Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Mary_H]

Actually, Massei said the trial phase when it was requested was too late, since the semen stain result would have been only "explorative" evidence (useful to investigate the truth) but not determinant evidence (could not change the finding of guilt or innocence).

Heaven forbid.

<snip>The issue is to me anyway irrelevant. In fact, it only shows how little interest I have in the topic of Knox's clothes itself.

That's nice. You probably have just as little interest in anything else that weakens the prosecution's case. Don't you think it's a rather careless attitude to have, when people's lives are at stake?

I am interested instead in your method of making up assertions. You still assert that clothes were not collected, and you are unable to prove it.

And I am interested in the prosecution's method of making up assertions. They still assert A & R are guilty and they are unable to prove it.

 

[Grinder]

Hi Grinder,
Just a FYI,
From what I read,
Nara was a "super witness" as early as April 15, 2008...

Oops. The theory of multiple attackers had only been out there for a few months but the point remains the same, she knew that they suspected more than one, hence the report that she heard more than one footfall wasn't really evidence.

 

[Bill Williams]

I knew AngloLawyer was at the root of this. He was asking you why the (alleged) semen stain has not been tested. You seemed completely unaware of Judge Massei's reasoning, that even if it had turned out to be semen, semen bears no time stamp.

Quote:
T
THEN you made reference to clothes collected at Rudy's apartment!!!!!!!

Actually, Massei said the trial phase when it was requested was too late, since the semen stain result would have been only "explorative" evidence (useful to investigate the truth) but not determinant evidence (could not change the finding of guilt or innocence).

Not according to the motivations report he didn't. He was very clear, Massei said it had to do with semen to being "time stamped". I am sorry you are confused about this.... but apparently, you can say anything you want about what was said at trial, because after all you can pick and choose.

According to you, then, Massei redrets writing the motivations report, because he now disagrees with your own stellar analysis.

Sorry, I made a mistake reading the Stefanoni report because the title was unreadable. Actually, the items mentioned appeared to as listed as items sequestrated on 11-06-2007 and named as "reperti riferibili a KNOX Amanda Marie" because the "Guede apartment" title is unreadable, and I assumed the items from Guede's apartment items were listed as only #224-228.

The issue is to me anyway irrelevant. In fact, it only shows how little interest I have in the topic of Knox's clothes itself.
I am interested instead in your method of making up assertions. You still assert that clothes were not collected, and you are unable to prove it.

Your apology is accepted.

However, you now show little interest in actually solving this horrible crime. The very clothes worn by one of the people you unjustly vilify now has no interest to you.

I will add this to the list of "Machavelli-isms" which show how bizarre this case is as prosecuted. Heck, now the very clothes your alleged murderer wore are of no interest.

But.... you have a heroin dealer as a prime witness, and you believe that Knox knew Guede beforehand where one traded sex for drugs with the other.

You also deny that Mr. Mignini's very first motive he advanced for this whole horrible affair was a ritualistic killing associated with Hallowe'en. I call it his "Satanic rite" motive, although, perhaps you are more correct, Mr. Machiavelli.

You also claim lay-expertise in sleep issues to argue that Ms. Knox was fresh and ready to go at interrogation.

Should I cut and paste your nonsense about that, too?

By disavowing interest in Knox's clothing after spending 10 days avoiding talking about it means you are in full retreat mode. Why do you bother embarrassing yourself like this?

 

[Grinder]

Mach I think that we need a better source than Massei on when Chiriboga was asked about seeing Amanda.

To this it should be added that witness Ana Marina Chiriboga, at the time an employee in Quintavalle’s shop, said that Quintavalle asked her whether that morning she had seen Amanda and Chiriboga answered no (page 74, hearing on June 26, 2009). This question necessarily presupposes that Mr. Quintavalle had seen
85
Amanda Knox that morning [My comment: it presupposes at most that he thought he had seen her or at least that he was trying to make a lie more believable]. And since he did not know whether or not she had bought anything (see above-mentioned statements by Quintavalle, hearing on March 21, 2009), he was asking his employees in order to gather information on that subject. [I think the last sentence makes it clear it wasn't the morning of the 2nd]

Quintavalle asked Chiraboga about seeing Amanda but not the morning of the 2nd. He asked her at a later time when he was preparing to be interviewed, at least that's how I read it and remember it.

The translation was done without the aid of a professional so mistakes were made.`

 

[RWVBWL]

more Marco vs Marina...

Hi Machiavelli,
She did?!?

She stated she didn't notice a girl had entered, but she recalls that Quintavalle saw a girl for sure, since minutes after he basically pointed out to her that a girl had entered, he told her (I paraphrase) "have you seen the girl?"

Got a link?

I don't know what I have in documents, but Massei is quite clear.

Greetings from Los Angeles, Machiavelli!
And thanks for the response.

Care to dig up any info in them "documents" you have on The Marco vs Marina discussion?
I know it's late in Italy, I can wait...


Anyways, here's some thoughts:
I thought that Amanda Knox was waiting outside for the Conad store to open, right?

Surely Marina saw her then too, coo-rect?
But she says that she did not, right?

Look,
I too used to run a retail store.
I personally know from being the boss in a small store,
it is common courtesy to say "hi" and great each customer as they enter your store.
And great for business too...

Or while they wait outside for you to open the security bars, unlock the front door, turn on the lights,
turn on the Sensormatic anti-theft security machine, the CCTV cameras, the cash register, start the surf videos playing, you get my drift, right?


"Hi, we'll be open in a few minutes, ok?"

That's what I woulda said to Miss Knox if she was waiting in front of my old surfshop to by some wax,
a new winter wetsuit, or a new longboard surfboard...

Especially if she had vivid, piercing blue eyes!

Wasn't Marina there when her boss opened his store,
ready to get to work?
A Latina, I'd bet $$$ that she was on time...

Marco"
"Hey Marina, please go help the customer, ok?"

If Marina was late to work,
wouldn't Marco, after opening his stores front doors,
have asked his 1st customer of the day if she needed something?
"Hi, what can I do for you?"
"Oh, the cleaning supplies are over there"
Etc...

Surely he woulda had a brief,
few second conversation with Amanda+those piercing blue eyes of hers, right?


Come on, Machiavelli!
There was a horrible, brutal, bloody murder right down the street.
Everyone was talking about it, everyone!!!
Right?

And Marco did not tell the cops about a girl he saw waiting and then entering his store and heading to the cleaning section on the morning after this murder when he was questioned by the police with-in days afterwards?

Why
Did his memory fail?
Hmmmm...


How come Marina could recall the name of the Ace bleach,
their location, and the amount inside the bottles right after this murder with such precision?
Because it was very recent, still fresh in her mind?
Check this out:

After the crime she had been interviewed by Sollecito's lawyers and then by the police about something important at that time and (for someone) still important now: the bleach. She confirmed the two bottles of Ace bleach had been in Raffaele's apartment since the summer and in exactly the same conditions, and on the same place, in which they were found after the crime, one still sealed and the other one half full.

How come the Italian law enforcement did not even know that Marina,
with her precise memory, also worked for Marco?

And how come she could say for certain that Amanda Knox was not in the Conad store
on the morning of Nov. 2, 2007?

 

[MDDVS]

The absence of any logical argument about anything - besides your prejudicial insults and rants - is the glaring feature of your latest posts.

If your opinion about something is negative, it does not necessarily mean that it is based on prejudice.

 

[Bill Williams]

3) As for the interrogation - Machiavelli has already floated the theory, based on his extensive clinical experience in sleep issues, to declare that Knox was rested and ready to go, apparently immune to sleep deprivation. I have Machiavelli's statement to that effect saved, just in case he wishes to come back to JREF or IIP. She was, acc. to Machiavelli, in fighting trim at 11:30 m Nov 5 to hoodwink seasoned investigators; who as a result are either stupid or not very seasoned.

No, my 'theory' is not based on my extensive clinical experience in sleep issues; it is based above all on what Amanda Knox wrote herself and on testimonies (including her own).
However I think I am, to some extent, an expert in sleep issues. Not because of professional studies, but first of all because I used to suffer of sleep issues. When you are a patient, you become an expert. I think I am an expert about sleep deprivation, it's 02.47 now here.
I'm not the only one with strange sleep patters in my familiy. I have a younger sister who had the most spectatular symptoms of sleep anomalies, sleepwalkings and parasomnia; she was an extremely intereting study case, she was observed by researchers from a sleep-study center.
My relatives are also all doctors; my mother used to be an anesthesiologist university professor, she worked at the Cleveland Clinics in the US; without having chosen so, I happen to know a lot about toxicology, drugs and sleep. I never went to a doctor except for sleep, always been healthy, but when I was a child I had more medicaments in my home than in Michael Jacskon's.
In my life, then working in theatre, I learnt about hypnosys techniques, trance, body language, things of the kind. I think I may tell your "sleep deprivation" from the color of your skin, face, eyes movements, fine hand movements and many other things.
But sleep deprivation has nothing to do with Knox's action such as the hand written note, not even on the cognitive side. She was never confused, she was ambiguous, double-talking, not confuse. All what she did tells about her being lucid, awake and in control.

Just to bring this back...... from June 24. Do you purposely embarrass yourself?

 

[Bill Williams]

This is Machiavelli's nonsense about why Mignini never spoke of the motive in the horrible Kercher murder as a "satan rite".... or a "ritualistic killing".

Please note how he first tries to distance Mignini's use of language from anything "organized" like what a cultic practise would be, then compare with the highlighted part.

Ask yourself.... is Machiavelli trying to solve this crime, or is he trying to shift blame away from Mignini for a wrongful prosecution?

Read it and see if you agree.... it's from April 2013

Mignini never claimed that the murder of Meredith Kercher was a ritual killing.
Although he did use the word "rito" in the statement "rito sessuale casereccio" (note also that, in Italian the word "rito" maybe well used rather extensively and has not necessarily a narrow meaning as "rite" in English; in fact the short-track trial is called "rito abbreviato": where "rito" means obviously "procedure"; obviously Mignini means rito in the sense of some perverse sexual practice; he does not mean anything related to a cult).
Mignini also did speculate that there was a kind of organized thing inspired to the Halloween atmosphere (hence the implicit suggestion of a "ritualistic" style in that sexual practice).
But the point is another one. The reason why Preston and the Knox supporters are liars, is not just about the twisting of the word "rito"; it is above all because of the word "Satanic".
Preston is a liar (and many of you on this site are liars), first place because of they attribute to Mignini the words "Satanic" and "cult".

There is also another point where Preston is a liar, which is the dates. The wild allegation consists in the claim Mignini would have talked about a "Satanic ritual" or a "cult" muder just a few days after the arrests.
In fact, the first time the word "rito sessuale" was ever used, it was at the preliminary hearing, one year later.

So Machiavelli is saying that at worst, Preston got the date wrong. But to support that contention Machiavelli admits the use of the term "rito sessuale".

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

This is Machiavelli's nonsense about why Mignini never spoke of the motive in the horrible Kercher murder as a "satan rite".... or a "ritualistic killing".

Please note how he first tries to distance Mignini's use of language from anything "organized" like what a cultic practise would be, then compare with the highlighted part.

Ask yourself.... is Machiavelli trying to solve this crime, or is he trying to shift blame away from Mignini for a wrongful prosecution?

Read it and see if you agree.... it's from April 2013

So Machiavelli is saying that at worst, Preston got the date wrong. But to support that contention Machiavelli admits the use of the term "rito sessuale".

It's true that Mignini never used the term "satanic," that I know of.

The original media source for this seems to be Messagero Umbria of Oct. 19, 2008, which contains a discourse on the crime that is attributed to Mignini. Someone posted an English translation on a blog, which he later closed to the public because he felt his work was being misused somehow.

The translated article includes the following:

“...what’s more, the three, and especially Sollecito, were very susceptible to ‘cultural’ influences, erotic-murders which have already been spoken about. That night was the feast day of the Saints, the Catholic ‘heir’ to the Celtic new-year Samhain, with all the implications which are focused on the eve of the feast day, that is the night between Oct 31 and Nov 1.”

This was presented as a "satanic" theory in Peter Popham's coverage in the Independent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-in-neck-as-part-of-satanic-rite-966242.html

The label stuck. I have avoided using it, convenient though it may be, because I am sensitive to the problems that can arise from careless vernacular. In some criminal cases, people who dabbled in goofy but harmless pagan practices were labeled satanists, and neither the media nor the court cared about the distinction. Most recently this happened in Cornwall, UK, where a man named Peter Petrauske was convicted of child abuse charges that I think were trumped up.

What Mignini describes sounds like something out of Norma... a dark fantasy that is more pagan than satanic. It really doesn't matter. The important point is that Mignini introduced a wild theory born of superstition and his own religious mania rather than evidence. He is a crank who should not be in charge of any serious criminal investigation.

 

[Bill Williams]

This is Machiavelli's nonsense about why Mignini never spoke of the motive in the horrible Kercher murder as a "satan rite".... or a "ritualistic killing".

Please note how he first tries to distance Mignini's use of language from anything "organized" like what a cultic practise would be, then compare with the highlighted part.

Ask yourself.... is Machiavelli trying to solve this crime, or is he trying to shift blame away from Mignini for a wrongful prosecution?

Read it and see if you agree.... it's from April 2013

So Machiavelli is saying that at worst, Preston got the date wrong. But to support that contention Machiavelli admits the use of the term "rito sessuale".

It's true that Mignini never used the term "satanic," that I know of.

The original media source for this seems to be Messagero Umbria of Oct. 19, 2008, which contains a discourse on the crime that is attributed to Mignini. Someone posted an English translation on a blog, which he later closed to the public because he felt his work was being misused somehow.

The translated article includes the following:

“...what’s more, the three, and especially Sollecito, were very susceptible to ‘cultural’ influences, erotic-murders which have already been spoken about. That night was the feast day of the Saints, the Catholic ‘heir’ to the Celtic new-year Samhain, with all the implications which are focused on the eve of the feast day, that is the night between Oct 31 and Nov 1.”

This was presented as a "satanic" theory in Peter Popham's coverage in the Independent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-in-neck-as-part-of-satanic-rite-966242.html

The label stuck. I have avoided using it, convenient though it may be, because I am sensitive to the problems that can arise from careless vernacular. In some criminal cases, people who dabbled in goofy but harmless pagan practices were labeled satanists, and neither the media nor the court cared about the distinction. Most recently this happened in Cornwall, UK, where a man named Peter Petrauske was convicted of child abuse charges that I think were trumped up.

What Mignini describes sounds like something out of Norma... a dark fantasy that is more pagan than satanic. It really doesn't matter. The important point is that Mignini introduced a wild theory born of superstition and his own religious mania rather than evidence. He is a crank who should not be in charge of any serious criminal investigation.

It's true, we should all be as precise as possible. Machiavelli himself bristles at the term "satanic", and as you point out, he is perhaps right to object to it's use, perhaps not to bristle....

Then again, even Machiavelli admits to the use of the term highlighted above. And whereas it is inappropriate to lump all Wiccan and/or earth religions together - esp. as understood in medieval Italy......

...... the term that Machiavelli admits was used is "rito sessuale" which can refer to a sexualized ritual common in some Wiccan practises. The ritual involves a knife ritually placed into a cup of wine, with male/female symbolism intended.

At this point, then, it is hard to tell where Mignini's theory as advanced at Rudy's trial ends and the "sex-game gone wrong" begins. My bet is that Machiavelli will continue to use the term "rito sessuale" because that is perhaps most close to what the ISC insists be examined in the new Florence appeal's trial.

I, for one, would like to hear from Machiavelli, or any other Italian who know the background really - what the difference is between a "rito sessuale" as a sexual ritual, or as (my bet) Machiavelli will try to characterize it as simply a sex-game gone wrong - what ever that is.

I mean, what the heck is the evidence which even supports it? The British women at testimony talked about normal household tensions, like when a racing stripe is left in a toilet. Or perhaps some jealousy between Amanda and Meredith, that Judge Massei did not even believe.

Just what is this "rito sessuale" anyway? What evidence is there that remotely involves the two students? Aside from Mignini's assertion at Rudy's trial, by the time Hellmann's trial was over, Mignini had the, "they just did it for no reason at all," theory.

 

[RWVBWL]

What HE didn't want you to read anymore...

Hi all,
We discuss a brutal bloody murder.
As such, I feel that we need to know as much info as possible to really understand this case...

Here's a few tid-bits that I have recently learned of,
from a blog that it apparently seems PM Mignini does not want you nor I to read anymore:

There was a shoe print found on a post card in Filomena's bedroom.
May 12, 2008 article

Rudy's rent was $320 E.
June 19, 2008 article

Christian T. was neighbors with Rudy.
May 5, 2008 article

The tow truck driver spotted an old dark car, with an old plate,
just like the 1 Kokomani drove, parked in the top of the driveway of Miss Kercher's flat the night she was slain.
April 2, 2009 article

Nara had her basement broken into.
April 18, 2009 article

Etc...


To make it easy,
I am gonna post links to The Old Perugia Shock below.
By Year, sorted by Month, cool?

2007
Nov:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182858/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html

Dec:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182845/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

2008
Jan:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182759/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html

Feb:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182744/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html

March:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182732/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html

April:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182717/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html

May:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182701/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

June:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182653/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html

July:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182641/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html

Aug:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182621/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

Sept:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182607/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

Oct:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182552/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html

Nov:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182544/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html

Dec:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182529/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html

 

[RWVBWL]

Part 2

2009

Jan:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182454/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html

Feb:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182441/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html

March:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182429/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

April:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182419/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

May:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182403/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html

June:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182350/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html

July:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182343/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html

Aug:
None

Sept:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182134/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html

Oct:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182008/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_10_01_archive.html

Nov:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181601/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.html

Dec:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181249/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_12_01_archive.html

 

[RWVBWL]

Part 3

2010

Jan:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181051/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html

Feb:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181012/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html

March:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180907/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.html

April:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180856/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

May:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180836/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.html

June:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180824/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html

July:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180808/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_07_01_archive.html

Aug:
None

Sept:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180751/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html

Oct:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180740/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html

Someone does not want you to read the above. Why?

 

[anglolawyer]

Thanks RW. I thought you made a good observation in your post about how shopkeepers usually treat their customers. Maybe we should also remember the fact that she didn't actually buy anything. Did anyone ask Quintavalle what he was out of that morning? I know this one has been rationalised away (she changed her mind) but it's part of the furtive clean up theory, not just an alibi-breaker.

Meanwhile, in another part of the forest, over at IIP, Mach has now set out his 10-point case against Hellman. It's all loopy innuendo but oddly includes no claim to know the amount Hellman was paid (which I believe Mach has claimed to know before). A major charge is that Hellman owns too many fancy cars for someone on a judge's salary.

 

[RWVBWL]

Fingerprints...

Supposedly 97 fingerprints were found inside the the upstairs flat.

In a post from 4/23/2009,
I read of this:

47 belonged to Meredith Kercher, 17 to Rudy Guede, 5 to Raffaele Sollecito, 5 to Filomena Romanelli, 5 to Laura Mezzetti, 4 to Giacomo Silenzi, 1 to Amanda Knox, 13 were not attributed to anyone.

+

We thought, for instance, that Meredith's cellphones were submerged with fingerprints since the many people who touched them before knowing they were so important. And instead only two prints were found on them and one inside one of them.

Anyone know whom the 2 fingerprints that were supposedly found on Miss Kercher's cell phone belonged to?

I also wonder who left the 13 un-attributed fingerprints there?

 

[RandyN]

Hi all,
We discuss a brutal bloody murder.
As such, I feel that we need to know as much info as possible to really understand this case...

Here's a few tid-bits that I have recently learned of,
from a blog that it apparently seems PM Mignini does not want you nor I to read anymore:

There was a shoe print found on a post card in Filomena's bedroom.
May 12, 2008 article

Rudy's rent was $320 E.
June 19, 2008 article

Christian T. was neighbors with Rudy.
May 5, 2008 article

The tow truck driver spotted an old dark car, with an old plate,
just like the 1 Kokomani drove, parked in the top of the driveway of Miss Kercher's flat the night she was slain.
April 2, 2009 article

Nara had her basement broken into.
April 18, 2009 article

Etc...


To make it easy,
I am gonna post links to The Old Perugia Shock below.
By Year, sorted by Month, cool?

2007
Nov:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182858/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html

Dec:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182845/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

2008
Jan:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182759/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html

Feb:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182744/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html

March:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182732/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html

April:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182717/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html

May:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182701/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

June:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182653/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html

July:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182641/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html

Aug:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182621/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

Sept:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182607/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

Oct:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182552/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html

Nov:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182544/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html

Dec:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182529/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html

Hey Randy...thanks for these links full of critical information about this case. It appears Perugia Shock has been taken over.

 

[RandyN]

2009

Jan:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182454/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html

Feb:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182441/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html

March:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182429/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

April:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182419/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

May:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182403/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html

June:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182350/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html

July:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182343/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html

Aug:
None

Sept:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182134/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html

Oct:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182008/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_10_01_archive.html

Nov:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181601/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.html

Dec:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181249/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_12_01_archive.html

Randy,

Thanks for providing these links of critical information for this case we are discussing.

 

[RandyN]

2010

Jan:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181051/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html

Feb:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015181012/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html

March:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180907/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.html

April:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180856/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

May:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180836/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.html

June:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180824/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html

July:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180808/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_07_01_archive.html

Aug:
None

Sept:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180751/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html

Oct:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015180740/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html

Someone does not want you to read the above. Why?

Randy ,

Thanks for these important links...I agree that someone doesn't want us to read this information anymore.

 

[Mary_H]

It's true, we should all be as precise as possible. Machiavelli himself bristles at the term "satanic", and as you point out, he is perhaps right to object to it's use, perhaps not to bristle....

Then again, even Machiavelli admits to the use of the term highlighted above. And whereas it is inappropriate to lump all Wiccan and/or earth religions together - esp. as understood in medieval Italy......

...... the term that Machiavelli admits was used is "rito sessuale" which can refer to a sexualized ritual common in some Wiccan practises. The ritual involves a knife ritually placed into a cup of wine, with male/female symbolism intended.

At this point, then, it is hard to tell where Mignini's theory as advanced at Rudy's trial ends and the "sex-game gone wrong" begins. My bet is that Machiavelli will continue to use the term "rito sessuale" because that is perhaps most close to what the ISC insists be examined in the new Florence appeal's trial.

I, for one, would like to hear from Machiavelli, or any other Italian who know the background really - what the difference is between a "rito sessuale" as a sexual ritual, or as (my bet) Machiavelli will try to characterize it as simply a sex-game gone wrong - what ever that is.

I mean, what the heck is the evidence which even supports it? The British women at testimony talked about normal household tensions, like when a racing stripe is left in a toilet. Or perhaps some jealousy between Amanda and Meredith, that Judge Massei did not even believe.

Just what is this "rito sessuale" anyway? What evidence is there that remotely involves the two students? Aside from Mignini's assertion at Rudy's trial, by the time Hellmann's trial was over, Mignini had the, "they just did it for no reason at all," theory.

The sex-game-gone-wrong theory first seems to show up in the English articles about Claudia Matteini's report of November 9, 2007, which affirmed the arrests of the three original suspects. The Telegraph's headline is "Meredith killed during 'extreme sex game'." However, they don't quote Matteini as having written anything about a game -- they quote her as claiming Sollecito wanted to experience "strong emotions," as he had written in his blog the previous month, and that the two men were interested in sexual relations with Meredith.

I'm not sure the English papers were the first to call it a sex-game-gone-wrong -- they may have gotten it from the Italian papers, from which they were borrowing a lot of stuff at the beginning. I don't know when or if Mignini ever said it.

Interestingly, Massei does not mention sex game anywhere, but the new Supreme Court ruling does, more than once. Apparently, they read about the case in the newspapers.

 

[RandyN]

Thanks RW. I thought you made a good observation in your post about how shopkeepers usually treat their customers. Maybe we should also remember the fact that she didn't actually buy anything. Did anyone ask Quintavalle what he was out of that morning? I know this one has been rationalised away (she changed her mind) but it's part of the furtive clean up theory, not just an alibi-breaker.

Meanwhile, in another part of the forest, over at IIP, Mach has now set out his 10-point case against Hellman. It's all loopy innuendo but oddly includes no claim to know the amount Hellman was paid (which I believe Mach has claimed to know before). A major charge is that Hellman owns too many fancy cars for someone on a judge's salary.

Not sure of that but there is a a story somewhere that Quintinvale never arrived until 8AM that morning. Apparently something about a cctv of his arrival???Hummmm. Hard to understand how he knows AK is there at 7:45 if he is only showing up at 8...wth.