New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

[Jetblast]

Yeah, he should have been more critical of people who had no reason to lie making-up a shocking memory of being possessed by demons.
Yeah, he should have been more critical of people who had no reason to lie making-up a shocking memory of being raped by police.
Yeah, he should have been more critical of people who had no reason to lie making-up a shocking memory of being abducted by UFOs.
Yeah, he should have been more critical of people who had no reason to lie making-up a shocking memory of seeing bigfoot.


So - Yeah, he should have been more critical of people who had no reason to lie making-up a shocking memory of blast-shaking. As you've been told about 100 times, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

The blast shaking was impossible. It doesn't matter what people say about an impossible thing. People can say anything they want. Jesus.

Not working. You have Wire, Angelides, and his wife all saying the same thing unrehearsed and immediately after. I'm sure if we interviewed all three we would see your input to be the denialist chatter it is vs their sure memories.

 

[jhunter1163]

Now we're up to 23 naval vessels? Wouldn't that represent a significant fraction of the Navy's assets along the US East Coast?

ETA: In 1996 the Navy had 375 total active ships. So this would mean over 5% of the Navy's worldwide fleet strength involved in this one exercise. That's some exercise.

 

[beachnut]

You're just name-calling. The credentials of the ARAP and FIRO members are listed on their site. 1) They are top level vs yourself. 2) They have evidence you haven't been able to answer except this obviously silly stuff that fails to meet the standard of argument and evidence they present.

Their claim are BS, and I am a trained aircraft accident investigator, also served as board president. Some of the conspiracy experts claim to be trained also. Donaldson claims to be an aviation expert on accidents, then makes a video and proves he has no clue what flying is, and he was a pilot. Do you watch and comprehend all their work? They are BS artists, there claims are bogus, and I mean to concentrate on their claims, not call them names. However, they talk so much bull, it is hard to keep from labeling them with the products they produce. Donaldson takes a flame on a wooden stick and puts it out in jet fuel, a trick anyone can do, and proclaims jet fuel can't explode. ...
Then your expert web site states clearly without stating conditions

"..., because the fuel vapor is not explosive." http://twa800.com/pages/fuel.htm

Jet fuel can't explode, keep repeating the claim... Jet Fuel Can't Explode...

Oops, your experts are wrong.

Neither condition has been found to have been present in subsequent tests.

Your experts say the conditions for jet fuel fumes exploding were not present, but the studies of 800, show it the conditions were there. Darn, a big lie from your experts. They must be bad aircraft investigators, they can't do research. Do you know what Donaldson died from. Did you know one of your experts say he was killed? The CT world is full of woo. You should read the links I provided before supporting nonsense.

http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ar98-26.pdf
Studies which show jet fuel fumes are a hazard, and reasons why we don't all blow up all the time flying.

You have no real studies, your experts have not done significant work, and I don't see any experts on RADAR to figure out your MACH 4 nonsense. Could you point them out?

Why not list your experts and their credentials, and what their jobs related to 800 accident investigation were. One of your experts was in charge of inventory, an expert in listing stuff is one of your experts. Accident investigation is a big task, and not all the NTSB experts are experts on why 800 CWT blew up. Your inventory expert is not able to understand why the CWT is possible, and it shows. You don't know who he is? Thought you knew your experts skills - you gave a general source, when can you nail down the specifics and source their studies in detail?

 

[Jetblast]

So what does this mean? You think the missile entered the aircraft cabin before exploding?

How did it 'leak PETN'?

Do you think there is some kind of tank holding PETN?

WHat do you think happens to PETN when it gets hot?

WHat do you know about AA Missiles again?

I think you're bluffing and if we did a test of a US drone missile passing through a 747 we would find PETN residue sprayed on the seats in an identical pattern with a reddish purple stain.


The official explanation is nonsense. The surface temperature was 71 degrees that evening off Long Island. Subtract 3 degrees for every 1000 feet of altitude and the outside temperature was right around 32 degrees when Flight 800 reached 13,000 feet with a wind chill of nearly 400mph on the fuselage. There's no way you could spark a fuel tank explosion in those conditions with the scenario the official investigation described.

 

[Jetblast]

Yep, which of course puts the lie to the majority of claimed "eyewitness accounts" of a missile in flight Most of them claiming to have heard an explosion before turning to look at the plane and then seeing a missile, etc... E.G. the plane exploded and then almost a minute later they looked up at it - and saw a missile in flight?

Of course not that they let truth or reality get in their way.

Your side already got caught lying about the Zoom Climb and refused to release their data. They never came up with another explanation, which means they couldn't answer what the witnesses saw.

There were many witnesses who said they saw the flare-like object rise from the sea. FBI got caught lying about testimony when it fabricated a second interview with Mike Wire in order to overcome this obvious conflict.

Fred Meyer, a top credibility witness, saw the missile streak and impact with an ordnance flash. The investigation was caught altering his testimony to avoid this.

 

[JayUtah]

It doesn't matter what people say about an impossible thing. People can say anything they want. Jesus.

I saw what you did there.

 

[JayUtah]

You have Wire, Angelides, and his wife all saying the same thing unrehearsed and immediately after.

Asked and answered. "Feeling a shake" does not correspond to structures shaking, or resonance, or detonation wave fronts, or any of the nonsense you've propagated. Nor does it bode well for you that you can't seem to find a single first-hand source for their alleged observations.

The facts remain that the energies etc. that you're trying to extrapolate from these cherry-picked witnesses is physically impossible. So stomp and whine all you want about a couple witnesses and their supposedly immediate, unrehearsed testimony. None of that bolstering makes their testimony credible.

I'm sure if we interviewed all three we would see...

Begging the question.

...your input to be the denialist chatter it is

Pointless rhetoric.

...vs their sure memories.

Decades of forensic science assures us that there is no such thing.

 

[Jetblast]

Now we're up to 23 naval vessels? Wouldn't that represent a significant fraction of the Navy's assets along the US East Coast?

ETA: In 1996 the Navy had 375 total active ships. So this would mean over 5% of the Navy's worldwide fleet strength involved in this one exercise. That's some exercise.

Go to the You-Tube video I linked and listen to Emery describe listening to US Air Force General Partin describe designing the missiles that took down Flight 800. It's at 7:45.

Of course we'll be corrected by the JREF committee on how a US Air Force general was a nut and right-winger etc.


You-Tube: FBI Attempts Cover Up for TWA Flight 800

 

[Jetblast]

They have no evidence, they have BS, aka, nonsense. You have a fantasy, and you can't supply rational evidence past the standard woo support; "they said so". Faith based woo, the 3 missile theory. Did you read any of the woo yet? Do you know what you really have? No.


Which ones were trained aircraft accident investigator qualified in the task to make the conclusion the NTSB made? Not one. You failed to do more than say they were experts, but failed to present their resumes, as you make the claim; you failed to source your claim that the nuts are more than failed conspiracy theorists.

Where is the sonic boom for the missile? Did you review all the witnesses yet?

Did you give up on the AOA? How does the AOA show a missile blast? And please source it, with back up math and physics.

You gish gallop from one failed claim to the next.

You say MACH 4 stuff but don't explain why the MACH 4 left no sonic boom, a path of sound like thunder rumbling in the distance. Have you been attacked by missiles or Rockets going MACH 4?

Did I miss the AOA claim you failed to source? Where is that study?

Where is the RADAR study which support the MACH 4 stuff?

You got the same evidence Bigfoot believers have; talk.

You have a source that lies due to ignorance.
http://twa800.com/pages/fuel.htm
Oh, your expert web site says, "Why, because the fuel vapor is not explosive." No wonder my KC-135 can't blow up, it was a missile which killed fellow crew members, not fuel tanks essentially empty blowing up due to overheating hydraulic pumps with cumulative damage from crews which left them running dry... It was the silent, missiles from the fantasy minds of nuts, your "experts" fantasy minds.

Wait, jet fuel fumes can be explosive; but ignore science, you have to stick to woo to keep your 3 missile fantasy, and sell books full of nonsense. Follow the money, it is to sell books and make money from fools.


lol, where is the evidence? Did you check it before believing it? You can get the RADAR data if you ask from the evil government, and the military is the same, run by civilians, with a civilian in charge of all the military. You don't see to understand how easy it is to expose the government spreading lies. Watergate solved very fast, why can't you solve 800 with all the evidence. Is Stalcup hiding it? Where is it?

You have talk, where is the study? MACH 4? Where is the study? You can't source it. Saying Stalcup has the evidence is not sourcing the study, it is faith based nonsense.

Again, you produce no evidence, and quickly gish gallop to your nest BS, the unidirectional ejecta, not producing the study, not sourcing the claim.
You can't produce a simple diagram which will show 800 breaking up due to air-blast. You have no idea the loads on an aircraft in perfect shape, now a fuel tank overpressure due to a fuel vapor explosion, and the air rips 800 apart, air. Then the water impact does the rest of the damage.

You ignore the real problem, and believe "experts" you can't produce who, and why they are qualified.


One of your experts (CDR. William S. Donaldson, USN (ret.), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDAvsKeuL0U ) says a wing can't produce lift at 20 degrees up because they are not into the wind; never knew there was a wind like that... What wind? I use to do loops, not sure why a 747 can't pitch up with there is a Major CG change.

All the stuff I have seen on 800 videos and junk supporting a CT, is nonsense, based on each person's level of ignorance in the area they are making up what they think should be. Wow, what a mess.

You wrote a lot but you never really answered the unidirectional ejecta plume clearly caught on radar. It couldn't have been caused by the center tank exploding, according to your official cause of the crash. Now you are saying the NTSB investigators weren't qualified.

Government screwed-up because 3 KH-11 satellites were in position to observe the crash. They said all three "failed". What are the odds of all three failing at the same time? They screwed-up because they admitted elsewhere that one of the satellites captured the naval ships in the area (which means they were working).

 

[JayUtah]

Your side already...

Straw man, Gish gallop.

 

[dafydd]

Go to the You-Tube video I linked and listen to Emery describe listening to US Air Force General Partin describe designing the missiles that took down Flight 800. It's at 7:45.

Of course we'll be corrected by the JREF committee on how a US Air Force general was a nut and right-winger etc.


You-Tube: FBI Attempts Cover Up for TWA Flight 800

Proof by twoofer YooToob. Lol and lol again.

 

[dafydd]

You wrote a lot but you never really answered the unidirectional ejecta plume clearly caught on radar. It couldn't have been caused by the center tank exploding, according to your official cause of the crash. Now you are saying the NTSB investigators weren't qualified.

Government screwed-up because 3 KH-11 satellites were in position to observe the crash. They said all three "failed". What are the odds of all three failing at the same time? They screwed-up because they admitted elsewhere that one of the satellites captured the naval ships in the area (which means they were working).

Perhaps you would care to be the first truther to present your FULL theory of 911. I ask it of every one of that ilk who turns up here and have never received an answer.

 

[JayUtah]

You wrote a lot but you never really answered the unidirectional ejecta plume clearly caught on radar.

Nonsense. It's been answered a dozen times. You either don't understand the answer or simply don't like it. But repeatedly claiming it hasn't been addressed is insulting to your critics. As has been said, spamming the same challenge after it has been answered borders on violation of forum rules and may end up being reported.

It couldn't have been caused by the center tank exploding, according to your official cause of the crash.

No, according to your inexpert interpretation of some tests. Since we've established that you aren't a forensic engineer and that you won't answer questions about forensic engineering except to refer vaguely to other unqualified individuals, your judgment on this point is irrelevant.

You don't have the proper expertise to adjudicate the engineers' report. Even if you could, that is not logically connected to establishing some other affirmative claim to cause. Learn how investigation works.

Government screwed-up because 3 KH-11 satellites were in position to observe the crash. They said all three "failed".

Citation needed.

 

[JayUtah]

Of course we'll be corrected by the JREF committee on how a US Air Force general was a nut and right-winger etc.

Or maybe that third-hand testimony on YouTube isn't credible evidence.

 

[matt.tansy]

with a wind chill of nearly 400mph on the fuselage.

Bwahahahaha!

 

[JayUtah]

I think you're bluffing...

Pot, meet kettle.

You've assiduously avoided the experience and expertise of people who actually do this sort of thing for a living and studiously avoided their questions.

...and if we did <sometimg> we would find <something>

Please get used to the fact that all arguments of this form fall under the fallacy of begging the question. They have absolutely no probative value and are not persuasive.

The official explanation is nonsense.

In your expert professional opinion? I already asked you for your relevant academic and professional credentials, and you didn't answer. So obviously you have none. But why, in the face of that, do you keep trying to foist your layman's intuition off on people who have decades of experience in such matters?

The surface temperature was 71 degrees that evening off Long Island. Subtract 3 degrees for every 1000 feet of altitude and the outside temperature was right around 32 degrees when Flight 800 reached 13,000 feet...

So do the heat-transfer computations and tell me what the temperature was inside the fuel tank at that time? Oh, and were there any sources of heat near the fuel tank? What was the starting temperature of the surrounding structures before beginning the ascent?

(Hint: there's a reason we have to cold-soak airframes for two hours when doing flight test validations.)

...with a wind chill of nearly 400mph on the fuselage.

Um, no. What's the biggest airframe you've ever flown? As in, personally?

There's no way you could spark a fuel tank explosion in those conditions with the scenario the official investigation described.

Bwahahahaha! You really don't know much about airplanes, do you?

 

[Jetblast]

Bwahahahaha!

You need a better answer. There's science attached to this that would have condensed and cooled any alleged fuel vapors.

 

[thedopefishlives]

Still waiting to hear the Long Island Coroner's exact words or read his report, and to discover the identity of this all-important submarine captain who was relieved of duty.

 

[JayUtah]

You need a better answer.

No. He really doesn't. I don't think you realize just how ludicrous your claims sound to people who have actually worked on, built, or flown airplanes.

There's science attached to this that would have condensed and cooled any alleged fuel vapors.

You need a better answer. You started to make an argument based on the science of heat transfer, but you stopped just short of demonstrating any competence in the science that would support your claim. In short, you're handwaving. Show us the results of a heat transfer computation that supports the claim you're making; don't just assume one would.

 

[thedopefishlives]

You need a better answer. There's science attached to this that would have condensed and cooled any alleged fuel vapors.

Oh, goodie! Are you actually going to show us this purported science, or is it going to be like the rest of your "science" and be nothing but hot air?