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Burning Painted Steel Beams, Making Iron-Rich Microspheres!

Well, Kawika may be right that the second, loosely attached microsphere could originate e.g. from the steel barrel and could be then transferred to the beam surface by "winds of fire". Hypothetically.
From this point of view Dave's experiment is not sufficiently "clean", but it is a quite a good simulation of real WTC fire.


Africanus:
I agree, optical microscopy can find more easily more of such microspheres:cool:
 
Well, Kawika may be right that the second, loosely attached microsphere could originate e.g. from the steel barrel and could be then transferred to the beam surface by "winds of fire". Hypothetically.
From this point of view Dave's experiment is not sufficiently "clean", but it is a quite a good simulation of real WTC fire.

Since Harrit claims that ONLY thermite can produce these spheres, does it then really matter, if they are formed from the steel barrel or the piece being burned?
 
Since Harrit claims that ONLY thermite can produce these spheres, does it then really matter, if they are formed from the steel barrel or the piece being burned?

Agreed:cool: Dave simply found and documented these microspheres definitely not originating from any thermitic reaction, which was the basic goal. They are as good as any other found iron-rich microspheres, as proofs.
 
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Agreed:cool: Dave simply found and documented these microspheres definitely not originating from any thermitic reaction, which was the basic goal. They are as good as any other found iron-rich microspheres, as proofs.

I know that they will move the goalpost on this matter as well.

I have debated one of Harrits friends, who himself has no knowledge of chemistry at all. After I showed him that these spheres can form without any thermite being burned, he asked me for the equation for the conversion of lead chromate to elemental iron. This question comes directly from Harrit!

Apparently Harrit will only accept spheres being formed from the paint side of any chips and not the rust/steel it is attached to.

If I am not mistaken, Harrit has never showed that his spheres ONLY come from the red layer of his chips?!

And Harrit is clearly missing the point, that the forming of iron rich spheres from any source, disproves his idea that only thermite, can produce them.
 
I know that they will move the goalpost on this matter as well.

I have debated one of Harrits friends, who himself has no knowledge of chemistry at all. After I showed him that these spheres can form without any thermite being burned, he asked me for the equation for the conversion of lead chromate to elemental iron. This question comes directly from Harrit!

Apparently Harrit will only accept spheres being formed from the paint side of any chips and not the rust/steel it is attached to.

If I am not mistaken, Harrit has never showed that his spheres ONLY come from the red layer of his chips?!

And Harrit is clearly missing the point, that the forming of iron rich spheres from any source, disproves his idea that only thermite, can produce them.

You are correct, until today there is no evidence that the iron-rich microspheres in the Bentham paper originate from the red layer of Harrit's chips. Harrit et al. published not a single photo of a post-DSC chip that shows the adherring gray layer. The presence of a red/brown material after DSC is a good hint that the opposite is true.

But that is not the only omission in Harrit's paper. He also did not clarify if the Fe:O ratio he gave are atomic or mass ratios, although that would be a crucial information. His ratios (from 2:1 up to 4:1) are in good accordance with the mass ratios of iron oxides, which would be 3.5 for FeO, 2.6 for Fe3O4 and 2.3 for Fe2O3.
 
"Since Harrit claims that ONLY thermite can produce these spheres, does it then really matter, if they are formed from the steel barrel or the piece being burned?"

Dr. Harrit has never claimed that thermitic reactions were the sole method of melting steel.

He does not believe that an ordinary wood fire in a steel barrel is going to heat primer paint to the point that iron oxide will melt into iron-rich microspheres.

Dave's test is a mess just like is infamous steel wool hand waving.

Take an old steel barrel (likely heavily contaminated with welding-created iron-rich microspheres), dump in a pile of wood fuel, burn off the primer paint from steel, extract steel from debris sludge at the bottom of the barrel, scrap off residue and examine.

Two iron-rich microspheres are found and are immediately attributed to the burned primer paint.

The possibility of contamination being the source of Dave's discovery of a couple of microspheres is never acknowledged or considered.

Why only two?

Why not a myriad of various microspheres, spheroids etc?

How strange that in all the heat experiments previously reported on primer paints, iron-rich microspheres were not discovered.

Who knew it was so easy.

Dr. Harrit replied to me that Dave's test was rubbish and that when Dave publishes his work, Dr. Harrit will gladly respond.

MM
 
Dr. Harrit replied to me that Dave's test was rubbish and that when Dave publishes his work, Dr. Harrit will gladly respond.

MM

MM

Can you confirm that your above quote is a direct response from Dr Harrit and you are in some way working as his spokes person ?
 
Dr. Harrit has never claimed that thermitic reactions were the sole method of melting steel.

He does not believe that an ordinary wood fire in a steel barrel is going to heat primer paint to the point that iron oxide will melt into iron-rich microspheres.

Dave's test is a mess just like is infamous steel wool hand waving.

Take an old steel barrel (likely heavily contaminated with welding-created iron-rich microspheres), dump in a pile of wood fuel, burn off the primer paint from steel, extract steel from debris sludge at the bottom of the barrel, scrap off residue and examine.

Two iron-rich microspheres are found and are immediately attributed to the burned primer paint.

The possibility of contamination being the source of Dave's discovery of a couple of microspheres is never acknowledged or considered.

Why only two?

Why not a myriad of various microspheres, spheroids etc?

How strange that in all the heat experiments previously reported on primer paints, iron-rich microspheres were not discovered.

Who knew it was so easy.

Dr. Harrit replied to me that Dave's test was rubbish and that when Dave publishes his work, Dr. Harrit will gladly respond.

MM
LOL, take an old building (likely heavily contaminated with welding-created iron-rich microspheres), this can't get better.

Of course iron spheres are common in fires... experts, unlike Harrit who seems to be crazy comparing himself to Galileo, when Harrit spreads lies about 911, the fantasy of thermite.

Iron Microspheres in the Context of the World Trade Center Dust
Well, let’s start with the basics. The World Trade Center was a building with many iron‐based components. There were structural components such as beams and electrical conduit. There were building contents such as desks and file cabinets.

Now, the building is hit by two jet airplanes resulting in a fire fed by jet fuel. The electrical system is compromised resulting in high voltage, high amperage electrical arcing between the wires and the conduit. The fire is in a building with a central core of elevator shafts that act like a chimney efficiently providing the oxygen needed for combustion. The air and other gasses are flowing with hurricane force speeds. The fire is sufficiently hot to exceed the plastic strength of the structural steel and the building collapses.

What about the iron microspheres? The iron has a thin layer of rust flakes that can be easily removed by sticky tape. The iron is heated red hot or hotter and subjected to hurricane force blast furnace like wind. The iron flakes are liberated as small particles and some iron is vaporized. Like drops of water, the iron flakes form molten spheres that solidify and the fume also condenses into spheres, the most efficient geometrical form. Incidentally, iron is not the only material that formed spheres during the event. Some building material is made of minerals containing aluminum and silicon and alumino‐silicate spheres were also observed in the dust.

The formation of iron and other type spheres at temperatures obtainable by the combustion of petroleum or coal based fuels is not a new or unique process. These spheres are the same as iron and alumino‐silicate spheres in the well‐studied fly ash formed from contaminants in coal as it is burned in furnaces.
Rich Lee

BTW, all the things in the experiment were in the WTC. Steel, wood, paint, and more.

Next, the percent of iron, just iron in WTC is less than 2 percent, not 5 or 6 percent. Most the dust is from wallboard, insulation, and concrete, and other contents of the WTC. Plus the iron percent is not all iron spheres. 911 truth lies, and thermite is one of the dumbest claims.

The steel wool was valid, as is burning stuff. You have trusted men who have gone off the deep end into woo woo land. Where is Jones? Gage may be the only sane 911 truth pusher, as he makes a living, traveling and spreading the word for donations to his old age fund.

It does not matter where the iron sphere come from, they were found due to fire. How much steel was in the WTC? (likely heavily contaminated with welding-created iron-rich micro-spheres), lol

It is common for iron sphere to arise from fires, and then a simple demonstration is ignore by you, and the rest of those who refuse to think for themselves in 911 truth, followers in a faith based fail movement which has no single integrated plot, no single theory, and what will you do with 77 and 93? Delusions of thermite, 12 years and no action by 911 truth.

BTW, the product of thermite is iron, not iron oxide as seen the iron sphere Jones and Harriet have said were due to thermite. oops, the energy of the dust Jones and Harriet is not like thermite, it is like dust. Good luck with finding reality, as you and Harriet ignore reality and pick to remain in the fantasy world of thermite.

How many iron spheres has Jones found in WTC dust? The RJ Lee study is after clean up, and not all the iron he found was iron spheres.

Blind support for Jones and Harrit's thermite lie. Faith is cool, but not rational.

From the RJ Lee report on dust sampled after clean up...
particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event, but are not common in “normal” interior office dust
Fire, not themite.

All the BS you have about this demonstration, goes double for the Jones/Harrit fake paper event. With simple reading comprehension skills, it is evident Jones and Harrit did not find thermite in their study. Simple reading comprehension, don't need to be an engineer, or physicist, just a grade school graduate. Their is no proof the dust was from the WTC event... But there is proof iron spheres occur in fires, by RJ Lee, in studies, and in a simple demo now ignored by those fooled by liars on thermite, Jones/Harrit, and other "experts" in 911 truth.
 
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Somehow I doubt the veracity of mm's statement.

I have no reason to doubt the veracity. I do find it and MM's response to be validation of how humans will often do whatever they feel is necessary to avoid changing their minds. Truth is apparently not the goal here, dragging out the argument and staving off defeat is. What a sad waste of everyone's time, to cling to some shred that you think validates your belief and be in denial as experiment after experiment proves your wrong. Putting off response until the results are published is only one way of avoiding the facts. Simplistic denials by calling it rubbish with no details as to why is another avoidance tactic.
 
Dr. Harrit has never claimed that thermitic reactions were the sole method of melting steel.
...

Dr. Harrit replied to me that Dave's test was rubbish and that when Dave publishes his work, Dr. Harrit will gladly respond.

MM


Nice attempted dodge from the real issue, which is the formation of iron-rich microspheres without thermite.

Here's what Harrit says about that.

From http://stj911.org/blog/research-faqs/:

Sunday, December 19, 2010

Dr. Rancourt

Thank you for your interest in our publication, and the effort you have made to formulate the questions as they appear in

http://climateguy.blogspot.com/2010/11/peer-review-of-harrit-et-al-on-911-cant.html

Our answers follow below. Your questions are highlighted in green. (on this post here they are italics)

Yours sincerely

Niels Harrit
...

ALTERNATIVE HYPOTHESIS: Much is made of the fact that Fe-rich spheroids are present after reaction but there is no discussion of the grey-layer or of the origin of the Si-rich spheroids. Heating causes many things and there is an exothermic reaction so the conclusions about the presence of Fe-rich spheroids (which are reported to contain oxygen) as evidence for the thermite reaction is tenuous.

ANSWER: A scientific paper is a set of data and the best hypothesis rationalizing the observations. Fe-rich spheroids are observed after a thermite reaction. Fe-rich spheroids have never been observed unless there was a thermite reaction.

“Tenuous”?

You're welcome, MM!
 
I have no reason to doubt the veracity. I do find it and MM's response to be validation of how humans will often do whatever they feel is necessary to avoid changing their minds. Truth is apparently not the goal here, dragging out the argument and staving off defeat is. What a sad waste of everyone's time, to cling to some shred that you think validates your belief and be in denial as experiment after experiment proves your wrong. Putting off response until the results are published is only one way of avoiding the facts. Simplistic denials by calling it rubbish with no details as to why is another avoidance tactic.

His kind lie so much, it's the default position. Only after concrete proof has been shown can we take any of them at their word.
 
Take an old steel barrel (likely heavily contaminated with welding-created iron-rich microspheres)...

This is the funny bit (too funny?).

Precious little welding goes into the manufacture of a steel barrel (the lid and base are crimped on).

Then it's painted. Then it gets used for years. Then a barrel like this sits, full of holes, in all weathers, for years more.

"likely heavily contaminated with ..." Dear FSM :rolleyes:
 
Originally Posted by Josarhus
Since Harrit claims that ONLY thermite can produce these spheres, does it then really matter, if they are formed from the steel barrel or the piece being burned?


Agreed:cool: Dave simply found and documented these microspheres definitely not originating from any thermitic reaction, which was the basic goal. They are as good as any other found iron-rich microspheres, as proofs.

Iron-rich microspheres are a common product of fires. That's why R.J. Lee looked for them in the dust samples they examined for Deutsche Bank; to distinguish dust from the Twin Towers from ordinary background dust.

Hilarious that debunkers did an experiment in only a few days that truthers haven't done in over a decade. Once again, truthers have egg on their faces.
 
Take an old steel barrel (likely heavily contaminated with welding-created iron-rich microspheres)

MM

Lol.

Yeah that's not too bloody likely. The end users of those barrels ( motor oils, solvents, corn syrup, etc ) wouldn't use them if they were contaminated from the manufacturing process.

Do truthers ever recognize the silliness of their statements?
 
As I said under Dave's YouTube post:

Less than 10 seconds into this video, Niels Harrit is quoted as saying that iron-rich microspheres "are observed after a thermite reaction... spheroids have never been observed unless there was a thermite reaction." This little experiment proves him wrong. It seems extremely highly likely that the spheres came from the beam after burning, not before. Even if there were contamination from the barrel, there was no thermite contamination for crying out loud.
 

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