What to do with people that murder pets?

[newyorkguy]

Where I live, about three years ago a sixteen-year-old male was arrested for throwing his mother's cat out the living room window of their twelfth floor apartment. In New York there are animal cruelty laws and the local police, after some lobbying from local advocates, no longer hesitate to enforce them.

The youth claimed the cat had scratched him. His mother was distraught. It was very sad. The youth was arrested and convicted. I forget what his punishment was but I think he was put on probation.

At the time a lady at the local animal shelter wrote a letter to the local paper. She said that people should take animal cruelty seriously. That studies show that people who hurt, injure, torture or kill animals are very likely to do it to humans some day.

Last summer the teenager who threw his mother's cat out the window was arrested again. This time it was for murdering a lifelong friend following a violent argument.

He pleaded guilty and received a twenty-five year sentence.

 

[angrysoba]

Yea we have too many native species or bird left in Hawaii, but I am sure nobel cat owns will solve that.

Awww, that sounds a little bit like sarcasm.

I can understand that there may be good reasons for keeping cats indoors in areas where there are exotic fauna. But now you are talking about special cases. What impact would the scarcity of Hawaiian birds have on cat ownership in, say, California?

 

[Draca]

As some of you know over the weekend my beloved cat, Simon, was shot and killed by savages unknown. It is currently a matter of investigation by law enforcement.

My Grandmother's cat was shot right in front of her. She lived on a farm and was out weeding her garden. The garden was huge, the size of a field, and bordered a gravel road. A pet cat was keeping her company out in the garden when a truck drove by on the road. They stopped, pulled out their rifle and shot the cat. This was right in front of my Grandma and the cat was on its own property. She was distraught to see such ugly cruelty to her pet. A pointless, cruel death.

She didn't recognize the truck and the family believed it was someone literally out driving country roads TO shoot at cats. As meaningless to them as taking a bat to someone's mailbox.

You have every right to be angry, especially so if the cat was in its own yard. I'm very sorry for your loss and for coming in contact with human cruelty. I'm also sorry for your poor cat itself, it didn't deserve this and has been robbed of its precious life.

I agree that penalties for pet murder or cruelty should be much higher. Offenders should require counseling and being put on an animal cruelty watch list.

 

[Meadmaker]

For someone who reacts to strongly to killing for fun you have an odd view of cats.

That is kind of true, isn't it.

I love cats, but I don't think we should project human properties onto them. They are their own breed with their own rules, and we can't really say that whatever they do is moral or immoral.

We have a bird feeder in our front yard. Sometimes, in reference to the neighborhood cats (the ones allowed to roam, unlike ours) we call it the "bait station", and yes I have seen cats playing with their food. Life is cruel in the suburban jungle, but cats is cats.

With reference to the OP, I do hope they catch the offenders. Given that the cat was shot, if it was in the city limits, it was probably unlawful discharge of a firearm. Between that, the animal cruelty, perhaps a willful destruction of property, and whatever civil damages you can wring out of them, they will at least regret their actions.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Because cats are not humans. Saying we shouldn't do something to a cat because we wouldn't do it with a woman is ridiculous. We do all kinds of things with cats that we don't do with women. Like made medical decisions for them without their consent, or decide who they should be allowed to breed with (if we decide to allow them to breed), or, y'know, owning them.

This.

I have a dog and a cat, both indoors only. I adore them both. I do my best to keep them safe, healthy, and to provide the best lives I can give them. But I have to be rational.

I purchased my dog from another human being. I'm fairly certain the purchasing my wife from another human being would be frowned upon. I adopted our cat from our local ASPCA. Neither the dog nor cat had a say in who owns them. I have removed both of their reproductive capacities, I control their movement when outside the house, me and my wife are moving cross country in a few months and they had no say in the decision. I have them both microchipped. They don't pay taxes or get called for jury duty.

They are not human equivalent. And I certainly don't say that to devalue them or the happiness they bring into my lives.

Now that being said, am I amicable to Travis's suggestion (and for the record have nothing but sympathy and empathy for the loss of his companion) that penalties for animal cruelty should be higher? Absolutely. Animal cruelty being a felony is something I could possibly get behind, and some sort of not insignificant mandatory jail-time. I'd have to sit down and think about exactly what length of sentence I'd agree is appropriate, but I'm certainly up to considering it.

Be honest: did you start this thread to have a discussion about animal cruelty and what should be done about it, or because you wanted people to validate your rage?

*Taps the side of my nose.*

 

[Matt Black]

I'm sorry for your loss. I endorse your idea's for dealing with the person that murdered your friend.


My son happens to be a cat. He is the most ornery and maladjusted feline you will ever meet and if someone were to hurt him I'd murder their *********** face off.


And yes to the implied question of the other commentators I consider hunting murder.

 

[mijopaalmc]

I wasn't aware so many people were in favor of shooting cats in front of people's houses.

Look, I know your grieving for you cat, but that doesn't excuse from misrepresenting the argument.

I said that I was not in favor of killing humans who kill cats. Not even all forms of homicide, including first degree murder, are necessarily capital offenses, why should maliciously killing a non-human animal be?

 

[TheGoldcountry]

With reference to the OP, I do hope they catch the offenders. Given that the cat was shot, if it was in the city limits, it was probably unlawful discharge of a firearm. Between that, the animal cruelty, perhaps a willful destruction of property, and whatever civil damages you can wring out of them, they will at least regret their actions.

Travis lives relatively close to my area (we are both in Northern California) and I think it is rural where he is. In any case, where I live, I've met many who think killing is fun, and they are practiced at getting away with it. I never understood the attraction.

 

[Rolfe]

In my experience the first problem is finding the culprit, and the second is pinning the crime on them. Has Travis, or anyone, any clue about who might actually have done it? If they don't, the police probably don't either. Even if there was a record of someone or a group of people acting suspiciously with a gun or guns nearby, what do you do when they simply deny it? There isn't even a bullet to examine.

I'm also wondering who did the post mortem, just out of professional curiosity. And who paid for it.

Rolfe.

 

[Aepervius]

One friend, which is policeman in north of paris, told me once the police are often very interrested in people which kill other animals (compared to other "small" crime), especially young kids/teenager or if pain was involved, because sometime those are actually sociopath who sooner or later switch to two legged victims.

Not sure if he was exaggerating.

MY condolence to travis.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Aepervius,

I am reading one of John Douglas's books on crime (Law and Disorder), and I don't think that your friend was exaggerating. Escalation is not uncommon, if I understand correctly.

 

[newyorkguy]

One friend, which is policeman in north of paris, told me once the police are often very interrested in people which kill other animals (compared to other "small" crime), especially young kids/teenager or if pain was involved, because sometime those are actually sociopath who sooner or later switch to two legged victims.

Not sure if he was exaggerating.

He's not exaggerating.

Where I live, about three years ago a sixteen-year-old male was arrested for throwing his mother's cat out the living room window of their twelfth floor apartment.

...The youth was arrested and convicted. I forget what his punishment was but I think he was put on probation.

Last summer the teenager who threw his mother's cat out the window was arrested again. This time it was for murdering a lifelong friend following a violent argument.

 

[Akri]

Yeah, a psychological examination should definitely be done in these cases, IMO.

 

[MiloMinderbinder]

I made it very clear I am dissatisfied with their leniency.





I wasn't aware so many people were in favor of shooting cats in front of people's houses.

So that's the solution? Keep cats locked away inside houses for all time because if one is outside, even on the front lawn, it must be shot?

If that is the state of things I say humanity has lost its way.

He NEVER said anyone was in favor of shooting cats in front of people's houses. He said letting them roam around was irresponsible since there are many dangers to cats, and because they present a danger to other people's pets. That you would suggest he said otherwise is abjectly unfair.

I have a cat. It goes outside in the back sometimes. We have a large backyard that is fenced, so I'm not too concerned that a predator will ever get her in the back. She also doesn't usually spend long periods of time outside, but if she were to get left outside and ventured into the front, and if a coyote got her, I would feel partly to blame. Since those are a lot of IFs that aren't very likely to occur, I don't mind her going outside. But, still, as a pet owner, it's my responsibility to keep her safe and to ensure that she doesn't bother the neighbors or their pets.

Regarding the latter, we recently had a problem with a neighbor cat visiting our back patio in the very early morning hours and making a ruckus. Very annoying and a cause of sleep deprivation. We purchased and used some spray chemicals that seems to have done the trick (unless there is another reason the cat hasn't returned). If that hadn't worked, I'm not sure what I would have done. A trap would have been my next solution, but I'm not sure how to do that. If I couldn't trap it and if it had continued to terrorize our household at all hours of the night and cause us to keep losing sleep, I would likely consider shooting it. That's something I would hate to do.

 

[TjW]

You'd trap a cat in the street in front of somebody elses house?

No. But my uncle trapped cats on his property that were getting into the rabbit hutch. The first time, it went back to the owner. The second time, it went to animal control.

I have cats, I like cats, and I'm very sorry you lost yours.

 

[Mark6]

I'm with you and Travis on this. Animals are relatively defenseless so any violence toward them (without justification) is completely unacceptable. The penalties are not nearly strict enough.

Is "they taste good" an adequate justification?

(Yes, I know this does not apply to what OP described.)

 

[theprestige]

My grandad kept a pellet gun handy inside the back porch, for the neighborhood cats that customarily **** in his yard.

My parents put a sandbox in the backyard. Great fun, until the day our neighbors introduced an "outside" cat to the neighborhood.

An unattended cat outdoors is a pest. One community member's extreme emotional attachment to it doesn't change that unpleasant fact. That some community members have adopted a policy of shooting such pests on sight is hardly a matter of extreme criminal prejudice. Though it may cause some grief for cat-lovers who are still struggling to reconcile their fondness for the animal with the animal's fondness for ******** all over the neighborhood.

 

[angrysoba]

My parents put a sandbox in the backyard. Great fun, until the day our neighbors introduced an "outside" cat to the neighborhood.

And then it became hilarious.

 

[Rolfe]

In my experience the police will go after someone if they have evidence of animal abuse, and the courts will convict if the evidence is convincing. You may feel the penalties aren't harsh enough, but penalties are imposed.

The main problem with an incident such as Simon's murder is identifying the person or person responsible, and acquiring sufficient evidence to take a case to court, I'm afraid.

Rolfe.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Awww, that sounds a little bit like sarcasm.

I can understand that there may be good reasons for keeping cats indoors in areas where there are exotic fauna. But now you are talking about special cases. What impact would the scarcity of Hawaiian birds have on cat ownership in, say, California?

Yea because introduced species are never a problem in the continental us