Sally Morgan, A lesson to be learned

[Porterboy]

It's possible that Sally Morgan is sincere and is inadvertently fooling herself as much as her audiences. Unlikely, but possible.

Very unlikely considering the depth of her involvement in the business.

 

[mike3]

I am uncertain whether I can agree with that. Belief,like everything else, is a spectrum. It ranges from the gullible fool to the cynical shill. In my time, I have happened upon both ends of that spectrum and every shade between.

My father was into stage magic. Not my gig, I prefer close-up and impromptu stuff. However, once (among many) I assisted at a concert, he did his thing on stage, I managed the hardware and so forth. At the end, we were packing up and we were accosted by a heaving bosom of righteous indignation, fulminating against our display of satanic, ungodly powers, and on and on and on. This ...thing believed it was real.

To this day it is not uncommon for me to be accused of demon worship when I perform an illusion, but that was the most vehement, vitriol and spittle filled, bile-ridden catholic delusion it has ever been my privilege to witness all of it borne out of superstition.

And thus we come to dowsing. The easiest person to fool is yourself. Yes, back in the day, I did so briefly, until I said "hey, wait a minute" (kudos to pops) and checked it out for sure. He said not a word, but I think he took a certain pride that I figured it out myself without prompting. In later life, it became a competition. "Betcha can't figure out how I did that". It became somewhat of an amusing good natured arms race.

Many times, when pressed to demonstrate a "trick" he would catch my eye and give me the nod, and we would proceed to pull off illusions that would grow in the telling afterwards amazingly. This is one of the things which made me understand what eyewitness testimony really means. Often, people recounted not only what me an my father did, but even things which never happened.

The bottom line is there exist people who believe I violate the laws of physics. I am content to leave them in their pit of gullible belief. It gets me party invitations.

So when you say "I am uncertain whether I can agree with that", are you saying one or more of:

1. ignorance may not be excusable at all,

2. willful ignorance may be excusable (?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)

3. people should not be impressed by "dowsing" if they don't know better

and if so, which?

Also, does this mean you need to be a professional magician to really be able to debunk these things and to analyze them well enough to avoid falling for them? How did you manage to learn how to avoid fooling yourself?

What is the first question that you ask when you see something that would look to a naive observer like something paranormal?

 

[Strange famous]

Whilst no sensible person would condone making death threats to anyone, perhaps this might turn out to be a good thing.

It might bring things to a head and stop this con artist from making fortunes out of fools!

The joke case (Daily Mail) is hopefully the start to bring this thief DOWN!

Just to record the most obvious fact.

ANYONE claiming to be psychic is in one, or both, of only two states.

1) A CON ARTIST.

2) MENTALLY UNWELL.

Protect the feeble-minded. Join the campaign to change our stupid laws which actually condone LEGALISED THEFT!

Email your M.P. requesting the issue be raised in parliament. to prohibit these thieves from advertising or performing.

I sort of have to disagree here.

While it may be the case that professional medium's can and do exploit vulnerable people in some cases - you could argue that whether their communications are true or not (and for the sake of not getting side tracked, lets say you are right and they are never true - they are either making it up or its schizophrenia) do help people sometimes.

Sally Morgan isnt telling people their dead mum wants them to give all their money to Sally Morgan. She is telling them "oh yes, she is happy now, no more pain, she is watching over you, she says you deserve to be happy" etc... if she is making it all up, is it a bad thing? Is the person she is telling that to suffering or taking comfort? is it materially that different to what some churches are like?

_

But the second thing I was going to say is that you are completely wrong if you think most people who go to her shows take it seriously at all, at least in my opinion. My girlfriend and a load of her mates from work went to a "psychic night" last month. None of them believed in it before they went, one girl got a generic and positive message from a dead relative which she identified as "he knew stuff he shouldnt have done" and therefore believed in, but also took comfort in. For everybody else it was just a bit of fun, a night out. It isnt any more expensive than going to see a comedian or a bingo hall, or dog racing, or a play... and for most people who go it is a fundamentally different experience from any of those things either.

 

[Pixel42]

Sally Morgan isnt telling people their dead mum wants them to give all their money to Sally Morgan. She is telling them "oh yes, she is happy now, no more pain, she is watching over you, she says you deserve to be happy" etc... if she is making it all up, is it a bad thing?

Objections to this sort of reading are generally that:

1. The medium is taking money that the bereaved can often ill afford under false pretences

2. The bereaved might never complete the stages of grieving and achieve the closure that is generally considered healthy, and move on with their lives, if they are convinced they are still in contact with their deceased loved one

3. Genuine, precious, last memories of a deceased loved one are trampled over and overwritten by false memories of someone who makes contact from "the other side" in order to deliver banal messages

Obviously these objections apply more to private readings than to these shows, but the latter can often be the "gateway drug" to the former.

 

[Dubious Dick]

I sort of have to disagree here.

While it may be the case that professional medium's can and do exploit vulnerable people in some cases - you could argue that whether their communications are true or not (and for the sake of not getting side tracked, lets say you are right and they are never true - they are either making it up or its schizophrenia) do help people sometimes.

Sally Morgan isnt telling people their dead mum wants them to give all their money to Sally Morgan. She is telling them "oh yes, she is happy now, no more pain, she is watching over you, she says you deserve to be happy" etc... if she is making it all up, is it a bad thing? Is the person she is telling that to suffering or taking comfort? is it materially that different to what some churches are like?

_

But the second thing I was going to say is that you are completely wrong if you think most people who go to her shows take it seriously at all, at least in my opinion. My girlfriend and a load of her mates from work went to a "psychic night" last month. None of them believed in it before they went, one girl got a generic and positive message from a dead relative which she identified as "he knew stuff he shouldnt have done" and therefore believed in, but also took comfort in. For everybody else it was just a bit of fun, a night out. It isnt any more expensive than going to see a comedian or a bingo hall, or dog racing, or a play... and for most people who go it is a fundamentally different experience from any of those things either.

Having surveyed an audience attending a psychic show, the majority were indeed there in the hope of receiving messages from a dead loved one. The defence that it is entertainment only does not wash. While here in the U.K. they sometimes put that disclaimer on publicity material it is a tiny figleaf to try to avoid prosecution under Consumer Protection Law. The fact is that the 'psychic mediums' sell themselves a being able to communicate with the dead. That is their whole raison d'etre, and they never state that their sole purpose is entertianment. Only the honest entertainers like Derren Brown make this clear.

As for simple comforting messages, you have clearly not seen this story:


http://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/16/psychic-sally-morgan-deluded-harmless


http://web.archive.org/web/20080216070152/http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=681

Or perhaps this one:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/real-life/womans-pain-celebrity-psychic-sally-4417037

Some may go along for the fun of it, but many reports suggest that these shows are simply awful and not very entertaining (perhaps Colin Fry doing Magnus, or Derek Acorah channelling a dog "woof, woof, woof" are exceptions), and sadly their money goes into the pockets of frauds and charlatans, and helps support them in their work. Such attendance also helps to give the impression that they are super popular. Surely there is better entertainment to be had?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

In addition to what's already been said, on the point of helping people who are grieving - we're not talking about grief councillors, here, people who are actually trained to help people who are grieving, we're talking about people who make stuff up in order to take money from the grieving.

And, as to the point about religion, you're rather assuming that people here give a free pass to religions on this issue. That's not a safe assumption.

 

[Resume]

I sort of have to disagree here.

While it may be the case that professional medium's can and do exploit vulnerable people in some cases - you could argue that whether their communications are true or not (and for the sake of not getting side tracked, lets say you are right and they are never true - they are either making it up or its schizophrenia) do help people sometimes.

Sally Morgan isnt telling people their dead mum wants them to give all their money to Sally Morgan. She is telling them "oh yes, she is happy now, no more pain, she is watching over you, she says you deserve to be happy" etc... if she is making it all up, is it a bad thing? Is the person she is telling that to suffering or taking comfort? is it materially that different to what some churches are like?

_

But the second thing I was going to say is that you are completely wrong if you think most people who go to her shows take it seriously at all, at least in my opinion. My girlfriend and a load of her mates from work went to a "psychic night" last month. None of them believed in it before they went, one girl got a generic and positive message from a dead relative which she identified as "he knew stuff he shouldnt have done" and therefore believed in, but also took comfort in. For everybody else it was just a bit of fun, a night out. It isnt any more expensive than going to see a comedian or a bingo hall, or dog racing, or a play... and for most people who go it is a fundamentally different experience from any of those things either.

Oh, what's the harm?

Well, here you go:
http://whatstheharm.net/psychics.html