What to do with people that murder pets?

[ponderingturtle]

That is kind of true, isn't it.

I love cats, but I don't think we should project human properties onto them. They are their own breed with their own rules, and we can't really say that whatever they do is moral or immoral.

We have a bird feeder in our front yard. Sometimes, in reference to the neighborhood cats (the ones allowed to roam, unlike ours) we call it the "bait station", and yes I have seen cats playing with their food. Life is cruel in the suburban jungle, but cats is cats.

With reference to the OP, I do hope they catch the offenders. Given that the cat was shot, if it was in the city limits, it was probably unlawful discharge of a firearm. Between that, the animal cruelty, perhaps a willful destruction of property, and whatever civil damages you can wring out of them, they will at least regret their actions.

So you need to lock those killer cats up for 20 years!


It's only fair

 

[theprestige]

And then it became hilarious.

Well, I certainly thought so. My parents were somewhat less amused by "cat poop sandcastle".

 

[Psi Baba]

Several things that almost every poster in this thread has overlooked. Firing a weapon in a residential neighborhood, and especially directly toward a house is a very serious offense in itself, regardless of whether it hit anything. Killing a pet could, at the very least, be considered destruction of property, and since in the U.S. we seem to put much more value and more severe penalties on crimes against property than crimes of violence, this would have to be considered a serious offense. (I'll remind everyone that Travis's cat was killed on his own property; it was not roaming as numerous posters have implied ad nauseam). Right there are two felonies even before we add animal cruelty to the mix.

Travis: I had to put my 14-yr-old cat down just this past Saturday. Knowing how that feels, I can't even begin to imagine your pain, so you have all my sympathy. I hope you find out who did it. There have been several incidents of pets being shot in my local area, and surprisingly the culprits are often caught. I'm always amazed that the perps can actually be caught, but they often are. I imagine that many times it's due to bragging. Make sure everyone in your area knows about it (get it in the media). Someone might just hear something.

 

[MiloMinderbinder]

Several things that almost every poster in this thread has overlooked. Firing a weapon in a residential neighborhood, and especially directly toward a house is a very serious offense in itself, regardless of whether it hit anything. Killing a pet could, at the very least, be considered destruction of property, and since in the U.S. we seem to put much more value and more severe penalties on crimes against property than crimes of violence, this would have to be considered a serious offense. (I'll remind everyone that Travis's cat was killed on his own property; it was not roaming as numerous posters have implied ad nauseam). Right there are

The popular sentiment seems to be that OP's cat was shot with a bullet by someone who had no legitimate reason to do it. That might well be the case, but it also might be a case where the cat was shot with a pellet gun (and likely not illegal to discharge one in most jurisdictions ), and that the cat was in the act of attacking another animal or pet on someone's property. If the latter happens to be the case, the OP might actually be liable for damages if the so-called culprit is found.

And, the OP has repeatedly said things like a cat in it's own front yard shouldn't be shot (which I agree with), but it doesn't appear that this is even the case with his cat. His original thread said the cat dragged itself into a neighbor's yard and that he originally thought it had been hit by a car. That doesn't sound like a cat napping in it's front yard while being shot.

 

[theprestige]

I love cats, but I don't think we should project human properties onto them. They are their own breed with their own rules, and we can't really say that whatever they do is moral or immoral.

Whenever I project human properties onto my cat (a strictly indoors animal), I am forced to conclude that she is a very horrible person.

She's actually kind of a difficult cat, too. She's a rescue, and apparently she was never fully socialized by her mother? Anyway, she doesn't speak very much, but instead resorts to biting if she wants your attention. Other cats want to be fed, they'll stand around and meow at you. Our cat will make a couple stuttering attempts at a meow, and then just lean in and bite you on the calf. She also purrs twice as loudly as normal cats. And she's completely uninterested in doing anything useful like killing spiders.

I do love her to pieces, though. I totally understand where Travis is coming from, though my revenge fantasies trend Yakuza: If someone shot my cat for fun, I'd want thumbs, at least.

But we already have a sympathy thread for all the irrational and emotional responses to Simon's death. I'm not sure we really need another. Since there doesn't seem to be much chance that the OP is interested in a rational debate on a social issue, the two should probably be merged.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm sorry for your loss. I endorse your idea's for dealing with the person that murdered your friend.


My son happens to be a cat. He is the most ornery and maladjusted feline you will ever meet and if someone were to hurt him I'd murder their *********** face off.


And yes to the implied question of the other commentators I consider hunting murder.

So you love the cute murderer. Awww.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's insane to suggest giving animals the same rights as humans because we don't ask them assume the same level of responsibility.

My Chihuahua is trying (yet again) to hump my cat as I type this. (Seriously hold on a sec while I go and separate them).

Anyway. Should I now charge him with rape? Bestiality? Child rape? I mean the cat is only two, which would still be a minor in human years. For that matter why don't they have to wear pants?

Should I be arrested because I've been holding the dog hostage for 5 and the cat hostage for 2 years in my house?

 

[blutoski]

It's insane to suggest giving animals the same rights as humans because we don't ask them assume the same level of responsibility.

There's a long history of philosophy that tries to navigate this very question. There is a traditional response to your statement: what about people with diminshed mental capacity? Obviously, there's more involved than the ability to take responsibility.

James Rachels in particular built up a strong argument for moral vegetarianism as a minimum.

My Chihuahua is trying (yet again) to hump my cat as I type this. (Seriously hold on a sec while I go and separate them).

Anyway. Should I now charge him with rape? Bestiality? Child rape? I mean the cat is only two, which would still be a minor in human years. For that matter why don't they have to wear pants?

Should I be arrested because I've been holding the dog hostage for 5 and the cat hostage for 2 years in my house?

Good questions. Replace the Chihuahua with a person with severe autism. We certainly wouldn't charge them with a crime. And we wouldn't have the right to euthanise them if they got annoying ([no matter what the neighbour's letter suggests]). But we can euthanise a perfectly healthy Chihuahua on a whim. The diffrence is based on their genetics, not their capacity for behaving 'responsibly'.

 

[JoeMorgue]

And you're right is an incredibly muddied philosophical and legal quagmire.

But that's sorta the point. Either a perfect line between them or a perfect equal sign between them... raises a lot of questions.

 

[sadhatter]

You know my question would be, what type of retribution , personal, not legal would folks tolerate? Killing pets is one of the situations in which i believe social justice in the form of personal retribution is more effective than the word of law. Most target pets as a way to severely emotionally damage someone while only opening themselves up to minimal legal repercussions. .

 

[blutoski]

And you're right is an incredibly muddied philosophical and legal quagmire.

But that's sorta the point. Either a perfect line between them or a perfect equal sign between them... raises a lot of questions.

We instinctively seem to believe that pets aren't just property, and maybe more than just animals as well. The challenge is to identify why and build policy around it that seems fair to reasonable people. I think we've made a lot of progress in the last, say, 100 years regarding animal welfare.

I'll give you another inconsistent example. Pet chickens. We mostly eat commerical chicken that comes from an animal that was crammed into a very small space since birth, the environment was unsanitary and terrifying. Generally speaking, the population is OK with battery farming; the factory owner and workers are not social pariahs. But if a regular joe kept a 'pet' chicken under the same conditions in their back yard, there would be calls to the city or the SPCA, and the neighbour might end up an outcast.

Another example... I think we are more angry about the killing of a pet cat than we would be of a feral cat. Clearly, part of that is that we share the pain of the human who grieves, but is that actually consistent if we want to build a punishment based on the animal's limited rights? I don't have an answer for that, and I admit I have dissected feral cats in university without feeling much anger toward the suppliers who typically get their specimens from shelters that euthanise unadopted animals. If I found out they were grabbing pets, I would feel downright sick about it. But I do not have this distinction about people - if I found out a child murder victim was an unadopted ward of the state, I would demand the same punishment as if the child had been adopted. I can't explain that very well.

 

[blutoski]

Also: @Travis, sorry I didn't start my participation in this thread by giving my condolences.

Have you decided what to do with the remains?

My vet has always cremated her pets and they're in flowerpots that she can take with her from place to place as she moves.

I've also always had my pets cremated; the plan is that when I die I will have their ashes mixed with mine so we can be scattered together. Note: I have recently reconsidered after my friend's house burned down and she lost her pets' ashes.

 

[angrysoba]

Yea because introduced species are never a problem in the continental us

Actually, they often are. Hey, I don't know why sarcasm is called the lowest form of wit.

 

[angrysoba]

It's insane to suggest giving animals the same rights as humans because we don't ask them assume the same level of responsibility.

I do. I've asked mine to help with paying the rent, to do the laundry and to cook on days when my wife and I are both working and, of course, look after the baby.

She's a real bum. She's never done the chores, and the number of times I have come home to a screaming kid with soiled nappies is beyond my ability to count. It wouldn't matter so much if she chipped in a bit for new ones.

 

[welshdean]

... Note: I have recently reconsidered after my friend's house burned down and she lost her pets' ashes.

'Lost'? I'd have thought she'd have had significantly more.

 

[Travis]

Couldn't agree more. Find them, kill them. They're not the type of people society needs anyway.

Absolutely.

My grandad kept a pellet gun handy inside the back porch, for the neighborhood cats that customarily **** in his yard.

My parents put a sandbox in the backyard. Great fun, until the day our neighbors introduced an "outside" cat to the neighborhood.

An unattended cat outdoors is a pest. One community member's extreme emotional attachment to it doesn't change that unpleasant fact. That some community members have adopted a policy of shooting such pests on sight is hardly a matter of extreme criminal prejudice. Though it may cause some grief for cat-lovers who are still struggling to reconcile their fondness for the animal with the animal's fondness for ******** all over the neighborhood.

If I shall meet the miscreant that harmed Simon he will find himself face to face with someone seething with rage.

 

[ThunderChunky]

I cannot see reason to shoot a cat. I guess is some areas they are considered vermin but those places must have huge feral cat problems. Worst case scenario, just trap it and send it to animal control. They will contact the owner.

 

[mikado]

I am so sorry for your loss Travis.
I don't know why someone would do such a terrible thing.
I am so sorry.

 

[MiloMinderbinder]

I cannot see reason to shoot a cat. I guess is some areas they are considered vermin but those places must have huge feral cat problems. Worst case scenario, just trap it and send it to animal control. They will contact the owner.

How easy is it to trap a cat? From what I can tell, all the traps are designed for catching feral cats by using food to attract them into the trap. If a cat is hanging around someone else's house and isn't hungry, I'm not sure if the trap would work.

 

[Manopolus]

I would be surprised to hear that it is not already illegal to kill pets, either your own or someone else's. Does anyone know what the current laws are in California (or elsewhere)?

In Nebraska, it's a felony cruelty to animals charge if the animal dies as a result (I know this only because I know someone charged with it). I assume elsewhere it's the same sort of thing -- Nebraska isn't exactly a particularly liberal state in "animal rights" issues. I don't know the exact penalty... but even a minor felony is a terrible thing to have on your criminal record (can't vote, hard to get a job, etc.); it affects you for the rest of your life regardless of what jail time you actually serve.