LDS

[skyrider44]

Being intolerant of intolerance is not hypocritical.

Unless one is himself/herself intolerant. A pending post will show some on this forum have been intolerant--sometimes in crude language--of Janadele. There is something hypocritical about that.

 

[Slowvehicle]

If you don't know what it discloses, there isn't anything I can offer in terms of remedial counsel.

Then, out of the blue, you launch into yet another diatribe against LDS historicity.

Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you. Why the obsession? Has the Church injured you in some way . . .driven you from your home . . . sent you a bill for past-due tithing . . . forced you to wear garments . . . marched you at gunpoint to pick apples on a stake farm . . .caused you to be fired from you job? Surely there must be some explanation for the 24/7 vilification of the LDS Church .

You will, of course, be offering evidence for anyone in these parts who could reasonably said to "vilify" the CJCLDS twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week? Especially given the overwhelmingly positive responses to cat tale's posts?

Or will you, instead, return to topic and explain how your superstitions about the events leading to, and resulting from, the "second coming" are supposed to somehow retroactively repair demonstrably ahistorical, contrafactual assertions?

 

[Olowkow]

Originally Posted by JoeBentley
Being intolerant of intolerance is not hypocritical.

Unless one is himself/herself intolerant....

That one just seems a bit of a non sequitur, to me.

You are welcome to ignore my posts but, you and Janadele need to understand that you are posting in a skeptics' forum populated by many quite intelligent people who have long ago figured out that the superstitions that organized religions propagate are nonsense, often at great personal risk and loss of family or friend relationships.

To accuse any one of us of being intolerant of this continuous BS about gods and books written by gods and angels and bogus history is just boring sophistry, and often condescendingly annoying. Pushing the issue is not going to accomplish anything here, and will serve only to further hurt your feelings. That is guaranteed.

If you feel wronged, report the posts as abusive rather than attempting to convince us that your feelings are hurt. If you don't trust the mods, you are not under any requirement to post further. Proselytizing will not be permitted by them, that is for sure. Remember we don't go door to door, we just wait for the righteous to stumble into our web.

 

[deaman]

Skyrider44 -

How does what you perceive Janadele to have suffered in this thread, make you feel?

 

[gabeygoat]

Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you.

Because the church actively inserts itself into politics, specifically, trying to smother equal rights.

 

[tsig]

If you don't know what it discloses, there isn't anything I can offer in terms of remedial counsel.

Then, out of the blue, you launch into yet another diatribe against LDS historicity.

Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you. Why the obsession? Has the Church injured you in some way . . .driven you from your home . . . sent you a bill for past-due tithing . . . forced you to wear garments . . . marched you at gunpoint to pick apples on a stake farm . . .caused you to be fired from you job? Surely there must be some explanation for the 24/7 vilification of the LDS Church.

Just following Satan's orders.

 

[Foster Zygote]

If you don't know what it discloses, there isn't anything I can offer in terms of remedial counsel.

So, really, you've got nothing. It was simply a viscerally motivated attempt to discredit me, and therefor, in your mind, the evidence against Joseph Smith that I am presenting. A true ad hominem fallacy.

Then, out of the blue, you launch into yet another diatribe against LDS historicity.

What you call a "diatribe" is what others call an observation based on clear evidence. Joseph Smith is a transparent fraud. This is something that you are clearly unwilling to address, hence the repeated attempts to change the subject. If my statements are merely a "diatribe", then why can't you show us that the Book Of Abraham is not a bald-faced lie?

Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you. Why the obsession? Has the Church injured you in some way . . .driven you from your home . . . sent you a bill for past-due tithing . . . forced you to wear garments . . . marched you at gunpoint to pick apples on a stake farm . . .caused you to be fired from you job? Surely there must be some explanation for the 24/7 vilification of the LDS Church.

You're playing the victim once more. Yet again, I'll have to remind you that Janadele started this thread of her own volition with a claim regarding the truth of Mormonism, in a forum with the openly stated purpose of discussing the evidence for and against various metaphysical claims. You also joined this discussion of your own volition, no doubt at Janadele's invitation. If having the glaring inconsistencies of your faith pointed out to you by those who have not been indoctrinated to resist subjecting it to critical scrutiny causes you such distress, then I suggest you simply refrain from participating in this forum any further.

But while were at it, let's talk about why one might want to publicly point out that Mormonism is based on false claims: I, personally, have not been impeded by the LDS, but many within the LDS church have used their considerable monetary influence to attempt to interfere in the lives of, and restrict the freedoms of, consenting adults who are causing no harm to anyone and simply wish to share their lives with the people whom they love, with the same legal social benefits as everyone else. The justification used for oppressing these people by many (but not all) Mormons is derived from the claim that the LDS church has access to universal, objective morality as prescribed by an ultimate supernatural authority. If, upon close examination, those claims are revealed to be based on the lies of a confidence man, then I can think of no reason not to point this out to everyone who cares to participate in a discussion such as this.

 

[gabeygoat]

Just following Satan's orders.

that too.

 

[fromdownunder]

In other words, it's perfectly fine for Person B to adopt Person A's bigotry and intolerance by responding with bigotry and intolerance of his/her own.

...is this an admission that ate least some of "Peron A's" posts contained bigotry?

If so,

Norm

 

[deaman]

Have you noticed that when you have a questions about peoples actions here on the JREF board, you get answers. Straight answers.

But, when questions are asked of you about anachronisms in the BofM such as the use of steel and horses, DNA evidence that points to American Indian heritage as being other than stated in the BofM, the BofA being an Egyptian funerary document, the changing of the stance on polygomy, the changing of the stance on priesthood for black people, the condemnation of LGBT folks, there doesn't seem to be any straight answers.

Why?

I think it's because the Book of Mormon is a fraud, and that the Church is taking advantage of people, peoples hopes, peoples emotions, peoples money and peoples fears.

This is why I speak up.

 

[Tricky]

Yes, sometimes a person's intolerance causes another person to become intolerant of them. This is human nature. Frankly, I find this Grandpa quite admirable.

 

[tsig]

that too.

Well that sermon he was preaching usually winds up with "Why else would Satan fight so hard against us if we didn't have God's Truth" so I thought I'd just admit to the fantasy.

Besides Satan told me to.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Yes, sometimes a person's intolerance causes another person to become intolerant of them. This is human nature. Frankly, I find this Grandpa quite admirable.

Which is the more objectionable action: Telling a gay or lesbian person, "I think the way you live you life is an abomination against all that it objectively moral", or telling someone who would say such a thing, "That's a horribly bigoted and hurtful thing to say"?

 

[deaman]

Yes, sometimes a person's intolerance causes another person to become intolerant of them. This is human nature. Frankly, I find this Grandpa quite admirable.

Skyrider44, you are dealing with real people who are using their capabilities to examine real evidence. Not some mythical, idealist, make-believe god who blesses you with incredible powers to do good.

Many times I have asked Janadele (and youself, I think) direct questions which you have rudely left unanswered. You bypassed them, I think, because you have no "real" answer. You even stated you "didn't know" what to think about the BofA debacle.

When Janadele brought up people being driven out of business for thier Mormon beliefs, I asked why god did not help them, if the people in question were doing his business? Why did god let them down so badly?

To which I have to add, why aren't you using the gift of the priesthood power to blow everybody away, with eternal, deep wisdom? Why are you not able to shame everybody here with Jesus Saviour like answers?

Frankly, you seem to be sinking in a mire of emotionalism. It's kind of sad and pathetic. I am sorry if that makes you made, but I am telling you how it looks from my point of view.

 

[Craig4]

If you don't know what it discloses, there isn't anything I can offer in terms of remedial counsel.

Then, out of the blue, you launch into yet another diatribe against LDS historicity.

Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you. Why the obsession? Has the Church injured you in some way . . .driven you from your home . . . sent you a bill for past-due tithing . . . forced you to wear garments . . . marched you at gunpoint to pick apples on a stake farm . . .caused you to be fired from you job? Surely there must be some explanation for the 24/7 vilification of the LDS Church.

Why your obsession with staying with a belief that is incorrect?

 

[Agatha]

If you don't know what it discloses, there isn't anything I can offer in terms of remedial counsel.

Then, out of the blue, you launch into yet another diatribe against LDS historicity.

Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you.

Because falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.

Why the obsession? Has the Church injured you in some way . . .driven you from your home . . . sent you a bill for past-due tithing . . . forced you to wear garments . . . marched you at gunpoint to pick apples on a stake farm . . .caused you to be fired from you job? Surely there must be some explanation for the 24/7 vilification of the LDS Church.

I don't think hyperbole helps your case; nobody is vilifying your faith or your God, only the demonstrable lies emanating from the church (and Janadele's bigoted views, which appears to be only tangentially related to her faith and more to do with her own intolerance of others).

The respectful and positive reception accorded to Cat Tale and her posts shows that it is not the church per se that is being objected to in this thread, but the deliberate frauds involved in the development of the church.

 

[pakeha]

...Why does it matter to you if, as you claim, the LDS Church is a fraud and the BoM and BA were written by Joseph Smith, who was a con man? Tell me why it matters to you. Why the obsession? Has the Church injured you in some way . . .driven you from your home . . . sent you a bill for past-due tithing . . . forced you to wear garments . . . marched you at gunpoint to pick apples on a stake farm . . .caused you to be fired from you job? Surely there must be some explanation for the 24/7 vilification of the LDS Church.

...why aren't you using the gift of the priesthood power to blow everybody away, with eternal, deep wisdom? Why are you not able to shame everybody here with Jesus Saviour like answers? ...

deamon, you beat me to posting that question!
My own take is that intellectual dishonesty (BoA) and the trumping of objective truths with 'revelations' should be countered and denounced 24/7.
The JREF has provided us with a forum where we can question and debunk institutions which foster dishonesty, as the LDS does.
Is it possible your beliefs blind you to the intellectual thievery that's the LDS?

I say thievery with full intent, as I consider an institution which fosters the acceptance of a lie as spiritually rewarding (BoA) is committing theft, the theft and undermining of it's followers' ability to think critically and objectively.

I've repeatedly asked LDS members here to explain what possible spiritual truths/insights can derive from consciously deciding to buy into a scam, referring specifically to the BoA.
The consensus amongst you isn't much more than 'I find reading the BoA to be of value'

Janadele has posted up the LDS defenses of the authenticity of the text and in fact is the only Mormon here to offer more than 'I find reading the BoA to be of value'. Respect!

IMO, nothing can justify trying to perpetrate the BoA scam.

 

[dafydd]

In other words, it's perfectly fine for Person B to adopt Person A's bigotry and intolerance by responding with bigotry and intolerance of his/her own.

Person B has the right to react to an intolerant religious bigot. What do you think of her viewpoint?

 

[Dissolution]

Pointing out bigotry is not bigotry.
Questioning apparent falsehood is not persecution.

 

[RandFan]

Well that sermon he was preaching usually winds up with "Why else would Satan fight so hard against us if we didn't have God's Truth" so I thought I'd just admit to the fantasy.

Besides Satan told me to.

Next time you see him tell him I didn't get much for selling my soul. I'd like something a bit more substantive than a bowl of nachos. You can't trust the guy.