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I have heard of a few instances where businesses refused services to homosexual couples. In none of the ones I've heard of were the services unusual. These were businesses that advertise certain services, such as baking and catering and hosting events, which did not, in their advertising, note their limitations. If Janadele knows of something else she should cite it, because these examples are not the thing she is contending.

If you advertise a service it is presumed you will provide that service. We're not talking here about a kosher butcher being forced to sell pork, or a Catholic priest being forced to celebrate a gay wedding. It is not legal for a baker to advertise cookies and then refuse to sell them to gay people, or for an inn to advertise that it hosts weddings and then to cancel a wedding that has been booked.

Perhaps things are being done differently in Australia.
 
Slowvehicle said:
Janadele: You have not supported a single one of your hate-driven, fear-based, bigoted lies. Not one.
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I think this bears repeating, and emphasizing.

Janadele, thankfully, most Mormons I've met are not like you. And you're certainly not putting the LDS in a good light.
 
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Janadele said:
The denseness and inability to comprehend English demonstrated by some posters in this thread, continues to amaze me. Simple sentences are misconstrued, their meanings twisted, distorted and misinterpreted, by the otherwise seemingly intelligent. This could only be from the influence of Lucifer, who delights in confusion and in clouding the minds of those who allow him so to do.
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Well, don't be so hard on yourself. You can't help it. It's Lucifer doing it to you.
 
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I don't remember JC leaving people out of the kingdom of heaven. Some people like to invent certain conventions to match their preconceived notions. "Ye without sin cast the first stone" is often forgotten.

ETA: At risk of being suspended, I want to say that Janadele's words are hateful, bigoted, and obscene. She has finally shown her true colors.
 
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Janadele said:
The following facts are simple and should be easy for all to comprehend... a baker is requested to bake a rainbow cake and to decorate it to depict a same sex couple supposedly entering into a "marriage", the baker rightly believes that by doing so he would be demonstrating approval and support for a "celebration" which he considers to be grossly immoral and against the commandment of his God. This should be his choice to make, instead he is summoned to court, fined, his business closed and his livelihood taken from him. This is how the followers of Lucifer try to force their evil immoral standards upon others in the name of "discrimination".
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Why the lies, Janadele? Isn't bearing false witness against the ninth commandment?

Someone who wants to operate a business has to do that within the law in his jurisdiction. Oregon law does not permit discrimination on the grounds of race, gender, creed or orientation. If the baker is not prepared to follow all of the law, not just the bits he personally approves of, then he is likely to find himself in legal trouble. Despite what you assert, he does not have the legal right to discriminate based on his religious beliefs unless he is a religious organisation.

Despite your falsehoods above, the baker wasn't taken to court, if he was fined I cannot find evidence of it on the web, he chose to move his business from his store to his home, and his livelihood wasn't taken from him except by customers who exercised their right as consumers not to buy cakes from him any longer.

As a matter of fact, they are still in business as a search of their name (sweet cakes by Melissa) will attest. As the same baker has no problem with producing and selling divorce cakes, stem cell research cakes, pagan and Muslim holiday cakes and Wiccan marriage rite celebration cakes, his understanding of his God's commandments was already very poor.

Janadele, none of us can prevent your hatred and bigotry from damaging you. But we can urge you to see past your hatred, to understand that if your God is a kind, just and loving God who cares for all of His creation, as I am assured by several pro-Mormon sites, then He would abhor the kind of bigotry and hatred for your fellow human beings that you display here on this thread.
 
Janadele said:
The denseness and inability to comprehend English demonstrated by some posters in this thread, continues to amaze me. Simple sentences are misconstrued, their meanings twisted, distorted and misinterpreted, by the otherwise seemingly intelligent. This could only be from the influence of Lucifer, who delights in confusion and in clouding the minds of those who allow him so to do.
The following facts are simple and should be easy for all to comprehend... a baker is requested to bake a rainbow cake and to decorate it to depict a same sex couple supposedly entering into a "marriage", the baker rightly believes that by doing so he would be demonstrating approval and support for a "celebration" which he considers to be grossly immoral and against the commandment of his God. This should be his choice to make, instead he is summoned to court, fined, his business closed and his livelihood taken from him. This is how the followers of Lucifer try to force their evil immoral standards upon others in the name of "discrimination".
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Agatha said:
Why the lies, Janadele? Isn't bearing false witness against the ninth commandment?

Someone who wants to operate a business has to do that within the law in his jurisdiction. Oregon law does not permit discrimination on the grounds of race, gender, creed or orientation. If the baker is not prepared to follow all of the law, not just the bits he personally approves of, then he is likely to find himself in legal trouble. Despite what you assert, he does not have the legal right to discriminate based on his religious beliefs unless he is a religious organisation.

Despite your falsehoods above, the baker wasn't taken to court, if he was fined I cannot find evidence of it on the web, he chose to move his business from his store to his home, and his livelihood wasn't taken from him except by customers who exercised their right as consumers not to buy cakes from him any longer.

As a matter of fact, they are still in business as a search of their name (sweet cakes by Melissa) will attest. As the same baker has no problem with producing and selling divorce cakes, stem cell research cakes, pagan and Muslim holiday cakes and Wiccan marriage rite celebration cakes, his understanding of his God's commandments was already very poor.

Janadele, none of us can prevent your hatred and bigotry from damaging you. But we can urge you to see past your hatred, to understand that if your God is a kind, just and loving God who cares for all of His creation, as I am assured by several pro-Mormon sites, then He would abhor the kind of bigotry and hatred for your fellow human beings that you display here on this thread.
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Gosh.
It's clear Janadele has relied on sources clearly influenced by one "who delights in confusion and in clouding the minds of those who allow him so to do. "
Please do yourself the favour to avoid that source of information, Janadele.
It's authored by a hateful individual, as has been shown in Agatha's post.
 
Agatha said:
Someone who wants to operate a business has to do that within the law in his jurisdiction. Oregon law does not permit discrimination on the grounds of race, gender, creed or orientation. If the baker is not prepared to follow all of the law, not just the bits he personally approves of, then he is likely to find himself in legal trouble.
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And spiritual trouble too, if he or she is Mormon.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.12?lang=eng

Articles of Faith #12:
"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."
 
elbe said:
Is that how "gaoled" turned into "fined"? It's good you can acknowledge your own shortcomings. It's a step in the right direction, but you still need to provide evidence for even that.
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I guess that's called "moving the gaolposts".:D A story from Oregon about a wedding cake drama. It's a case of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face actually, not a story about the government's closing their business. No twisting of words needed:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/02/sweet-cakes-by-melissa-closed-_n_3856184.html

"This will be our last weekend at the shop we are moving our business to an in home bakery," an Aug. 30 entry on Sweet Cakes' Facebook page reads. "I will post our new number soon. Email will stay the same melissa@sweetcakesweb.com."
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The shop's closing came on the heels of news that the lesbian couple that Klein rejected had filed a complaint with the state, alleging that Sweet Cakes by Melissa discriminated against them based on their sexual orientation, according to Oregon Live.

In response to the complaint, the bakery's co-owner Melissa Klein argued that turning away the couple was "definitely not discrimination at all."
"We don't have anything against lesbians or homosexuals," she said in August. "It has to do with our morals and beliefs. It's so frustrating because we went through all of this in January, when it all came out."
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This deserves two: :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Shalamar said:
Why would god not want these two men to marry, when after they did so, they ended up adopting 14 children? Was this lucifers work? Looks like a pair of standup men, who started a family, and gave many children a loving home.

Do you condemn this? Does your god condemn this?
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Janadele said:
YES.
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So you and your God would rather see those 14 children stuck in the foster care system, at risk of abuse and neglect compounding that which they had already suffered in their birth families, despite there being a loving, safe home for them?

Are you really, honestly trying to tell us that you believe an abused, beaten and neglected child like Michael (the first child adopted by that gay couple) would have been better off staying in a group home, separated from his siblings, unable to cope with his anxiety for his siblings' welfare? He and his siblings are now together and are growing up in a safe, loving family environment.

Only a person blinded by bigotry, unable to see past her hatred for the human beings she condemns for something over which they have no control, would be so cruel as to want to condemn those children to lives of misery and pain.

I am so sorry for you, and for those who think like you. Jesus said "love thy neighbour as thyself", but you only have hatred in your heart for your neighbours. In your theology, you'll have to account to your God for that, but you have a chance to change now, and to open your heart to love, compassion and caring. I hope you will.
 
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elbe said:
...God is weaker than homosexuals. I never would have thought so, but Janadele has convinced me.
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I was thinking of turning LDS but since Janadele has shown me where the power lies I'll have to become gay.
 
tsig said:
I was thinking of turning LDS but since Janadele has shown me where the power lies I'll have to become gay.
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Heck, it seems pretty clear that homosexuals are also more loving than god.
 
Janadele said:
The denseness and inability to comprehend English demonstrated by some posters in this thread, continues to amaze me. Simple sentences are misconstrued, their meanings twisted, distorted and misinterpreted, by the otherwise seemingly intelligent. This could only be from the influence of Lucifer, who delights in confusion and in clouding the minds of those who allow him so to do.
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there is nothing of substance in the above statement.

Janadele said:
The following facts are simple and should be easy for all to comprehend... a baker is requested to bake a rainbow cake and to decorate it to depict a same sex couple supposedly entering into a "marriage", the baker rightly believes that by doing so he would be demonstrating approval and support for a "celebration" which he considers to be grossly immoral and against the commandment of his God.
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This same baker had no problem with:
1.) Making a cake for a divorce
2.) making a cake for a pagan ritual for witches.
3.) Making a cake for a child out of wedlock.
4.) Making a cake for a successful cloning of stem cells

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-20698-the_cake_wars.html

This brings to light that the opposition against gay marriage had little to do with religious morality, but rather simple bigotry.


Janadele said:
This should be his choice to make, instead he is summoned to court, fined, his business closed and his livelihood taken from him. This is how the followers of Lucifer try to force their evil immoral standards upon others in the name of "discrimination".
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That is not the way this happened.
They closed shop because they stopped selling cakes, because people in the area didn't want to give money to a bigot. They were not forced to close.

It is true that they were also in violation against the states anti-discrimination laws, but that wasn't why they were closed.
 
Janadele, consider the following thought very very very carefully.

Which type of writing/statement is more likely to come from a deceiver (AKA Lucifer)?

A Writing that contradicts all known facts and evidence.
or
Something that is in direct supported by all known facts and evidence?

Using this argument, can you not see that if there was something from Lucifer, wouldn't it be the book of Abraham? A document clearly fabricated and not at all a result of hieroglyphic translation.

As your writings contradict the facts of the case regarding the cake shop, isn't it possible that you are operating as the agent of Lucifer?
 
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