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The Markets, Trading & Charts Thread

Oil is up more than tenfold since 1998.

1375522456-clip-32kb.png


I also find it very interesting how many economists want to blame oil and the Arabs for the 70's - 80's inflation, but it's gone up 1030% since 1998

but.. er.. "it didn't happen this time" ? :rolleyes:
 
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Here's an idea on how to convince people your charts have predictive power without costing you a dime. Have a skeptic make a few charts for you covering some set of parameters you need. You wont know what dates are used or what is being traded (to prevent cheating). You have to look at the charts and then make specific tradable predictions and explain your logic. The rest of the chart is then revealed and we see how often you are right.

TBH, if these little technical tricks worked well enough to generate decent income, someone could write a bot to do it for them. That would be worth a lot of money. So where are the bots?
 
Here's an idea on how to convince people your charts have predictive power without costing you a dime. Have a skeptic make a few charts for you covering some set of parameters you need. You wont know what dates are used or what is being traded (to prevent cheating). You have to look at the charts and then make specific tradable predictions and explain your logic. The rest of the chart is then revealed and we see how often you are right.

I would play this game if people wanted to, but to perfectly honest, I'm really not bothered about convincing anybody who can't see anything here by now. it makes zero difference to me in any material way whether anybody believes me or not, it's between me and the market, the only "proof" is my results, everybody else's talk is cheap really, as with all due respect I would appear to understand a great deal more about this than most here, thus far anyway. I know plenty of traders who consider themselves skeptics, including me. where are all JREFs traders?

the "usual suspects" here can be as "skeptical" as they like, but if my account balance continues the steady 2% ish a week growth, then it's really argument over as far as I'm concerned.

It should also be noted that much can see seen when you are actually watching price action, that is never revealed in static charts afterwards. in particular close observation of the BID/ASK spread behaviour at or around likely turning points.

When I label those ovals "manipulation" and nobody challenges me on it, should I say I am ready for you, if you want to? :) because it might not be manipulation by intent, but it is certainly manipulation of the BID/ASK spread just prior to the "Shift Bar" and coincidentally just happens to be at the ultimate top reversal point where everybody gets caught wrongfooted, and half of them have doubled up their stake because they're getting confident now.

when I put an image up like this:

JSq5n.png


you have to be pretty confident to sit there watching them flicker the price towards your stoploss, spikey twitchy action designed to elicit powerful emotion in traders who have been watching it go down 3 days in a row now, threatening to break the floor once again at the very lows, it makes the herd want to short, right at the worst possible time they could.

do we think this is accidental? I don't. because I know where we are in the cycle, I know what I am looking for for a reversal, and I can actually see the manipulation of the BID/ASK spread live I am looking to take the exact opposite trade to the 90% losers at probably the exact same time.

this then faces me in the same direction as the winners (mostly) and sets up a straight bank transfer between their account and mine if Im right. if they open their stop and let it run into negative, that's a big mistake, account loss coming, as we've now got a whole 3 cycles backwards for them. lulz, I feel bad for them really, Ive been there in a small scale way.

TBH, if these little technical tricks worked well enough to generate decent income, someone could write a bot to do it for them. That would be worth a lot of money. So where are the bots?

I have thought a lot about this, (as you might imagine) but I don't think it would really be possible to simulate what I'm doing with a robot. maybe after 5 more years of doing it I would be able to define everything so tightly as to code it, but I doubt it.

because they aren't little technical tricks, and every single setup will be slightly different and subjective, if you aren't familiar with your position in cycle (and right) you can get chewed up trying to trade like this just like everybody else.

I really don't think you (or we the public) could code this, maybe the people who wrote the marketmaking software we have to trade with could though..
 
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I would play this game if people wanted to, but to perfectly honest, I'm really not bothered about convincing anybody who can't see anything here by now.

Since we're on the JREF forum...

...that sounds an awful lot like what people say for why they don't accept the Million Dollar Challenge.

I, too, considered the test proposed, including some charts with random data.

It would not be that hard to set up. Maybe do 100 screen shots of a variety of charts all truncated at random positions.

My guess is that you would not be able to do better than chance. I also doubt you could identify the charts with random data, but I'm less sure of that.

Or, you could look at a chart (the Dow, let's say, or Apple or oil or the Nikkei or whatever), and every day prior to opening predict the daily close - at least whether it will be up or down for the day.

Establish, in advance, the criteria for success.

Could be interesting.
 
the "usual suspects" here can be as "skeptical" as they like, but if my account balance continues the steady 2% ish a week growth, then it's really argument over as far as I'm concerned.

Exercise, for you or anyone who wants to try it.

Make a spreadsheet.

Into cell A1 put $10,000.

Into cell A2 put the formula "=A1*1.02". Should yield $10,200 after week 1.

Fill down the same formula into a whole bunch of cells in column A.

Question: how many iterations (weeks) does it take to get to a million dollars?

I'd do it myself, but I'm on the road on the way home from the EAA Oshkosh Fly-In, and doing the above is frustratingly hard on my iPad, which is all I brought along. With Excel on my laptop it would take about 2 minutes, so somebody help me out here!
 
Since we're on the JREF forum...

...that sounds an awful lot like what people say for why they don't accept the Million Dollar Challenge.

1, I didnt say I wouldnt play it, I said I would. howver it would really prove nothing about what I'm talking about.

it has taken me ages to learn a few specific markets individual characteristics, volatility, and I would not dream of attempting to live trade a market (now lol) without thorough demo testing, establishing the optimum stop levels etc (you have to trade and get stopped out often enough at different stop levels to get the likely ranges etc) this is very, extremely specific, so random unidentified charts will mean what they always do, nothing.

I, too, considered the test proposed, including some charts with random data.

It would not be that hard to set up. Maybe do 100 screen shots of a variety of charts all truncated at random positions.

once again, how about we set up the $million test, my criteria are that I can regularly pull a percentage out each week, over a period of time.

If i do, the million's mine? I'm up for that, bigtime. other wise this all sounds like a lot of work and hassle to convince non-understanders about irrelevant things to be honest. perhaps ou can undertstand, that if I am right here, I have way better things to be doing with my valuable time.

My guess is that you would not be able to do better than chance. I also doubt you could identify the charts with random data, but I'm less sure of that.

my guess is that on the terms of my proposal above, I would be a millionaire at the end of 8 or 12 weeks or whatever, funny thing, perspective, isnt it.

Or, you could look at a chart (the Dow, let's say, or Apple or oil or the Nikkei or whatever), and every day prior to opening predict the daily close - at least whether it will be up or down for the day.

have you not been looking at the trade screens? I have been talking you through live trades for past few weeks, which have produced as of close all last night +12.25% in 5 weeks, having previously taken a demo account from $100k ($85 actually, it was down to, I got it back up to $100 before I started testing proper) to $190k in 3 months, again, documented all the way through, here.

seriously, what else is it I have to prove again?

Establish, in advance, the criteria for success.

Could be interesting.

haven't I by now? and I note everybody is all still avoiding the actual key topic here. how many times have I said

"The manipulation is the key"

if we don't see it, you don't take the trade, whatever the level, whatever the cycle, whatever you "think", if you don't see the manipulation occur DO NOT TRADE.

but no, instead of asking about that, we are all obcessing over statistical irrelevances instead. I'd be interested to see how you set the parameters to test that. my thoughts would be:

I see it and take the trades. If I win more than I lose (51/49 technically would do, but I would be aiming at 60-70% at 2:1 risk reward) and If I pull off say an steady-ish average of 8-10% a month for 3 months I'm also presented with a $million from JREF as my new trading account?

sweet, count me in.
 
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Pretty much unreadable on my screen, I'm afraid. The charts are so wide and the text scrolls off-screen too.
 
Pretty much unreadable on my screen, I'm afraid. The charts are so wide and the text scrolls off-screen too.

sorry. I'll try and keep them smaller. its those doubles that do it mainly, but if if I make them smaller what i want to show isnt visible. I do try.

but if youre interested, I would say it might be worth finding access to a bigger screen ;)

in the meantime, with reference to my previous post, and the precise trade trigger, this is what is meant by BID ASK spread manipulation.

this is principle only, and not to scale in either axis.

1375539447-spread-fun-24kb.png


its actually very difficult to document well, on any of my platforms anyway because of the format it's shown in, you can only see a very small moving slice at any one time

1375539578-clip-39kb.png


But see it you can, if you are looking in the right places. and it will always occur before right before the shift bar and the start of the next direction change and push.

they will be holding the price at the highs, flicking flicking spikey stuff and muppets are pressing buy the world over right as the bottom falls out of it.

that's my parameters, if I can choose no other. once again, and hopefully for the last time now, its not strictly TA as you know it, is it?
 
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Exercise, for you or anyone who wants to try it.

Make a spreadsheet.

Into cell A1 put $10,000.

Into cell A2 put the formula "=A1*1.02". Should yield $10,200 after week 1.

Fill down the same formula into a whole bunch of cells in column A.

Question: how many iterations (weeks) does it take to get to a million dollars?

I'd do it myself, but I'm on the road on the way home from the EAA Oshkosh Fly-In, and doing the above is frustratingly hard on my iPad, which is all I brought along. With Excel on my laptop it would take about 2 minutes, so somebody help me out here!


No need to use a spreadsheet.

I = Log(1000000/10000) / Log 1.02

I is the number of iterations (weeks) required, which is this case is 232.55
 
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to perfectly honest, I'm really not bothered about convincing anybody who can't see anything here by now.
Three pages of pretty charts painstakingly annotated yet telling nobody (as far as I can tell) anything of a predictive nature indicates that really is not you being perfectly honest.

A decent attempt to hedge your bets given that I don't *think* you have convinced anyone though :-)
 
Three pages of pretty charts painstakingly annotated yet telling nobody (as far as I can tell) anything of a predictive nature indicates that really is not you being perfectly honest.

A decent attempt to hedge your bets given that I don't *think* you have convinced anyone though :-)

what are your honest thoughts Francesca? am I just being consistently lucky at the moment and will blow it all up later?

why is what is basically a CT producing profits? as an expert in the business I would genuinely value your opinion. its not my system and I have no skin in the game with them, Im just very very grateful to them.
 
I am not a technical trader and I have never used charts. A buy/sell signal on EURUSD (USDDEM first) and USDJPY using nothing more than crossing points of the 3 and 13 week moving averages should have made money (net of bid-offer and allowance for execution slippage)--just about--between 1980 and about 2004 but not since then. And it had more losing trades than winners over that period. I think it worked on US, DE and JP 5 year futures too but again not since the early noughties. I find it of minor academic interest.

Prof Richard Levich (who I have met) of NYU Stern School of Business has published more than anyone on this. Somewhat conspicuously--not for quite a few years though.
 
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ok but can I pick your brains on industry stats?

what would be the batting average per month for top fund traders? somebody told me a while back that Investment bank top traders are aiming at 5-15% per month? does that sound realistic?

oh, and do you (personally) know any long term consistently successful traders? ie proof positive it is possible, if you know what you're doing?
 
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Three pages of pretty charts painstakingly annotated yet telling nobody (as far as I can tell) anything of a predictive nature indicates that really is not you being perfectly honest.

A decent attempt to hedge your bets given that I don't *think* you have convinced anyone though :-)

oh, and sorry I didnt really answer this properly, did I?

the thing is, I have been writing various bits about it all over the place in disparate threads and never really fully explained anything, so I wanted to just get the whole story in one place with lots of examples and leave it out there for people to make their own minds up about probabilities for what I have documented.

I already have, and as I said, ultimately if I'm right I will be here gloating for a while yet at least until gold hits new all time highs again... :D

I have never claimed that I can pick patterns out of unknown randomness what I have said is that I think I can profitably trade (what I perceive and reason must be) manipulation in my specialist markets. and I have supplied ample (pretty) examples of.

this requires that I can view the right things at the right time, through the right lens (software etc) sometimes waiting hours or even days for the price to do what we're looking for, in the right place. and sometimes what you think never comes. so tomorrow's another day, bothered.

it of course also means hours in front of charts watching anyway, I have all the time in the world to write things on them and let them evolve. it helps to pass the time and amuse me really, is all.

and really, for this claim, what other proof is there required, apart from the balance sheet?

but people seem to be deliberately ignoring the one and only reason I think this is possible and continually saying

"well predict the Dow number in 2 weeks time then"

it's a bit lame really, is nobody really in the least curious about the cycles I've shown you, and my precision entries into them right at the very turn of the move? the last couple of Euro trades where I traded a couple of the cycles down, and caught the reversal up again to the pip? from a line that i'd drawn days before?

I will admit I am struggling with this, do you just not believe me, or what? do you think I'm faking it?

But I actually dont care if 99 out of 100 people don't see anything really, because there is the possibility, one day, that someone (else) with a curious and capable mind might stumble onto this thread and be helped.

the rest would never have a snowflakes chance in hell of cracking it anyway, preconceptions are a real drag if they are actually wrong, and so whether they believe me or not genuinely makes absolutely no odds.
 
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double tapped. sorry old habits n all that.
 
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these kind of predictions im more comfortable with, because this is aligned to what Im doing every day. every time I commit my money to the game, I am making a real prediction and at every TP level it has come true.

so I think I can do significantly better than chance here.

we don't need to know which way it's going to move, only where you are and how it moves once it starts.

lulz, and re the Euro 1.33000 prediction from the post earlier
[qimg]http://fxpro.ctrader.com/images/screens/bqH5n.png[/qimg]

Im actually not right until its a clear stop run and reverses though, at which point I will endeavour to make some money from it.

the 133000 trade, I was waiting for stoprun, I said so first, we got it, and I got in short at 133379 AT. THE. VERY. TOP. chance? :) lulz, go on then, try it yourself is all I can say really.

so how is this not a valid prediction? I would venture it is much more valid than most as not only did I predict it, I made money off it by doing so and documented it along the way? I've always said I trust the opinion much more of people who put their money where their mouths are, skin in the game and all that.

n3q5n.png


Rzq5n.png


and as everybody loves predictions, lets stick my neck out with some Nikkei movement predictions too. I drew these yesterday, and am not saying, and cannot say that each arrow will be perfect, however the principle is virtually always correct, and that is:

that if the price is going to break out back higher, it will first suddenly and violently penetrate the lower line, and that until you do see that any rally is likely to be short lived.

[qimg]http://clip2net.com/clip/m0/1375095039-clip-35kb.png[/qimg]

or, if the price is going to go lower, it will bounce and first look like it is going to break out higher, but then rapidly retrace leaving only pins, where once there were big blue spikes upwards and lots of Herd pressing "BUY" to try and jump on.

[qimg]http://clip2net.com/clip/m0/1375113688-clip-33kb.png[/qimg]

and that until we see the (disputed term formerly known as) manipulation, at either higher or lower levels, all we will see is price consolidating in that triangle for a while.

[qimg]http://clip2net.com/clip/m0/1375184419-clip-19kb.png[/qimg]

Option 2 at this point, it rallied a bit higher than I expected but retraced leaving only another pin through the upper trend line. I'll be shorting rallies on this until they stoprun the floor (wherever it ends up being) at which point I'll go long.

1375558094-clip-30kb.png


because Ive thought from all the way back here it was coming back down to 13500 ish before any breakout higher was possible, I was just early again, see post

so now we've been back down again, I'd be very surprised if the floor wasnt taken out prior to any big move upwards.
 
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am I just being consistently lucky at the moment and will blow it all up later?
It's always possible that you are just experiencing a hot streak.

The only way to tell for sure is if you subject all your buy/sell decisions to a statistical analysis.
 
lomillor,

Thanks for the equation. Math is not my strong point.


kevsta,

I honestly do not see the patterns you do. I see lines and triangles that seem to be nudged into "best fits", but with many other interpretations and placements equally plausible.

It is either enhanced insight and perception on your part that I'm not privileged to, or your seeing stuff that ain't there.

I'm still keeping an open mind.
 

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