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Adding a little to what I posted earlier, yes, the video contains a basic truth. It just happens that the basic truth is essentially trivial and tautological. The harm done to Massachusetts by enfranchising gays is that gays are now enfranchised. The video is very convincing on this.

I suppose it's a horrible thing for some people that they can no longer discriminate, and cannot urge their kids to beat up other kids they suspect of being queer, at least in school. What's the world coming to, eh?

I live in Vermont, where civil union was invented, though we missed the boat on being the first to get gay marriage. I have a news flash in case anybody missed the impact of this. The impact of this.....get ready for the shocking news....is......well, I'd better hide it to protect sensitive eyes from the burn...
if you're gay, things are a little nicer.


Godawful.
 
bruto said:
Adding a little to what I posted earlier, yes, the video contains a basic truth. It just happens that the basic truth is essentially trivial and tautological. The harm done to Massachusetts by enfranchising gays is that gays are now enfranchised. The video is very convincing on this.

I suppose it's a horrible thing for some people that they can no longer discriminate, and cannot urge their kids to beat up other kids they suspect of being queer, at least in school. What's the world coming to, eh?

I live in Vermont, where civil union was invented, though we missed the boat on being the first to get gay marriage. I have a news flash in case anybody missed the impact of this. The impact of this.....get ready for the shocking news....is......well, I'd better hide it to protect sensitive eyes from the burn...
if you're gay, things are a little nicer.


Godawful.
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How can you LIVE with yourselves?
 
The fact that not everyone of their race/religion/sexual orientation shares their bigotry towards people of a different race/religion/sexual orientation is one that most bigots seem to have a hard time grasping. The developments that the frothing bigot in that video complains about are, to me, cause for celebration.
 
Janadele said:
"If memory serves" is not a basis for stating what another poster has supposedly "dismissed".
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I see. Then you agree with Brigham young that polygamy is essential to salvation.

Now that we have that out of the way, let's get back to the question you keep dodging:

halleyscomet said:
Janadele said:
"Members who violate the Lord’s law of chastity or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline."
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Members
Members
Members

Why then, is the LDS church getting involved in the Marriage Equality debate, as their meddling impacts NON-Members?

My lesbian friends are NOT Mormon. By your own church's guidelines, the LDS church has NO authority over them and thus, no right to keep them from marrying.
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halleyscomet said:
I see. Then you agree with Brigham young that polygamy is essential to salvation.

Now that we have that out of the way, let's get back to the question you keep dodging:
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Janadele is on another little vacay from the forum, so, alas, it will be a while before she even manages a nice copypasta answer to your question.
 
Empress said:
Janadele is on another little vacay from the forum, so, alas, it will be a while before she even manages a nice copypasta answer to your question.
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Suspended, left in a huff or dealing with more important real world issues?
 
Janadele said:
Listen to the end of this video for many of the answers to questions which have been asked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZX55HUPFSU
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During the Prop 8 trial (affectionately called the Mormon Proposition), the judge asked if the defense would supply expert testimony. In the end they did not (the only supposed "expert" witness was ruled out as an expert).

In any event, when asked why there was no such testimony, the atty for the defense, David Boies had this to say “The witness stand, under oath, is a lonely place to lie.”

I urge everyone to watch the entire video.



It's one thing for an idiot can lie on the internet. It's another to do so under oath. Sure, there are so called experts who, for a price, will sell their lies but that can be a dangerous game and one needs some basis to call the opposing sides case into question. There just isn't any when it comes to gay marriage. All data thus far demonstrates that other than the harm of bigotry gay families are normative.
 
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Empress said:
She got herself a 7-day suspension. If she keeps this up, she'll be able to add another notch to her belt. One more forum where she was banned for just speaking the truth to the evil atheists who refuse to listen and obey the word of god. She's a legend in her own mind. :rolleyes:
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Let me guess, more unattributed or poorly attributed copypasta in place of actual discussion?

You'd think after this many bans for behavior that isn't even relevant to the arguments she's trying to make she'd have learned the lesson.
 
halleyscomet said:
Let me guess, more unattributed or poorly attributed copypasta in place of actual discussion?

You'd think after this many bans for behavior that isn't even relevant to the arguments she's trying to make she'd have learned the lesson.
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Her posts say she's here to teach, not learn. If she had a hat it'd be a better act, I always believe the Word'o'God when it comes thru a fedora.
 
tsig said:
Her posts say she's here to teach, not learn. If she had a hat it'd be a better act, I always believe the Word'o'God when it comes thru a fedora.
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Shame she didn't choose to teach a subject that she knew more about than many of the posters here. Like being a zombie mouthpiece for her church. Alas, she chose Mormonism, and her ignorance on the subject is available for all to see.
 
Empress said:
Shame she didn't choose to teach a subject that she knew more about than many of the posters here. Like being a zombie mouthpiece for her church. Alas, she chose Mormonism, and her ignorance on the subject is available for all to see.
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Well, she is trying to put a shine on a dirt clod. She could be the most knowledgeable person about Mormonism in the world and it wouldn't make the stories in the BoM true or the BoA says what her church says it does.
 
tsig said:
Her posts say she's here to teach, not learn. If she had a hat it'd be a better act, I always believe the Word'o'God when it comes thru a fedora.
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Then she's an incompetent teacher. I hope it's not her profession.

Even a bad teacher knows you have to answer the questions students raise if you expect them to learn anything. Dodging questions and answering with little more than "That's the way it is because I say so" is the behavior of a "teacher" who only keeps his or her job through political maneuvering, union protection or sexual favors to superiors.

A teacher who refuses to learn anything from her students is inept and needs replacing.
 
A FAIR ASSESSMENT

Craig4 said:
Well, she is trying to put a shine on a dirt clod. She could be the most knowledgeable person about Mormonism in the world and it wouldn't make the stories in the BoM true or the BoA says what her church says it does.
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Here's what the Mormon apologists say:

Ass - the horse-like tapir is a possibility
Bees - not required in the Americas by the text, but pre-Columbian examples also exist
Cow - bovine species (e.g. buffalo) were present in the Americas, and there is also ample precedent for naming different animals with common names, and there are other New World candidates, such as deer and tapirs. Elephant - only necessary in the Jaredite era, there is both traditional, inscriptional, and biologic remains as evidence for the Book of Mormon's claims
Horse - there is some evidence, not yet deemed definitive, which suggests that the true horse may have been known in at least some parts of Mesoamerica in pre-Columbian times before Christ. There is also ample precedent for naming different animals with common names, and there are other New World candidates, such as deer and tapirs. Silkworms - present in the New World with other options also available for silk cloth; see silk
Swine - native swine species existed, though only Jaredite use is noted (unsurprisingly, since Nephites were under the law of Moses).

Tapirs seem to be remarkably difficult to see properly.:)

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Animals

Their explanation for steel is that the Jews had actually discovered it much earlier.

Every commentator on the Book of Mormon has pointed out the many cultural and historical anachronisms, such as steel. A steel sword of Laban in 600 B.C.”
We had no answer to these critics at the time, but, as often happens in these matters, new discoveries in later years shed new light. Roper reports, “it is increasingly apparent that the practice of hardening iron through deliberate carburization, quenching and tempering was well known to the ancient world from which Nephi came “It seems evident” notes one recent authority, “that by the beginning of the tenth century B.C. blacksmiths were intentionally steeling iron.” In 1987, the Ensign reported that archaeologists had unearthed a long steel sword near Jericho dating back to the late 7th century B.C., probably to the reign of King Josiah, who died shortly before Lehi began to prophesy. This sword is now on display at Jerusalem’s Israel Museum,

Fancy sidestepping and leaping upon conclusions.

This is their best.
 
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Did their enemies fall over laughing when they saw the tapirs pulling the chariots? I'm trying to envision the play/movie "War Tapir". A tapir, a tapir, my kingdom for a tapir! I've been through the desert on a tapir with no name, it felt good to get out of the rain. Look daddy, here come the Budweiser Tapirs. Yeah... not really seeing it.

Seriously though, these apologetic types fail to grasp the impact of things like horse, chariots, steel, cultivated barley on the lifeways of the people with the animals or materials. Steel in pre Colombian Mezo America would mean a whole different way of living. The problem isn't that no one found steel, chariots or horses. There aren't cultures with the lifeways of people who have steel, chariots or horses in pre-Colombian America.
 
tsig said:
A FAIR ASSESSMENT



Here's what the Mormon apologists say:

Ass - the horse-like tapir is a possibility
Bees - not required in the Americas by the text, but pre-Columbian examples also exist
Cow - bovine species (e.g. buffalo) were present in the Americas, and there is also ample precedent for naming different animals with common names, and there are other New World candidates, such as deer and tapirs. Elephant - only necessary in the Jaredite era, there is both traditional, inscriptional, and biologic remains as evidence for the Book of Mormon's claims
Horse - there is some evidence, not yet deemed definitive, which suggests that the true horse may have been known in at least some parts of Mesoamerica in pre-Columbian times before Christ. There is also ample precedent for naming different animals with common names, and there are other New World candidates, such as deer and tapirs. Silkworms - present in the New World with other options also available for silk cloth; see silk
Swine - native swine species existed, though only Jaredite use is noted (unsurprisingly, since Nephites were under the law of Moses).

Tapirs seem to be remarkably difficult to see properly.:)
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These tapirs seem to be quite accomplished shape-shifters! First they are describes as "horse-like", then they appear to be cattle-shaped. Which is a good trick for an animal which closely resembles a pig, and is only about a metre tall at the shoulder.

Oh, and the babies are spotty and stripy, which is quite distinctive; one would have thought that a culture which called tapir "horses" would mention the strange look of the "foals".

Why, it's almost as if JS made the whole thing up.
 
Dissolution said:
Have these people ever seen a tapir?
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In the zoo, I think I once saw some. It seems a bit far fetched to believe that a tapir could be mistaken for a cow, a horse and an ass all at the same time, especially in North America where it seems to have been extinct for about ten millennia. I have not read the BoM, so I do not know if there is an allegation that the so called cows were milked or the so called horses and asses ridden, but I wonder whether tapir milk is a good bargain. I'm a bit surprised that, with its pendulous snout, it is not standing in for the elephant too.

As so often seems the case in things like this, the best escape hatch from mendacity appears to be idiocy.

If you smear your shoes with excrement because you mean to, it's very bad. If you do it because you really thought it was Shinola, it's not really a whole lot better.
 
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