Shooter at DC Shipyard

What about military police?
They are the only ones allowed to carry, aside from security details on specific sites, but only their government-issued weapons. Kind of self-explanatory.

It was probably that idiot John Lott who started this blame-Clinton meme. He was on Hannity's show Friday spewing that nonsense. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Now anybody can stand up and tell the blithering idiot he has no clue. Hope he loses thousands of dollars a month in book sales and speaking fees.

I will also be glad to point out how stupid Hannity was to let him run off at the mouth like that when people complain about Hannity's getting down-graded. The boy has no bloody clue about military affairs, and yet the right wing eats up his garbage like it was pure truffles.
 
Last edited:
They are the only ones allowed to carry, aside from security details on specific sites, but only their government-issued weapons. Kind of self-explanatory.

It was probably that idiot John Lott who started this blame-Clinton meme. He was on Hannity's show Friday spewing that nonsense. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Now anybody can stand up and tell the blithering idiot he has no clue. Hope he loses thousands of dollars a month in book sales and speaking fees.

I will also be glad to point out how stupid Hannity was to let him run off at the mouth like that when people complain about Hannity's getting down-graded. The boy has no bloody clue about military affairs, and yet the right wing eats up his garbage like it was pure truffles.

I can see the Military Police deciding to enhance security on bases after this.

Though I have to wonder how the hell did someone known to the police for violent conduct get a security clearance?
 
I think that this incident does show one serious gap in our current gun laws. Any unlawful discharge of a firearm should bring and indelible record and a requirement to undergo psychiatric evaluation.
 
A couple things.

First, did he have a full security clearance or an interim clearance? The reason I ask is that, unless things have changed recently, there's a large backlog on background checks. They can easily take months to come through. It's fairly common for an interim clearance to be granted until the full check comes through, and an interim clearance can usually be granted by a security officer of a certain grade (I know the regimental-level G-2 can do it, not sure about smaller organizations S-2 officers). I suspect there's someone of the appropriate level at the location. Basically, unless there's reason to suspect something or there are active warrants out, there's not a lot of check on these interim clearances.

Second, just a comment to Nessie, are you against anyone ex-military owning a gun? Because everyone who is no longer in the military has been discharged. An honorable discharge is what you get after you serve out your contract time and leave, or if you retire, or whatever. Basically, if you get an honorable discharge, it's a paper stating that the government was happy with your service, and agrees you've fufilled your contractual duties. I suspect this is simply a misunderstanding on your part of what a discharge is...I don't really think you intended to slap every military veteran in the face there ;)

Finally, did any place mention what level of clearance he had? There are multiple possible investigations. For a Secret clearance, typically it's a national agency check and credit check. They basically check your name against national databases to see if you've had any crimes recorded, and run your credit to see if you have bad credit or high debt. I also believe this only goes back about 7 years. For higher clearances there's more involved, including visits and interviews with people who know you. Generally, you have to provide a character reference to cover the entire time frame of the check (in other words, you have to provide contact info for people who knew you through the entire seven years for a Secret, and longer for a Top Secret. I think TS goes back to 13 years, but can go back even further for particularly sensitive positions (not all top secret clearances are created equal); a friend of mine who worked intel had one of his high school teachers interviewed).

I also hope Sabrina shows up; this is her specialty area, so she knows more than I do. I worked computers (and medical, and combat engineering), so I had to obtain a clearance, which is where most of my knowledge comes from. The secret clearance level I know about, cause that's what I had. A bit fuzzier on the TS though.
 
Stop that right now. Clinton did not start that. In all my years of active duty, soldiers living in the barracks had to keep their weapons, private or government-issue, in the arms room. They could remove their private weapons to go hunting or to the sportsman's range, but had to sign them in and out.

Soldiers living in family housing had to have their weapons secured and unloaded and could take them out only to go hunting or to the range and had to keep them unloaded until they were at the range or the hunting area, and unload them before returning to quarters.

In both cases, the weapons had to be registered and the soldier's commander had to approve the registration. Those facing disciplinary action or being treated for any behavioral or mental disorder were not permitted to possess private weapons.

Soldiers living off-post, or retirees had to register their weapons to bring them on post for hunting or the range. The registration requirement, at least at Ft Lewis, was only recently dropped, but the weapons could only be transported directly to an authorized location, unloaded, and removed, unloaded, when the activity for which they brought the weapon was over.

Civilians, other than law-enforcement personnel, were not under any circumstances to carry loaded weapons or to carry concealed.

Somebody is peeing on our legs and telling us it is raining, and it had better cease.

You are NOT CORRECT. I am retired AF and have owned weapons for my entire career and lived in both Quarters on installations and in private housing in the community. I always kept weapons in my quarter no matter where I lived both on base and off. I retired in 1988.

The only registration I ever had to do was with the moving company when I relocated. Otherwise, no registration was required at all EVEN when I took a firearm to the on installation range. I did this numerous times throughout my career. This was on AF installations..

When I was on a remote tour to Korea on an Army installation I took a personal handgun. I had to keep that weapon in the installation arms room and sign it in and out... That was the only time in an over 20 year 'career I had to do so...

There have always been restrictions on actually carrying a weapon either loaded or unloaded on installations, but until the 90's no Registration was required other than that time in Korea on an Army installation...

Sometime prior to the 21st Century that changed. Now, all weapons must be Registered and unloaded in the transport mode like the general Federal Regulation that previously applied to National Parks etc when entering a military installation. Many State laws are the same where there is no reciprocal interstate weapons carry agreements.

The point I'm making is that the Registration requirements did change in the 90's. I don't know if Clinton was responsible or not, but it was some time during his reign that the Registration requirements did change when entering Military installations, at least AF ones. I can't speak about Army or Navy facilities as I had only the one experience in Korea where weapons are strictly controlled by the host Country...

I'm not at all sure that Lott was wrong and neither are you... If you think otherwise then I want to see your evidence for such as opposed to a rant defending your Messiah...
 
Last edited:
Wrong. And you've made this argument and have been refuted before with the Ft. Hood shooting.



This is a gun-free zone, thanks to the Clinton ban on military bases. Yes, there is armed security, just like there are cops outside of schools, but regular soldiers are not allowed to carry.

A gun free zone with armed guards that he had to get past to get into the base and more armed guards inside.

Your idea of gun free still has armed people in the vicinity, just like Columbine, Ft Hood and Virginia Tech.

Are you going to evidence lots of people having guns at work will make work safer?
 

While this Directive does address the carrying of loaded Firearms, I think you'll find that it is an update to an earlier directive regarding actual Carrying of Loaded firearms... As far as I know this has never been a practice on military installations except for Security or Law Enforcement personnel.

What I am more interested in and what is a key question is "possession" not the actual carrying of weapons... When did the more restrictive procedures begin in terms of registration and keeping in an arms room as was stated previously... I think there was a change in the 90's and this directive does not address the possession of private firearms at all...
 
.......

Second, just a comment to Nessie, are you against anyone ex-military owning a gun?

No :boggled:

Because everyone who is no longer in the military has been discharged. An honorable discharge is what you get after you serve out your contract time and leave, or if you retire, or whatever. Basically, if you get an honorable discharge, it's a paper stating that the government was happy with your service, and agrees you've fufilled your contractual duties. I suspect this is simply a misunderstanding on your part of what a discharge is...I don't really think you intended to slap every military veteran in the face there ;)

.........

I mentioned other reasons why I think it was mad Alexis was able to still be a lawful gun owner. The discharge on its own I would not have expected to be enough. Add it to the the other reasons, primarily the shooting incidents and then mental health issues and it becomes a picture of someone clearly not suitable to have a gun.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/shooting-reignites-gun-talk-bills-cold-20276090

"The gunman in the mass shootings at the Washington Navy Yard, Aaron Alexis, had a history of violent outbursts, was at least twice accused of firing guns in anger and was in the early stages of treatment for serious mental problems, according to court records and U.S. law enforcement officials."

That clearly does not apply to all ex-military people. The issue I have raised on numerous occasions is that just because someone is law abiding does not mean they are suitable to have a gun.
 
While this Directive does address the carrying of loaded Firearms, I think you'll find that it is an update to an earlier directive regarding actual Carrying of Loaded firearms... As far as I know this has never been a practice on military installations except for Security or Law Enforcement personnel.

Yes, contrary to shawmutt's assertion that "regular soldiers are not allowed to carry" weapons, "thanks to the Clinton ban on military bases", which is the thing I was specifically addressing.

The carry ban for soldiers on military bases, as you note, predates Clinton's presidency.
 
Yes, contrary to shawmutt's assertion that "regular soldiers are not allowed to carry" weapons, "thanks to the Clinton ban on military bases", which is the thing I was specifically addressing.

The carry ban for soldiers on military bases, as you note, predates Clinton's presidency.

I also believe it predates Bush # 1's Directive, as well... Well, except in Combat Zones or in Korea during training exercises in areas close to the DMZ... Those are exceptions to the general policy (there may be others), but I don't know when that originated...
 
Last edited:
I noticed yesterday that a local sporting goods store has a separate area for tactical gear. A counter selling AR-15s and similar firearms, "cold steel" knives, camo outfits, night vision gear.

Who buys this stuff?

Don't go out into the Great Outdoors much, do you?
Camo has become standard hunting and hiking gear (a couple of people I know whose hobby is wildlife photography wears camo gear for the same reason hunters do:less chance the animal will notice you and run away).
"Cold Steel" knives wear longer and are sharper then standard knives;most of your high quality kitchen knives are Cold Steel.
I own Night Vision Goggles and they are handy for general outdoor use;Ironically enough, very useful at night at SCA events.
 
Wrong. And you've made this argument and have been refuted before with the Ft. Hood shooting.



This is a gun-free zone, thanks to the Clinton ban on military bases. Yes, there is armed security, just like there are cops outside of schools, but regular soldiers are not allowed to carry.

Citation, please
 

Back
Top Bottom