Shooter at DC Shipyard

[Azrael 5]

I see news are now saying he'd been employed a week and wasnt an ex employee as first reported. One hell of a way to show you hate the job

 

[Checkmite]

What I want to know is how the hell with all the problems in his past he got a freaking security cleareance. Seems to me that Less Then Honorable Discharge would be a huge flag you do not want to trust this guy with high security stuff.

He did not get a less-than-honorable discharge. He was in fact granted an honorable discharge.

None of his three or four firearms-related run-ins with police resulted in a conviction, which meant his right to own weapons and carry them concealed was protected (and politically-defended; as in the case of a certain other newsworthy individual we will not name).

And the VA was not permitted by law to tell anyone, including his employer or the Navy, that he had sought help for symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah, you'd think background checks for security clearances would involve looking into whether or not the applicant is known to the police, especially considering that he has run into them on various occations.

Agreed 100% but for me that the guy got basically kicked out of the Navy would be enough for a huge red flag,regardless of other issues.

Hope Sabrina shows up since she is very knowlegable in this area.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Agreed 100% but for me that the guy got basically kicked out of the Navy would be enough for a huge red flag,regardless of other issues.

Hope Sabrina shows up since she is very knowlegable in this area.

Even then, AFAIK there is still an arrest record if it doesn't go to trial.

 

[LaurelHS]

What I want to know is how the hell with all the problems in his past he got a freaking security cleareance. Seems to me that Less Then Honorable Discharge would be a huge flag you do not want to trust this guy with high security stuff.

It's happened before. It was well-documented that Bruce Ivins had a serious mental disturbance, but the powers that be still let him work with anthrax.

 

[triforcharity]

I noticed yesterday that a local sporting goods store has a separate area for tactical gear. A counter selling AR-15s and similar firearms, "cold steel" knives, camo outfits, night vision gear.

Who buys this stuff?

Hunters, hikers, outdoorsman, fisherman...... BTW, I've bought one of everything you've listed, with the exception of NVG. I've got no use for them. But, if I had a pair....that'd be cool as hell! Not sure what I'd do with them....

 

[KatieG]

Hunters, hikers, outdoorsman, fisherman...... BTW, I've bought one of everything you've listed, with the exception of NVG. I've got no use for them. But, if I had a pair....that'd be cool as hell! Not sure what I'd do with them....

Spy on your neighbors? Could be interesting!

 

[triforcharity]

I'M ignorant? You're the one pretending I was referring to privately owned guns.`

Sorry, you're right, I assumed that's what you were referring to. Either way, it's still an opinion based on ignorance. Not your fault. Most people don't know that the vast majority of people on military installations in the US are in fact, not armed. Typically, only the MP's working the entrances, or very sensitive places, are armed.

The reason I assumed that you were speaking of privately owned firearms, is I've seen that comment a few times in reference to people who carry concealed firearms. My mistake.

Even the guy from the NRA didn't refer ONLY to privately owned guns.

Ok.......

It's a naval base. There are guns on it. And yet, this shooting still happened.

Yes, there are a few. Not many. Not even 40% of the people on ANY military base in the US are armed. I would guess that less than 5% of people on a military installation are armed. Again, mostly just the MP's at the entrances, and the military police that work regular patrols.

Thanks for proving you're ignorant on everything.

Thanks for attacking me personally.

Including what 'strawman' means.

You attacked a position that nobody holds. That's the textbook definition of "strawman". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[triforcharity]

Spy on your neighbors? Could be interesting!

My neighbors are old. Like, in their 80's old....

 

[Travis]

I dunno. I think that is a red flag right there. Discharging your firearm in a residential area (other than in defense of life & limb) should be taken seriously.

Why? I know people that discharge firearms in residential areas all the time. One of them has a CCP.

Three weeks ago someone shot and killed my cat right here in front of my house. Just another gunshot in town so no one reported it. Happens all the time.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Tell you this from outside the USA the fact that a massacre can occur carried out by a gun nut on a miltary base looks like the sympton of a systemic breakdown and lack of any real control over weapons.

That merely makes you willfully ignorant.

IIRC the round through the ceiling was the last straw for the Navy and I think he did not get a full honorable discharge.

Incorrect.

You don't shoot at someone's car unless you are angry, imo. And have control problems.

Or drunk. Or stupid. There's lot's of reasons to behave irresponsibly. He did apparently have some anger issues. Hell, if I'd been raised in Brooklyn or Queens, I might have them too. A few of the news articles provide hearsay evidence that he was very frustrated with the Navy, government, and the trouble getting assistance from the VA ... lately. The other story line is that the 9-11 attacks bugged the hell out of him. No idea what's true, and we won't know since he is now dead.

I see news are now saying he'd been employed a week and wasnt an ex employee as first reported. One hell of a way to show you hate the job

True, if tragic. He went Postal.

He was in fact granted an honorable discharge.

Sadly, he gave his shotgun a dishonorable discharge into a security guard at the Navy Yard, took that weapon, and another, and ran amok. Ain't nothing to do with gun control here. Out of control, more like.

And the VA was not permitted by law to tell anyone, including his employer or the Navy, that he had sought help for symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.

Standard patient confidentiality.

One of the guys he killed I went to school with. Wife, three kids, good guy, big heart. I don't get the idea that Aaron Alexis targeted anyone in particular, but was just shooting to shoot and kill.

Blind rage is one way to describe that.

Source? Motive? Reason?

There will be a lot of guessing, but none will actually know, since he takes that knowledge with him to the grave.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Tell you this from outside the USA the fact that a massacre can occur carried out by a gun nut on a miltary base looks like the sympton of a systemic breakdown and lack of any real control over weapons.

That merely makes you willfully ignorant.

IIRC the round through the ceiling was the last straw for the Navy and I think he did not get a full honorable discharge.

Incorrect.

You don't shoot at someone's car unless you are angry, imo. And have control problems.

Or drunk. Or stupid. There's lot's of reasons to behave irresponsibly. He did apparently have some anger issues. Hell, if I'd been raised in Brooklyn or Queens, I might have them too.

A few of the news articles provide hearsay evidence that he was very frustrated with the Navy, government, and the trouble getting assistance from the VA ... lately. The other story line is that the 9-11 attacks bugged the hell out of him. No idea what's true, and we won't know since he is now dead. His family must be having a horrible time of it, and I wish the media would give them some space. Likewise the families of the 12 folks no longer among the quick.

I see news are now saying he'd been employed a week and wasnt an ex employee as first reported. One hell of a way to show you hate the job

True, if tragic. He went Postal.

He was in fact granted an honorable discharge.

Sadly, he gave his shotgun a dishonorable discharge into a security guard at the Navy Yard, took that weapon, and another, and ran amok. Ain't nothing to do with gun control here. Out of control, more like.

And the VA was not permitted by law to tell anyone, including his employer or the Navy, that he had sought help for symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.

Standard patient confidentiality.

One of the guys he killed I went to school with. Wife, three kids, good guy, big heart. Huge Bruce Springsteen fan. Haven't seen him in years. Guess I won't see him again.
*sigh*
One more guy I know who'll be featured in the "where aren't they now" section of our alumni magazine. It's the part that begins "they shall not grow old, as we grow old ..." yes, it's the Binyon Poem.

I don't get the idea that Aaron Alexis targeted anyone in particular, but was just shooting to shoot and kill. Blind rage is one way to describe that. But if he sort of planned this all out, I get the idea that it was inner rage, cold calculation, and a desire to suicide by cop. Mission Accomplished, if true.

Source? Motive? Reason?

There will be a lot of guessing, but none will actually know, since he takes that knowledge with him to the grave.
What a *********** Monday that was.

 

[332nd]

Hunters, hikers, outdoorsman, fisherman...... BTW, I've bought one of everything you've listed, with the exception of NVG. I've got no use for them. But, if I had a pair....that'd be cool as hell! Not sure what I'd do with them....

On a clear night... just look up... trust me.

 

[332nd]

I noticed yesterday that a local sporting goods store has a separate area for tactical gear. A counter selling AR-15s and similar firearms, "cold steel" knives, camo outfits, night vision gear.

Who buys this stuff?

I brought a knife (browning though) from one. Its a good knife.

 

[Nessie]

He did not get a less-than-honorable discharge. He was in fact granted an honorable discharge.

None of his three or four firearms-related run-ins with police resulted in a conviction, which meant his right to own weapons and carry them concealed was protected (and politically-defended; as in the case of a certain other newsworthy individual we will not name).

And the VA was not permitted by law to tell anyone, including his employer or the Navy, that he had sought help for symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.

Discharged from the Navy (honourable or not), run ins with the police (convicted or not) and mental health issues such as he had, there is little chance Alexis would have been allowed to have guns in the UK. They would have been seized and if he wanted them back he would have had to go to court for a hearing in front of a sheriff. With that evidence against him, I would have been amazed if the Sheriff had let him get his gun back.

 

[Nessie]

Here a mass shooter went somewhere where he expected there to be guns. So much for the NRA's claim that mass shooters only go where they know people will be unarmed.

 

[shawmutt]

Here a mass shooter went somewhere where he expected there to be guns.

Wrong. And you've made this argument and have been refuted before with the Ft. Hood shooting.

So much for the NRA's claim that mass shooters only go where they know people will be unarmed.

This is a gun-free zone, thanks to the Clinton ban on military bases. Yes, there is armed security, just like there are cops outside of schools, but regular soldiers are not allowed to carry.

 

[LTC8K6]

Here a mass shooter went somewhere where he expected there to be guns. So much for the NRA's claim that mass shooters only go where they know people will be unarmed.

This mass shooter seems to have had a grudge though. He seems to have gone to a particular place for some reason in his mind.

He worked there, so he knew who was armed, and where they were, and how they handled people entering the area.

Besides, it's now well known that he was mentally ill, so he wasn't thinking normally, if at all.

If I thought I was going to be shooting up a place full of armed resisters, I would not attempt it with a Remington 870.

 

[leftysergeant]

This is a gun-free zone, thanks to the Clinton ban on military bases. Yes, there is armed security, just like there are cops outside of schools, but regular soldiers are not allowed to carry.

Stop that right now. Clinton did not start that. In all my years of active duty, soldiers living in the barracks had to keep their weapons, private or government-issue, in the arms room. They could remove their private weapons to go hunting or to the sportsman's range, but had to sign them in and out.

Soldiers living in family housing had to have their weapons secured and unloaded and could take them out only to go hunting or to the range and had to keep them unloaded until they were at the range or the hunting area, and unload them before returning to quarters.

In both cases, the weapons had to be registered and the soldier's commander had to approve the registration. Those facing disciplinary action or being treated for any behavioral or mental disorder were not permitted to possess private weapons.

Soldiers living off-post, or retirees had to register their weapons to bring them on post for hunting or the range. The registration requirement, at least at Ft Lewis, was only recently dropped, but the weapons could only be transported directly to an authorized location, unloaded, and removed, unloaded, when the activity for which they brought the weapon was over.

Civilians, other than law-enforcement personnel, were not under any circumstances to carry loaded weapons or to carry concealed.

Somebody is peeing on our legs and telling us it is raining, and it had better cease.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Stop that right now. Clinton did not start that. In all my years of active duty, soldiers living in the barracks had to keep their weapons, private or government-issue, in the arms room. They could remove their private weapons to go hunting or to the sportsman's range, but had to sign them in and out.

Soldiers living in family housing had to have their weapons secured and unloaded and could take them out only to go hunting or to the range and had to keep them unloaded until they were at the range or the hunting area, and unload them before returning to quarters.

In both cases, the weapons had to be registered and the soldier's commander had to approve the registration. Those facing disciplinary action or being treated for any behavioral or mental disorder were not permitted to possess private weapons.

Soldiers living off-post, or retirees had to register their weapons to bring them on post for hunting or the range. The registration requirement, at least at Ft Lewis, was only recently dropped, but the weapons could only be transported directly to an authorized location, unloaded, and removed, unloaded, when the activity for which they brought the weapon was over.

Civilians, other than law-enforcement personnel, were not under any circumstances to carry loaded weapons or to carry concealed.

Somebody is peeing on our legs and telling us it is raining, and it had better cease.

What about military police?