Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kaosium]

I may have misread a comment in catching up, but somewhere in the last few pages someone mentioned how Peg Ganong was accused by someone (at Michael/Ergon's?) of being part of the Amanda Knox PR team? If I read that correctly, what's the story behind it?

 

[Bill Williams]

I may have misread a comment in catching up, but somewhere in the last few pages someone mentioned how Peg Ganong was accused by someone (at Michael/Ergon's?) of being part of the Amanda Knox PR team? If I read that correctly, what's the story behind it?

Michael (of what's now .NET) tried to shut out Peggy Ganong from the, then, single PMF website in March 2011. Someone quickly shut the whole thing down and a week later .ORG and .NET were born. Behind the scene (we later found out) both blamed the other for disgracing the Kerchers.

In about Feb 2012 the lid finally came off as to why the split 11 month's previous. Michael at .NET said he was the "founder" of .PMF, and to defend herself Peggy banned people on her site who supported Michael, made a couple of posts about it, but has been relative silent since.

Of course, all this silliness is because each believes they are the sole keepers of Meredith's memory and the other one is a fraud and a liar.

One of the posters, Tronic, accused Peggy of being on the payroll of Gogerty-Marriott, with a post on .NET. Peggy has never responded....

It all reads like a soap opera.

Someone named "guermantes" tried to shift the talk away from conspiracy....

guermantes wrote:
Hello (again) everybody,

I know I'll be declared 'insane' or 'unbalanced' on the other board, but, honestly, I don't care. Since I was the one who had started this whole debate (in part), I thought I would add this.

Ttrroonniicc, to be fair, I don't think/believe the other site is marketed or that SB is being paid or is an 'agent' of Marriott. What I think is: her motives for following this case are more mundane. Simply put, she has found a perfect media (Internet) that allows her to broadcast her opinions to the world straight from her living room. I don't believe for a moment in her 'selflessness' and 'disinterestedness'. She is here to demonstrate her 'vast' knowledge and be admired.

Have you noticed that there's always a little 'bon mot', a quip, a nice turn of phrase in her posts, as if she were saying/asking: look how good my writing is, don't you admire it? I don't believe for a second that she is here for Meredith. Skeptical is actually enjoying the whole experience. (In that I agree with Retired Pilot, sorry.) I might be wrong, of course. I'm a 'depth psychologist', an analytical psychologist, so I'm trying to look at a person's character 'in depth' and judge it by what he/she writes in his/her posts, and certain patterns emerge over time.

In the middle of all this quarrel between Michael and Peggy, Michael actually jumped to her defence:

Since the split I haven't followed Peggy or her activities at all, neither have I had any contact with her and as such, have little idea what is going on with her from one day to the next. However, to be fair, I have seen or heard no evidence or rumour (other then allegations posted by a single member here, which I didn't quite understand), that Peggy is in any way working for or with David Marriott, or is under the pay of anyone. This certainly wasn't the case when she was my co-Admin and it is inconcievable to me that she is now. Besides, Peggy would never tolerate having any boss, she has to be the one in charge.

 

[RandyN]

Of course I know Grinder. But Toto testimony is still being considered. I probably wouldn't have brought Toto up if Briars hadn't written that he was offended by people mocking the homeless junkie.

My point was that Toto is a tragic character. His personal weakness left him homeless and at the mercy of how the police and others treated him.

I doubt that Toto was stupid, just at the mercy of his addiction.

I have wondered about this. How can the court use Toto? He is dead. One court found him creditable and another smarter more educated court found him to be a loon.

Toto may be tragic...but he is also a drug dealing, using, liar who certainly could not have seen what he claims to have seen according to his court testimony. Unless perhaps everyone in court that day also took heroin and that evened out the testimony and made it logical and conclusive. Otherwise, a prosecutor should be taken to jail for presenting charlatans like this as witnesses in a case where the evidence is absent and real witnesses are ghosts and cctv has nothing to provide the case...but where time dysfunctional peeing old ladies can hear screams and running footsteps...three separate sets and yet who admits to not looking outside or at a clock and yet she is still "alive and well" as far as this case is concerned...(insert rant about useless defense here)

John Kercher is a man willing to go against logic and facts in order to prosecute and jail clearly innocent persons...all while remaining silent about the real killer Rudy Guede. Why would he act like that? Does grief allow someone to remain blind and ignorant about the facts surrounding his daughters murder? Does the fact that RG is dirt poor but that AK and RS families have recoverable assets have anything to do with his behavior the last 6 years? I dont know...but it sure doesn't look good. Not dignified at all...rather more like a fantasy tabloid rag writer tipping over stones looking for money. Oh wait that's Marasca...oh wait who hired Maresca?

 

[RandyN]

Religion might play a role in the fashioning of laws. For instance, one can probably draw a fairly short line between "Thou shalt not kill," to laws in countries which apply penalties to killings which are seen as homicides.

But the place where religion has NO role is in the administration of those laws. Courts do no deem people good or evil, they deem whether or not someone did what they were alleged to have done. And the presumption is that someone else has to prove that they did it, not that they are good or evil. When the accuser leads with religion, they probably have no case in law.

When religion is mixed in with the administration of law, that's when history has proven what a disaster that is. That's where we get dictates like testing to see if a woman is a witch by throwing her in the water to see if she floats.

Ergon has the right to believe what he believes, and if I've participated in mocking his beliefs here I apologize. Yet he shows why, using astrology, Amanda and Raffaele were ripe to be killers. And as Bruce says, his webpage says that he causes natural disasters to keep the world in line. To me, that speaks to his ability to discern justice in cases like this.

Is this totally unconnected to his brags that he gets personal emails from Dr. Mignini, that a PMF English-version of the ISC motivations is coming out, and that .NET has made a coup of sorts by releasing transcripts of 6 year old 112 calls?

Not to mention that Ergon says he plans a slow release of material from a stolen thumb-drive. What kind of God steals thumb drives? All this speaks to someone's ability to discern things.

What has always baffled me about Briars' reaction to these posts is the comment that we're "twisting things" when we merely say what he says about himself. I truly find that part mystifying.

Hummm...dont have time to spend on any cases lately...but didnt Frank claim to have computer data stolen by Bettina? Or was it pics or thumb drives? Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes (not the member here but the fictional one) to put this Ergon (GOD) secret supplier of stolen thumb drives up to the light and see what he writes.

I agree that God should not be stealing thumb drives but it appears that the actual question is should God release data from a known stolen thumb drive even if one of his angels is the one who done the actual thievery? I suppose God should know what is the right thing to do so......

And the wooooo just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

(Note to self...dig out hip boots.)

 

[Kaosium]

Michael (of what's now .NET) tried to shut out Peggy Ganong from the, then, single PMF website in March 2011. Someone quickly shut the whole thing down and a week later .ORG and .NET were born. Behind the scene (we later found out) both blamed the other for disgracing the Kerchers.

In about Feb 2012 the lid finally came off as to why the split 11 month's previous. Michael at .NET said he was the "founder" of .PMF, and to defend herself Peggy banned people on her site who supported Michael, made a couple of posts about it, but has been relative silent since.

Of course, all this silliness is because each believes they are the sole keepers of Meredith's memory and the other one is a fraud and a liar.

One of the posters, Tronic, accused Peggy of being on the payroll of Gogerty-Marriott, with a post on .NET. Peggy has never responded....

It all reads like a soap opera.

Someone named "guermantes" tried to shift the talk away from conspiracy....



In the middle of all this quarrel between Michael and Peggy, Michael actually jumped to her defence:

Thank you for the summary, Bill!

OK, then, that was just Tronnic? He's...a...member...here, thus I will mute my comment on the 'value' of his 'analysis.'

So Ergon is in contact with Mignini, huh?

Hrm.

One thing I've always wondered about: just who are TJMK's 'Italian lawyers' who've been 'advising' them on the status of the case?

 

[stilicho]

I have no problem taking SuperNaught to task and I have multiple times.

However, I'm curious Briars, if the Kerchers aren't interested in money, why do they have an Italian attorney?

For the same reason you would if your daughter had been murdered in Italy and the case against her killers had still not been finalised.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thank you for the summary, Bill!

OK, then, that was just Tronnic? He's...a...member...here, thus I will mute my comment on the 'value' of his 'analysis.'

So Ergon is in contact with Mignini, huh?

Hrm.

One thing I've always wondered about: just who are TJMK's 'Italian lawyers' who've been 'advising' them on the status of the case?

So far, all Ergon has is an e-mail signed G.Mignini about basic details on Frank Sfarzo's trial coming up in November. Erfon also claims to have had a meeting with Mignini when he went to Italy to see the ISC ruling firsthand for himself. It is unclear whether they just bumped into each other in the hall of the Questura or if Ergon was invited to the offce.

On one of Ergon's pages he lists Andrea Vogt as a friend. If Andrea Vogt was the "go between", that would explain how Mignini and Ergon communicated.... IF Vogt was involved that is.

My view of TJMK's "lawyers" is similar. Peter Q. could simply be sending e-mails to Italy asking for information, and it wouldn't be terribly conspiratorial for an answer resembling a press release to be returned, explaining the prosecutors' position. So it may be making too much of it to say about Ergon, too, that, "Ergon is in contact with Mignini." It could just be something like a press release.

BTW - Peter Q. took Peggy's side in the March 2011 split of PMF into two, where Michael continues to claim that he is the founder. Peter Q. said some unkind things about Ergon in Feb 2012 for going to the dark side.

One of the things Mignini's e-mail clears up, ironically, is if F.Sfarzo is a journalist or not. Mignini seems to think Sfarzo is, as does the Committee to Protect Journalists.

It is disturbing that I know this stuff.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>One thing I've always wondered about: just who are TJMK's 'Italian lawyers' who've been 'advising' them on the status of the case?

Like Stanley Kowalski, Peter Quennell has....er....a "lawyer acquaintance." Or a few dozen.

 

[JREF2010]

so Im sure its a thrill for ergon and andrea to feel important and connected to the big showoff ego called Migninni.... Miginini probably enjoys the bootlickers, the starstruck fans like andrea, the more bootlickers the better, especially if they'll post stuff online in favor of Migninni. Propaganda machines can be very helpful in false conviction cases.

 

[Bill Williams]

For the same reason you would if your daughter had been murdered in Italy and the case against her killers had still not been finalised.

I was going to say the same thing. It's one thing to note the stuff Maresca has done, it's quite another to suggest that the victim's family should go unrepresented in the Italian system.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>Italy and representative Mignini have caused two innocent people incalculable pain and suffering. They have also needlessly caused financial disaster for the two and for their families. And last but certainly not least Italy and Mignini have caused the Kerchers additional years of torture on top of the disastrous pain they already suffered when Rudy Guede robbed, raped and murdered their daughter.<snip>

Nice nutshell, Randy.

Well I hope Franks lawyer cross-examines Napoleoni about her recent corruptions involving tampering with evidence and how that characterizes her and her conspirator in this case...one DOKTOR Mignini...birds of a feather....

Good idea.

<snip>Toto may be tragic...but he is also a drug dealing, using, liar who certainly could not have seen what he claims to have seen according to his court testimony. Unless perhaps everyone in court that day also took heroin and that evened out the testimony and made it logical and conclusive.

John Kercher is a man willing to go against logic and facts in order to prosecute and jail clearly innocent persons...all while remaining silent about the real killer Rudy Guede. Why would he act like that? Does grief allow someone to remain blind and ignorant about the facts surrounding his daughters murder? Does the fact that RG is dirt poor but that AK and RS families have recoverable assets have anything to do with his behavior the last 6 years? I dont know...but it sure doesn't look good. Not dignified at all...rather more like a fantasy tabloid rag writer tipping over stones looking for money. Oh wait that's Marasca...oh wait who hired Maresca?

As I understand it, Rudy's father is far from dirt poor. He also is a friend of the Perugian authorities.

If the Kerchers really want money, they should be shifting gears any time now, because these appeals are not going to get them any. As Nigel Scott wrote yesterday in a GroundReport article:

Phase four: Knox and Sollecito are pursued relentlessly for years until they run out of money. Meanwhile Guede is allowed out of prison on parole.

 

[Mary_H]

For the same reason you would if your daughter had been murdered in Italy and the case against her killers had still not been finalised.

Stilicho, do you know whether the Kerchers have been able to collect any compensation from Rudy, as directed by Judge Micheli?

CONVICTION

GUEDE RUDI HERMANN

- To compensation for damage suffered by the civil parties formed Kercher John Leslie, Arlin Kercher MARY CAROL, Kercher John Ashley, Kercher LYLE that liquid on fairness to the extent of € 2,000,000.00 each for Kercher John Leslie and Arlin Kercher MARY CAROL and the extent of € 1,500,000.00 each for Kercher John Ashley and Kercher LYLE, and to pay related costs, that clears € 30,000.00 in total fees, in addition to overhead costs, VAT and accessories;

- To compensation for damage suffered by the civil party formed Kercher STEPHANIE LARA Arlin, that clears on fairness to the extent of € 1,500,000.00 and to pay related costs, that clears € 18,000.00 in fees, in addition to overhead costs, VAT and accessories;

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=286

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Stilicho, do you know whether the Kerchers have been able to collect any compensation from Rudy, as directed by Judge Micheli?

Mary_H

I vaguely recall Lyle Kercher stating something along the lines that the financial compensation awarded by the court was purely symbolic; the Kercher family are not motivated by money in my opinion.

Guede was routinely described as a drifter in the media prior to Meredith’s murder and has been in prison since November 2007, therefore, I find the question odd.

 

[js202]

Mary_H

I vaguely recall Lyle Kercher stating something along the lines that the financial compensation awarded by the court was purely symbolic; the Kercher family are not motivated by money in my opinion.

Guede was routinely described as a drifter in the media prior to Meredith’s murder and has been in prison since November 2007, therefore, I find the question odd.

At this late stage, most certainly they are not motivated by rationality or logic, it would seem. This is a great pity.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mary_H

I vaguely recall Lyle Kercher stating something along the lines that the financial compensation awarded by the court was purely symbolic; the Kercher family are not motivated by money in my opinion.

Guede was routinely described as a drifter in the media prior to Meredith’s murder and has been in prison since November 2007, therefore, I find the question odd.

Whereas I agree with you that I cannot imagine a scenario where the Kerchers are motivated by money - can the same be said for Mr. Maresca? - the last sentence of yours flies in the face of what guilters say somehow gets Guede off the hook as being a drifter. The family who supports him in Italy DO have money.

What's their liability?

 

[Mary_H]

Mary_H

I vaguely recall Lyle Kercher stating something along the lines that the financial compensation awarded by the court was purely symbolic; the Kercher family are not motivated by money in my opinion.

Guede was routinely described as a drifter in the media prior to Meredith’s murder and has been in prison since November 2007, therefore, I find the question odd.

Why do you find it odd? Judge Micheli instructed Rudy to compensate the Kerchers, just as Massei instructed Amanda and Raffaele to compensate the Kerchers. Rudy has parents, just as Amanda and Raffaele have parents. The parents aren't liable, but they are definitely contributing to their children's expenses.

I don't know whether the plaintiffs have a legal right to go after the families of convicted defendants. It's interesting, though, that so little is said about the finances of Rudy's adoptive family, whose pockets seem to be much deeper than those of the other defendants' families.

From: The Known Facts About Rudy Guede

Through his work on the basketball team Rudy became friends with the son of wealthy entrepreneur, Paolo Caporali, owner of the Liomatic Vending Company, a company that made and maintained vending machines primarily for coffee. Caporali was the wealthiest person in Perugia and Liomatic owned the basketball team, and the gym in which they played and practiced. Rudy became friends with the children, who, after becoming familiar with Rudy’s circumstances, petitioned their father to adopt Rudy until he turned 18. Rudy was 16 at this time.

 

[Mary_H]

Here is something else interesting from the same article:

[Rudy] developed a relationship with an American student, Victor Oleinikov, who happened to be from Seattle.....

Rudy never wanted to go home and was always happy to sleep on the floor of the apartment Victor shared with roommates. This only became a problem when Rudy started displaying very strange sleeping disorders. His eyes were normally droopy and during these attacks one couldn’t tell if he was awake or asleep. Rudy would rise in the middle of the night and, using a dresser as a black board, teach a lesson as though he was a professor, moving seamlessly between Italian and English. The students found this particularly unsettling. When he awoke in the morning he had no memory of the event. He told his friends that at home he had to hide his keys from himself because he tended to get up in this state and wander the streets, only to awaken miles from his home.

He also had periods of crawling on the floor and barking like a dog.

After his arrest, these behaviors were classified as psychogenic dissociative state or Fugue State, often associated with multiple personality disorder and nearly always the result of childhood sexual and physical abuse.

This would have been an ideal defense for Rudy. I wonder why his lawyer didn't use it.

 

[MichaelB]

Biscotti represented Rudy pro bono didn't he? It got him free publicity and in the media all the time.

 

[MichaelB]

For the same reason you would if your daughter had been murdered in Italy and the case against her killers had still not been finalised.

I couldn't help but notice you posted this on another forum where you use the name "Stilicho".

I'd like to hear commentary from you, Yummi, Popper, Jackie, and TomM regarding the sections on the statements, declarations, and testimony of Luciano Aviello. I think I can understand what they're talking about but I'd like to read a commentary from qualified individuals.

If you're confused, why not ask here?

 

[Diocletus]

For the same reason you would if your daughter had been murdered in Italy and the case against her killers had still not been finalised.

Hm. The reason why I would have such a lawyer would be to make sure that I have the best understanding of all relevant facts, and I think I would start by requesting to see suppressed egram numbers 600 to 604, 617, 622 (control), 626, 628, 631 (control), 685-86, 688-89, 693-94, 758-60, and 762-69. And that's just for the first three weeks of testing.

The reason that I would want to see this is because I know that people who hide evidence generally have a reason for doing so.