Otherkin?

[luchog]

I have no desire to be other than human, but I'd love a tail too.

I am also a bit of a transhumanist; and any chance to acquire abilities (or improvements) that I don't already possess is something I would jump at.

 

[Moronic_Laughter]

Beats me. I like to day dream but I don't believe what I day dream is real. The simple undeniable reality is that this process defies logic and truth. So long as you don't hurt anyone have at it. Watch that video I posted earlier by Tim minchin. It sums up my feelings nicely.

Yesterday I saw a real dragon while on a hike in the Santa Catalina's. it was a a foot long centipede.

I'm just trying to clarify why you think I'm engaged in an activity that somehow means I experience less of the world somehow (presumably because it is an activity that takes up significant amounts of time) than other people who are not otherkin. Honestly, explain this to me.

 

[Aridas]

Not surprised at all. Why you waste your own time is puzzling.

Waste? Somehow, I don't really see the waste for what very limited time is spent on anything related to it. Certainly, it's miniscule compared to the time that a lot of people spend drinking, which is to them, not a waste, somehow.

Dragons do not and never have existed. How anyone could think they are something that doesn't exist is beyond me. It defies all logic.

It hardly defies all logic, though, I suppose if you're assuming your conclusions, it's hard to get past that.

But as I said earlier so long as you aren't hurting someone else have at it.

Thank you for your approval.

You are missing out of many amazing things wasting your energy on dragons.

The same can really be said about anyone who does... anything. You're missing out on many amazing things by wasting your energy by reading and posting on this forum, for example.

I think my earlier point stands - unless you are actually human you can't possibly have the cognitive ability to think you are something other than human.

Can't possibly? My, you have a very limited view of what can occur in reality with your anthropocentric beliefs.

 

[Susitar]

Is it because the proposed mechanism is too mundane and not special and not unique and not paranormal enough?

Maybe the ones that identify with creatures that aren't in the human lineage are just mistaken.

No, it has nothing to do with "specialness". Frankly, I am a bit disappointed. You have obviously not read what I've written earlier. I have made no supernatural claims.

Seeing as there is no proof that therianthropy would be hereditary (so far, at least), and that most therians do not identify as beings similar to things in the human lineage - but more commonly carnivores, ungulates and birds - I would think a psychological explanation would be more likely. But then again, what is the point of making such advanced guesswork? I am a plant biologist, not a psychologist. I'll leave the research about the causes to non-human identities to someone else.

There is a research group starting to look into therianthropy. I don't think I can post links yet, but you'll find it if you google "therianthropy research group". At the moment, they are doing a project about therians and mental health.

Interestingly, I've known a considerably higher percentage of transgenders among the Furry/Therian/Otherkin communities; and I'm certain that there is a psychological relation between them. .

I have also noticed that there are certain groups that seem more common among the therian/otherkin communities than among "normal people". Transgender people, people with neurological or psychiatric diagnoses (such as autism, ADD) and sexual minorities. I'm not sure if this is because the community is internet-based and people are more open about these things online, or if therians are actually more likely to be neuroatypical and queer. And then, paganism is common. But paganism is more of a chosen thing than gender identity, I guess.

 

[Vermonter]

Hell, I spent three nights a week pretending to be someone completely different, whether it be a superhero who chucks fireballs, a giant robotic artificer, or an undead Scottish warrior (D&D on IRC for those who are wondering). Some of the folks I game with include a schoolteacher, a respected professor of psychology at a major university, and a law school student.

I spend countless hours writing fiction based on the settings we play in. Is this really so different? Sure, it's not my bag, but I can appreciate the sentiment behind it all. Some folks have passions for different things. If being a dragon or a wolf is what gives you meaning, have at it, and enjoy.

 

[marplots]

I sometimes spend hours pretending to be an employee who cares about his job.

 

[Aridas]

Hell, I spent three nights a week pretending to be someone completely different, whether it be a superhero who chucks fireballs, a giant robotic artificer, or an undead Scottish warrior (D&D on IRC for those who are wondering). Some of the folks I game with include a schoolteacher, a respected professor of psychology at a major university, and a law school student.

It would be OT here... but I'm a bit curious about the robotic artificer. The undead Scottish warrior sounds like a fun concept to play, too.

I spend countless hours writing fiction based on the settings we play in. Is this really so different?

A little, with the nature of what it is.

Sure, it's not my bag, but I can appreciate the sentiment behind it all. Some folks have passions for different things. If being a dragon or a wolf is what gives you meaning, have at it, and enjoy.

I'd say have at it, too, except that considering myself otherkin never really did give me meaning, much like me being gay, male, and having hair never gave me meaning. Spending time with friends, upholding the ideals I support, learning (admittedly, with a preference towards learning things about robotic artificers, for example), and generally enjoying myself give me meaning, on the other hand.

 

[Pup]

I'm curious: is therianthropy, or feeling like otherkin, pretty much a life-long undeniable thing or is it more like, for lack of a better word, a hobby?

In other words, there are passions that are deep but that we usually expect people to get involved with and then grow out of, like being Goth, loving a certain singer, identifying with a certain movie character till a new greater movie comes along, collecting body piercings or tattoos, etc.

There are other things that seem to be deeper and genetically/psychologically based and virtually impossible to change even if the person wants to, and remain even if the person tries to hide outward signs: wanting a sex change, being gay, being autistic, having BIID.

The way people describe therianthropy or otherkinness, it seems to be in terms like the second category above, but does that seem to be the case in practice? Do people feel as if they're a wolf pretty much from cradle to grave, or do they look back at age 50 and wonder: why did I ever think that when I was 20?

 

[Vermonter]

It would be OT here... but I'm a bit curious about the robotic artificer. The undead Scottish warrior sounds like a fun concept to play, too.

Sure, I'll send you a PM with the details!

I'd say have at it, too, except that considering myself otherkin never really did give me meaning, much like me being gay, male, and having hair never gave me meaning. Spending time with friends, upholding the ideals I support, learning (admittedly, with a preference towards learning things about robotic artificers, for example), and generally enjoying myself give me meaning, on the other hand.

That's a fair point, actually. Better than mine, really. So what would you consider "being otherkin" to be defined as? Part of your life? Something you do?

 

[Aridas]

I'm curious: is therianthropy, or feeling like otherkin, pretty much a life-long undeniable thing or is it more like, for lack of a better word, a hobby?

It's closer to... being part of one's identity, I'd say. Generally, it doesn't really change much, though how much attention one pays to it can certainly change.

The way people describe therianthropy or otherkinness, it seems to be in terms like the second category above, but does that seem to be the case in practice? Do people feel as if they're a wolf pretty much from cradle to grave, or do they look back at age 50 and wonder: why did I ever think that when I was 20?

I'd actually put it between the two categories, myself. At a fairly basic level, it serves as an easy descriptor to explain attributes that a person already has and has demonstrated, and once they've identified with the descriptor, the person may feel like embracing more attributes associated with whichever creature that they may not have otherwise. Giving a generalized answer to your options is a bit difficult, though, given the sources of information. Certainly, there are those who I recall could tell about how they had been identifying as something for likely over 80 years by that point, and none who no longer considered themselves otherkin, but had decades before, but that may well just be because they weren't interested in associating with those communities anymore. Certainly, I'm not all that interested in the communities, myself, at this point in my life.

 

[Aridas]

That's a fair point, actually. Better than mine, really. So what would you consider "being otherkin" to be defined as? Part of your life? Something you do?

For me, an unfalsifiable trait, really, that served as an easy explanation for a number of the ways that I perceived myself to be different from others. Its unfalsifiability and lack of invoking any imperatives has kept me from using it as a basis for any serious positions that I hold, though, and thus has largely been relegated to a fairly irrelevant position in my life.

Being otherkin, in general, is a broad description of a diverse set of beliefs that only really have that one is connected deeply in some way, greater or smaller, to at least one nonhuman creature in common. By greater and smaller, it does range from everything from people actually claiming something akin to thinking that they should have been born as the other being or that they were the being in a previous life or incarnation to lesser claims like that a particular animal is serving as, say, a spirit guide, but that they are and feel completely human, with people like Susitar, who identify strongly with the being in question, being somewhere in between.

 

[Delvo]

I wonder if cultures that have personal animal spirit guides and use animal costumes in religious ceremonies could have gotten that way by having once had some people like this before and decided to treat it not as an odd personality quirk but as a real connection to part of the world around them...

Do people feel as if they're a wolf pretty much from cradle to grave, or do they look back at age 50 and wonder: why did I ever think that when I was 20?

The latter seems to be pretty much the automatic presumption in the case of that guy who changed his name to Stalking Cat. He was found dead at home at age 54. No cause of death was ever officially announced, but suicide is suspected. I don't even know what the basis is for that suspicion, but it would be a predictable result of not wanting to do the Stalking Cat thing anymore and not seeing any way to back out of it. With milder manifestations, you can sell or throw away the fur suit(s), quit buying the colorful fairy makeup & glitter, or take down the dragon artwork. You can even relocate, cut off from people who knew you before, and not tell any of your new gang about your old lifestyle. But undoing a quarter of a million dollars of facial tattoos and plastic surgery accumulated over the years, and hiding from people who've seen your previous TV appearances, isn't much of an option.

 

[luchog]

I'm curious: is therianthropy, or feeling like otherkin, pretty much a life-long undeniable thing or is it more like, for lack of a better word, a hobby?

In other words, there are passions that are deep but that we usually expect people to get involved with and then grow out of, like being Goth, loving a certain singer, identifying with a certain movie character till a new greater movie comes along, collecting body piercings or tattoos, etc.

I don't see it as necessarily something to "grow out of". Like anything, there will be those "poseurs" who are into t because it happens to interest them at the moment, or because it happens to be fashionable with a certain crowd; but who will eventually lose interest and move on to other things. There will also be those who find that a particular interest is very important to them, that it is an expression of an essential part of themselves. Yes, there are plenty of Goths who "grow out of it" (usually referred to as "spookykids"), but there are just as many for whom it is an essential part of their self-expression (and I, personally, know plenty of Goths well into their '50s who are still just as much Goth as they were when they were in high school, though older, wiser, and less obnoxious about it).

Same with Therian/Otherkin/Furry/etc. Some are into it because it suits them at the time, or because it freaks someone else out, or because someone they like is into it. Others truly identify with it, and it expresses a part of their nature better than anything else they've found, for good or for bad.

There are other things that seem to be deeper and genetically/psychologically based and virtually impossible to change even if the person wants to, and remain even if the person tries to hide outward signs: wanting a sex change, being gay, being autistic, having BIID.

This isn't really a valid analogy, though, since these things tend to have a fairly clear genetic or neurological foundation; whereas no such foundation has been determined for Therian/Otherkin.

I wonder if cultures that have personal animal spirit guides and use animal costumes in religious ceremonies could have gotten that way by having once had some people like this before and decided to treat it not as an odd personality quirk but as a real connection to part of the world around them...

They're very likely different expressions of the same or similar phenomenon. A fascination with/fear of Nature and The Other, and the more primitive aspects of our own natures.

The latter seems to be pretty much the automatic presumption in the case of that guy who changed his name to Stalking Cat. He was found dead at home at age 54. No cause of death was ever officially announced, but suicide is suspected. I don't even know what the basis is for that suspicion, but it would be a predictable result of not wanting to do the Stalking Cat thing anymore and not seeing any way to back out of it.

The consensus does seem to be that it was suicide. It's been a while since I kept up with this stuff, but I seem to recall that he had some significant health issues completely aside from his transformation. He was also transgendered, and TG/TS people are are much higher risk of suicide. I'd say it wasn't so much that he couldn't back out of his lifestyle that triggered the suicide; but that the internal discomfort and pressure that led him to his lifestyle simply became overwhelming. It's hardly unusual for trans people.

 

[Pup]

This isn't really a valid analogy, though, since these things tend to have a fairly clear genetic or neurological foundation; whereas no such foundation has been determined for Therian/Otherkin.

Forty years ago, one could have said the same thing for being gay or transsexual. So I'm not sure that not having identified a genetic/neurological foundation is the same as none existing. If it's something that some people do see as an inescapable part of their lifelong identity, I'd actually expect that there would be some undiscovered fundamental foundation.

I'd say it wasn't so much that he couldn't back out of his lifestyle that triggered the suicide; but that the internal discomfort and pressure that led him to his lifestyle simply became overwhelming. It's hardly unusual for trans people.

I wondered that. Adding to the problem is that transgendered people who identify fully with the opposite physical sex can have a sex change and disappear into society as a person whose physical and mental appearance pretty much match. But a human can never become close enough to a wolf or tiger or eagle to pass for one; they'd always be on the fringes of both human and animal society.

 

[Checkmite]

Reading this discussion, it occurs to me based on the information herein that the "indigo child" meme can likely be considered a type of otherkin, at least in some forms. In fact, having begun in the 1970's or so, it might even be a functional precursor or founding meme.

 

[Susitar]

I'm curious: is therianthropy, or feeling like otherkin, pretty much a life-long undeniable thing or is it more like, for lack of a better word, a hobby?


The way people describe therianthropy or otherkinness, it seems to be in terms like the second category above, but does that seem to be the case in practice? Do people feel as if they're a wolf pretty much from cradle to grave, or do they look back at age 50 and wonder: why did I ever think that when I was 20?

I think that for most therians, it is more something you are, not anything you can do one day and decide to stop doing another day. So, more like being left-handed or shy or gay than being a dancer or gamer, in that sense. At least for me, I really feel I am a wolf somehow, and even if I can imagine that perhaps I one day would find out that my behaviours match some other animal (coyote, dog...) better, I don't think I will ever feel completely human. But my feelings about this matter fluctuate. Some months I will feel unusually human and normal, when I was younger I thought that perhaps that whole wolf-thing was a phase and it passed. Then it comes back, and at it's strongest I am unhappy with being human and start to research the possibility of fur and tail implants...

While there have been people first stating they are therian or otherkin and later leaving the community, many of them have had pretty good reasons for thinking they were therian. They might have been very bonded with a pet, or the animalistic spirituality was better described as totemism, etc. There are also many who still consider themselves being therian or otherkin, but have tired of the community and therefore leave.
But I do know of middle-aged therians, some of which have been involved in the community for a long time. There will also always be people who identify as animals, but haven't heard of the therian community, perhaps because they think they are insane, alone and that there is no point in trying to look for others like them. For example, my boyfriend "is" a cheetah, but he didn't know of the community until he met me and still isn't interested in joining. He is happy with just being able to purr or chirp when he is with me, he has no interest in discussing this with strangers.

There's also some confused teenagers coming to the communities, thinking it is something similar to role play... You can recognise them by their over-the-top usernames ("ShadowIceWolf", "Claw of the night") and their questions about how to physically transform... They leave when they found out we aren't cool werewolves and tigermen fighting vampires under the full moon. In the therian community, we jokingly call them fluffies or "tr00 weres", the otherkin community has "elven princess syndrome", where a person claims to have been an important creature in a past life (often royalty) and demand special privileges and extra-ordinary respect. "Elven princesses" are scorned as rude or just role playing.

 

[LSSBB]

No offense meant in posting this regarding the subject, I hope it brings a laugh, in a politically incorrect way...

 

[marplots]

Somebody then rang describing him(?)self as a Furry Otherkin. He went on to say that he sexually identified with foxes. The host said "yeah, okay, not a funny joke", but the guy insisted that he was an Otherkin and spoke about his distress at not being taken seriously. Somebody rang in to say he knew people like that and how they go into the forest, wear tails and try to behave like foxes.

Made me think of this:

 

[Mitchell314]

Not surprised at all. Why you waste your own time is puzzling. Dragons do not and never have existed. How anyone could think they are something that doesn't exist is beyond me. It defies all logic. But as I said earlier so long as you aren't hurting someone else have at it. You are missing out of many amazing things wasting your energy on dragons.

I think my earlier point stands - unless you are actually human you can't possibly have the cognitive ability to think you are something other than human.

Why waste time on anything? It is dangerous to take on such a viewpoint that something is wrong because it feels alien. Personally, I'm a casual/light fur (no leashes, no suits, I just like tasteful anthro art and the friendly community) and I can't fathom the thought process of otherkins or therians. But I don't feel they're wrong or a waste of time; if it's safe and floats their boat, then by all means go ahead. A lot of what we do can be seen as a waste of time by somebody. Like posting on internet forums.


Though I do have to admit, I've seen more otherkins in this thread alone than in actual furry circles. Kinda blew my mind there.

 

[lionking]

Though I do have to admit, I've seen more otherkins in this thread alone than in actual furry circles. Kinda blew my mind there.

You can say that again! I started this thread thinking I'd get a couple of WTF responses and see it die after 5 or so posts. It's been a real eye opener to me, and I've learnt a lot about sub-cultures I never knew existed. Putting the "E" in JREF.