The state of FL v. George Zimmerman

[Cylinder]

They are going to dismiss jury, then address the "donnelly issue"

Yup. They are doing an inquiry on Donnelly. WFTV said the witness was not under subpoena. Guess we're about to find out.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

If Flieshman comes in, this trial lasts another 2 weeks for surrebuttal - that would open the door to all the FBI and FDLE agents to come rushing through. Very doubtful this gets in on merits - plus it shreds the judges schedule. She don't like that.

I think, just on scheduling,it doesn't come in.

I understand the the JDN wants to move this along, due to sequestering the jury, but I am still befuddled by this magic schedule that appears to control all sorts of things, way more important than witnesses or anything else...

 

[Skeletor]

Looks like Donnelly's testimony is staying put...huge win for the defense.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Court is very,very,very,very concerned about the rule of sequestration and the council abiding by the rules.

However, witness didn't know, and JDN does not think he materially changed his testimony. No sanctions.

I think she pretty much told the prosecution, don't call the ATF guy, although she has not ruled on it.

Once that is decided, I think all that is left is closing arguments, starting tomorrow at 10:00 AM.

ETA: and wrangling over jury instructions between each other

 

[Cylinder]

So the offenses charged are Second Degree Murder, Aggravated Assault with Firearm and Manslaughter. Were there any others listed that I missed in the charging conference?

 

[Cylinder]

MOM: We're done.

He asserts that the state has agreed that there will be no rebuttal case presented which means no surrebuttal.

 

[Cylinder]

To clarify, the lesser-included offenses have not been agreed upon. There will be a charging conference in the morning to argue lesser. MOM just asserted that Second Degree Murder is the only charge that is appropriate in light of the second denial of the judgment of acquittal.

 

[dudalb]

Looks like Donnelly's testimony is staying put...huge win for the defense.

Thing is any lawyer will tell you that throwing a witnesses testimony out after the Jury has heard it is often a case of closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out...the judge might tell the jury to disregard the testimony but that is often hard to do.

 

[Cylinder]

Day 13 (Defense Rests):

Morning Arguments, Court Rules on Animation, Texts [1]
Dennis Root, Self Defense Expert (Part 1) [1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6]
Noon Arguments, Zimmerman Inquiry and Objections [1]
Dennis Root, Self Defense Expert (Part 2) [1 - 2 - 3 - 4]
Olivia Bertalan, RATL Crime Victim [1 - 2 - 3]
Robert Zimmerman, Sr., Zimmerman's Father [1 - 2]
Zimmerman Inquiry and Waiver [1]
Judgment of Acquittal Argument and Ruling [1]

State's Attempted Rebuttal Case, Scheduling [1 - 2]
Hearing on Sequestration Violations [1 - 2 - 3]
Jury Instruction Conference [1]

 

[WildCat]

Witnesses who were not called - Austin Brown and Mary Cutcher. I guess neither side was sure how they'd testify or felt they had credibility problems.

 

[PhantomWolf]

To clarify, the lesser-included offenses have not been agreed upon. There will be a charging conference in the morning to argue lesser. MOM just asserted that Second Degree Murder is the only charge that is appropriate in light of the second denial of the judgment of acquittal.

This seems weird to me as I'd have thought that you should know what possible charges you are facing prior to the trial so you can defend against them, not having them determined afterwards once the Prosecution knows how well, or poorly, its case went.

So the offenses charged are Second Degree Murder, Aggravated Assault with Firearm and Manslaughter. Were there any others listed that I missed in the charging conference?

Assuming that these are the ones chosen, what does the State have to prove to get a conviction for each one, leaving aside that Self Defence would obviously trump any of them.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Top headline on CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/sanford-bill-lee-exclusive/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Ex-chief: Zimmerman probe hijacked 'They just wanted an arrest,' he says

"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."

It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.

The short video interview is worth watching. He also talks about what a screw up it was the way the tapes were played for the family as a group.

 

[Cylinder]

This seems weird to me as I'd have thought that you should know what possible charges you are facing prior to the trial so you can defend against them, not having them determined afterwards once the Prosecution knows how well, or poorly, its case went.

It has to do with the actions that the state alleges. Basically the state alleges:

- Trayvon Martin was a person who died.
- His death was the result of Zimmerman shooting him.
- Zimmerman shooting him was likely to cause death or great bodily injury.
- Zimmerman shooting him was unlawful.
- At the time Zimmerman shot him he displayed ill-will, spite or hatred (aka "depraved mind")

Proving different combinations of those fact may make the jury conclude that different crimes were committed.

Assuming that these are the ones chosen, what does the State have to prove to get a conviction for each one, leaving aside that Self Defence would obviously trump any of them.

Second Degree Murder - all of the above. If they prove everything but depraved mind, they have manslaughter. How they get to ag assault is above my pay grade. If they fail to prove Zimmerman acted unlawfully, none of the above would apply.

The crime of Aggravated Assault is defined as:

1.An intentional and unlawful threat - by word or act - to commit violence against another person;

2.With the apparent ability to carry through with the threat at the time it was made;

3.And the threat created a genuine fear in the intended victim that the violence was imminent; and

4.The accused made the threat: ◦With a Deadly Weapon, or In the commission of a Felony.

I guess the jury could decide that Zimmerman committed aggravated assault, a fight broke out, then Zimmerman became justified in shooting Martin. That isn't really supported by statute so the defense should have a strong argument against this lesser-included offense.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Court back in session to argue over jury instructions.

Defense is going to argue that choices are second degree murder or not guilty.

Mantei is arguing for manslaughter now ...

ETA: it will be included

 

[Cylinder]

State has dropped aggravated assault and are now asking for 3rd degree felony murder. Arguing lesser now.

 

[Cylinder]

Manslaughter by Act is in. (Culpable Negligence is out)

 

[Cylinder]

Aggravated assault is out.

 

[Cylinder]

Now they are arguing child abuse as an independent felony for 3rd degree felony murder. This is the most inane argument ever. Zimmerman wasn't a caregiver and the independent felony has to be charged.

 

[Cylinder]

West: OMG! Is the court really going to consider this. This is outrageous.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Now they are arguing child abuse as an independent felony for 3rd degree felony murder. This is the most inane argument ever. Zimmerman wasn't a caregiver and the independent felony has to be charged.

Don West: Just when I thought case couldn't get more bizarre, the state's now arguing it's 3rd degree felony murder based on child abuse.