Sally Morgan, A lesson to be learned

meecepeece said:
I think if someone accuses a psychic of fraud and lying it should be then up to them to prove that they are NOT ,not the other way arnd.where a clear&total liar is able to sue.This is one of the silliest most ignorant lawsuits I have ever seen.and I come from the land of ppl suing fastfood chains for making them obese,geez
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Innocent until proven guilty, meecepeece. Innocent until proven guilty.
 
TheFamousCash said:
If enough people with more than two firing synapses contacted their M.P. and demanded the issue be raised in parliament to prohibit these thieves from advertising or performing, surely matters would be brought to a head and we could declare, once and for all, ALL PSYCHICS ARE CON ARTIST or MENTALLY UNWELL. (Or both)

My M.P. totally agrees with me but did not raise the issue saying he felt the current law was sufficient! Any fool can say whatever they like about communicating with dead people as long as they do not say anything "bad". What kind of law is that? Protect the feeble-minded! Jail these charlatans!
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As a person who used to believe in Spiritualism and all kinds of other things that go bump in the night, I have some insight into how psychic fans think and feel. And I can say with some confidence that your approach would be counter-productive. Using the strong arm of the law to force psychics out of business would create a thousand Helen Duncans. Spiritualism would become an underground guerrilla force of martyrs with skeptics as the helmeted riot police waving their batons. The psychic-supporters would receive a lot of public support. Calls to clarify the difference between religious belief and consumer protection would be ignored; for Spiritualists they are one and the same. Conspiracy theories would bloom, the possibility that the Government is trying to suppress the "truth about the Afterlife!" The skeptics would be asked: "What have you got to hide, eh?" And we don't, do we?;)
 
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Porterboy said:
She says she called the police at one point. Either that's a lie too or she called them because she had evidence of real death threats.
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She claims the dead talk to her and you have to put a question mark? :D
 
TheFamousCash said:
It might bring things to a head and stop this con artist from making fortunes out of fools!
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You already acknowledged that self-proclaimed psychics can also just be mentally unwell, so what evidence do you have that she is actually a con-artist?
 
Azrael 5 said:
She claims the dead talk to her and you have to put a question mark? :D
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I don't see the connection. :confused: I'm talking about her testimony in a court case that won her £125,000 in damages, plus costs. Whether the dead really talk to her or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is that she made a complaint to the police and they took it seriously. It was part of her case which it could not have been if it wasn't true.

Why do you not believe she received death threats?
 
Porterboy said:
I don't see the connection. :confused: I'm talking about her testimony in a court case that won her £125,000 in damages, plus costs. Whether the dead really talk to her or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is that she made a complaint to the police and they took it seriously. It was part of her case which it could not have been if it wasn't true.

Why do you not believe she received death threats?
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Claiming to speak to the dead puts a question mark over her truthfulness whether she is deluded or not. It would be of financial advantage to claim real harm came from the libel. The police would take the claim seriously but did they find any evidence for it?
 
Porterboy said:
I don't see the connection. :confused: I'm talking about her testimony in a court case that won her £125,000 in damages, plus costs. Whether the dead really talk to her or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is that she made a complaint to the police and they took it seriously. It was part of her case which it could not have been if it wasn't true.

Why do you not believe she received death threats?
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See below.

Acleron said:
Claiming to speak to the dead puts a question mark over her truthfulness whether she is deluded or not. It would be of financial advantage to claim real harm came from the libel. The police would take the claim seriously but did they find any evidence for it?
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The lesson to be learned from this episode is very clear to me - The best way to beat these frauds is to educate their potential victims. That simply means continuing to do the things we already do here on the JREF forums such as exposing their techniques, highlighting their appalling accuracy, questioning their claims...

Making accusations in newspapers without solid evidence is not going to get the job done. We don't accept claims without evidence, so we can't make claims without evidence. R.S Lancaster's 'Stop Sylvia' website is a good example of the right way to do it - build a case and let people make their own mind up. It may take a while, but eventually we'll win.
 
A number of points.

I am not aware "psychic" is a registered religion.

Driving the con artists underground is a start. It is a disgrace that our government condones this LEGALISED THEFT from vulnerable people!

Proof of ability to communicate with dead people? Think for a moment. . . How loudly are people going to laugh when we are a little more sensible? Does anyone need "proof" that a person can not walk through a solid wall? Or that a person can not levitate? Or that something which does not exist can communicate? What a joke. Join the real world.

The thief, (Psychic Sally) is aware I am conducting the campaign against her so why does she not sue me for calling her a thief and charlatan? If you care to read the actual Daily Mail events, she got off because of errors on their part not claiming the correct facts!

We need to educate the feeble-minded but simply stopping these con artists/and/or/mentally ill from advertising or performing. The more they are allowed to openly claim this garbage, the more "new" people ,ay actually think it must be possible. We must make it clear, while you are free to believe whatever nonsense you wish, IT IS NONSENSE. . . . GARBAGE! . . . IMPOSSIBLE! . . . UNTRUE! . . . Use your brain for a second . . . YUP, GARBAGE!
 
azzthom said:
The lesson to be learned from this episode is very clear to me - The best way to beat these frauds is to educate their potential victims. That simply means continuing to do the things we already do here on the JREF forums such as exposing their techniques, highlighting their appalling accuracy, questioning their claims...

Making accusations in newspapers without solid evidence is not going to get the job done. We don't accept claims without evidence, so we can't make claims without evidence. R.S Lancaster's 'Stop Sylvia' website is a good example of the right way to do it - build a case and let people make their own mind up. It may take a while, but eventually we'll win.
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I feel you should direct your comments at the Daily Fail. AFAIK no high profile skeptic made unsubstantiated allegations. Personally I'm split over this, Morgan will make capital out of this but then it is pleasant to see the Fail get stuffed.
 
TheFamousCash said:
A number of points.

I am not aware "psychic" is a registered religion.
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Well it is. Specifically Spiritualism is a recognized religion. Of course there's a technical difference between worship at the Spiritualist church and paying for a specific private psychic service or going along to a theatre to watch a performance medium in action. But most of those who believe in it will not accept the distinction.
Driving the con artists underground is a start. It is a disgrace that our government condones this LEGALISED THEFT from vulnerable people!...
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Unfortunately your approach will achieve nothing except alienating people we could otherwise educate. It will solidify the walls between rational thought and belief and turn a productive debate into all-out war.
 
RenaissanceBiker said:
Zombie thread resurrection!

Sally Morgan accidentally channeled the spirit of a live audience member.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...d-faced-after-summoning-ALIVE-audience-member
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Ha! That's great. When I read the headline I assumed that it was a setup, but it turns out it was just a misunderstanding on the part of someone in the audience that led to Sally's error. Poor Sally doesn't even have anyone to blame for this. Well, she could blame herself for the whole 'scamming her audience' schtick.
 
TheFamousCash said:
Just to record the most obvious fact.

ANYONE claiming to be psychic is in one, or both, of only two states.

1) A CON ARTIST.

2) MENTALLY UNWELL.
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Or 3) Honestly mistaken.

Sceptics understand how unreliable our perceptions and memories are, we shouldn't be surprised that so many people are fooled by them.

It's possible that Sally Morgan is sincere and is inadvertently fooling herself as much as her audiences. Unlikely, but possible.
 
RenaissanceBiker said:
It would be hard to be honestly mistaken after this latest blunder.
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Some people are capable of the most extraordinary mental gymnastics in order to maintain a belief in which they are emotionally invested. We see examples here all the time. I'm sure a true believer could rationalise this away somehow.
 
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