

How many improbabilities does an Italian court need before the "osmotic" evaluation of it deems this knife as completely worthless?

 

[smkovalinksy]

There's also the matter of chain of possession.

Will Nencini and the Florence court be rigourous about chain of possession? There are so many reasons to simply toss this knife.....

This knife is also intimately linked to any theory of premeditation for the crime. As Judge Massei found out in writing his 2010 motivations report, to have this knife involved in a non-premeditated crime involves inventing more stuff about the reason why it, that night, migrated from Raffaele's to the cottage.

How many improbabilities does an Italian court need before the "osmotic" evaluation of it deems this knife as completely worthless?

Yes, I feel this makes the prosecution look somewhat ridiculous. It's just not solid for a myriad of reasons. If this is their big moment, they are not doing all that well...

 

[smkovalinksy]

Actually some who support guilt for Knox are now saying this is not really good news:

It would only be good news for the prosecution if the dna belonged to Kercher herself.

There are innocent explanations for the presence of a tiny bit of Knox dna and those in the pro-guilt camp, along with the prosecution, know this.

So this is actually good news for the defense, and weakens the knife evidence, which has now lost its central place : It will be the totality of evidence that will be judged.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

DNA in the Yeates case

The Telegraph reported in January of 2011, "Partial DNA profiles were found on the 25 year-old's breasts, stomach and jeans which are thought to be from her attacker's saliva.
They could rule out suspects but may not be sufficient to prove that an individual is guilty."

My point is that DNA from an assault is not always associated with the intimate areas of the victim's body (these were only partial profiles, which weakens its value as evidence somewhat). This absence is another stone in the mountain of missing evidence against Knox or Sollecito.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not the best practices in the collection of evidence

There was no reason whatsoever for anyone to unpack and repackage the knife. Compounding the error, it was unwise to assign officer Gubbiotti to anything having to do with evidence collected at Sollecito’s flat, given the fact that he had been to the women’s flat on the same day. Reporting on the Patrick Waring case Estelle Blackburn wrote, “In court, police conceded they had not followed best practice in the case. Various officers said that the Central Park scene was left unguarded from 1.25am on the night, it was a week before it was searched, and the same officers had visited the homes of the girl and the accused which allowed for contamination of evidence.” What is not best practice in Perth is not best practice in Perugia.

 

[Diocletus]

There was no reason whatsoever for anyone to unpack and repackage the knife. Compounding the error, it was unwise to assign officer Gubbiotti to anything having to do with evidence collected at Sollecito’s flat, given the fact that he had been to the women’s flat on the same day. Reporting on the Patrick Waring case Estelle Blackburn wrote, “In court, police conceded they had not followed best practice in the case. Various officers said that the Central Park scene was left unguarded from 1.25am on the night, it was a week before it was searched, and the same officers had visited the homes of the girl and the accused which allowed for contamination of evidence.” What is not best practice in Perth is not best practice in Perugia.

Not only that, but Giobbiotti was compiling a report of the evidence, which means that he was likely handling all sorts of bloody items from Kercher's room.

It seems like Stefanoni only took the downstairs/outside samples with her when left for Rome on the 5th, and its possible that the stuff from kercher's room was left behind for the Perugia cops to catalogue.

Also, I'll bet the evidence bags and envelopes were contaminated on the outside.

 

[Kaosium]

Well, considering all that has gone before, I fail to see how this knife evidence will determine a ruling, and make or break the trial, as was reported prior to this retrial opening in Florence. How can this be the determining factor, at this late date, and with such a tiny amount of material, and with a multitude of conflicting stories?

I don't know, I wasn't actually paying very close attention when the new trial started, I wasn't following those stories.

If any of that was because of something the new prosecutor had said, that might be an encouraging sign for Raffaele and Amanda. He might have decided to have that determination 'make or break the case' which gives him an easy out if it came up anything but Meredith.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I don't know, I wasn't actually paying very close attention when the new trial started, I wasn't following those stories.

If any of that was because of something the new prosecutor had said, that might be an encouraging sign for Raffaele and Amanda. He might have decided to have that determination 'make or break the case' which gives him an easy out if it came up anything but Meredith.

You may be right on that. I guess we will see what they say on Nov. 6.