Proving the Aurora Theater Shooting's official story false

[Travis]

A "lengthy and thorough search and analysis brings up" numerous statements describing Holmes with brown hair after July 1.

A red-light camera issued Holmes a ticket and included a photo of Holmes with brown hair, also after July 1.

Holmes visited the lab in which he worked on the Anshutz Medical Campus each week-day between July 1 and July 11, and nobody described witnessing him with orange hair.

Is any of this an indication that Holmes "probably" had brown hair on July 1?

Is it not possible that he had it orange, dyed it brown, then went back to orange? Or that memories were not accurate and the red-light camera has low resolution?

Are you asking whether "destruction" of evidence occurring in the same location where some of the Holmes case evidence is stored would be admissible as evidence in the Holmes trial if any of the Holmes evidence is misplaced or "destroyed?" I think it would.

I agree with you that "destruction" "of DNA evidence has" nothing "to do with a shooting at a theatre." But, I do think that destruction of evidence in sexual assault cases has something to do with destruction of evidence in a "loss of" life case.

IF they end up losing evidence then a good defense attorney would bring this up. But only if it happens.

 

[Ladewig]

I've read through the entirety of motions and other court docs recently made available in the Holmes case. The 2 points I wish to make are...

1.

Taken from...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-james-holmes-20130605,0,661221.story
...although that article includes numerous lies that can't reasonably be considered mistakes.

Holmes specifically used the phrase "Sixth amendment right" very soon after arriving at the jail. I find that odd, juxtaposed with the other accounts of his behavior at the time.​

This is a skeptic board. What you do or do not find odd cannot be used as evidence to support a wide-ranging conspiracy to achieve a political end by framing someone for murder in a very publicized manner. Furthermore, given how unusual the event itself was, isn't it somewhat impossible to determine which activities were odd and which were not?

Even considering his request and protections under the law, the enforcers of the law and guys who had nothing to cover-up admitted that they engaged in acts that could be seen as a conspiracy to prevent Holmes having any contact with the outside world for 24 hours. Attempts by family members and public defenders to contact Holmes were met with lies about his wishes and his whereabouts. The public defenders were, for a time traveling between detention facilities in efforts to even locate him. They stated that the experience for them was unprecedented.

Repeatedly moving a prisoner in an effort to keep him away from family members and lawyers is quite unethical, but I think the word "unprecedented" might be inaccurate. And while such behavior should be condemned , I do not understand how it can be considered evidence of a conspiracy to frame an innocent person.

And, considering the recent report by Dan Oates that 47 DNA samples in ( exclusively ) sexual assault cases had been destroyed in Aurora people still wonder why we smell conspiracy in the Holmes case?

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited image.

Is there specific exculpatory forensic evidence that you believe has been destroyed or altered? If so, can you describe it?​

 

[ComfySlippers]

You have to realise that, according to the nujobs, nothing ever happened in Aurora before the shooting. No criminal activity of any kind, no bad weather, no lost pets, no speeding tickets, no farting.

Now everything that happens is proof of a conspiracy. Everything is related.

 

[abaddon]

You have to realise that, according to the nujobs, nothing ever happened in Aurora before the shooting. No criminal activity of any kind, no bad weather, no lost pets, no speeding tickets, no farting.

Now everything that happens is proof of a conspiracy. Everything is related.

OK.

Succinct, but unexpected. Especially the farting. I had no idea they were recorded. I accord you two internet points for shrivelling my sphincter out of sheer paranoia.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Holmes specifically used the phrase "Sixth amendment right" very soon after arriving at the jail. I find that odd, juxtaposed with the other accounts of his behavior at the time.

Okay, let's start with the most basic, unless you're already gone again: why do you find this strange?

Secondly, if you find it strange, do you really not expect a person who has just gone on a spree killing to act oddly?

 

[ehcks]

Okay, let's start with the most basic, unless you're already gone again: why do you find this strange?

Secondly, if you find it strange, do you really not expect a person who has just gone on a spree killing to act oddly?

Well, obviously, a guy who walked into a theater and started shooting at everyone has got to be completely sane. Probably the most sane person ever. ALL of the sanity. Why would they act oddly or make strange legal decisions?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Well, obviously, a guy who walked into a theater and started shooting at everyone has got to be completely sane. Probably the most sane person ever. ALL of the sanity. Why would they act oddly or make strange legal decisions?

Of course, had he been behaving completely normally, that too would've been proof of a conspiracy. "He doesn't seem insane at all, clearly he must be CIA operative or something!"...

 

[skepticidal]

Okay, let's start with the most basic, unless you're already gone again: why do you find this strange?

Secondly, if you find it strange, do you really not expect a person who has just gone on a spree killing to act oddly?

I was stating my opinion that I found it strange he would make such a cogent request with such composure of mind, given the accounts of his behavior at the very same time.

He is said to have...

• pretended bags on his hands were puppets,
• dislodged a staple from some papers and attempted to insert it into a wall socket,
• earlier reports of profuse spitting that required he be sheathed in some kind of head-gear

In addition, how many Americans know what the sixth amendment is? And, this was only 1 of 2 quotes by Holmes listed verbatim in official court documents.

Yes, I'm aware that behavior isn't predictable in even everyday circumstances. Yes, I'm aware that, if Holmes had committed any of the acts he is accused of just hours earlier it would not be unusual for him to make equally untypical statements.

So my question to you is, am I totally being unreasonable to perceive his statement as "uncharacteristic" within the circumstances the court documents reveal?

I say "uncharacteristic" because Ladewig made such a point to invalidate my comment, saying that

"What you do or do not find odd cannot be used as evidence to support a wide-ranging conspiracy..."

So, I want to revise my comment by replacing "odd" with "uncharacteristic," which I think does constitute evidence that the accounts of what occurred during those first few hours at the jail are inconsistent.

Since I'm acutely aware of how disingenuous and deceptive with claims of adherence to facts and objectivity some people can be, I'll attempt to head off a predictable response. I'm aware that, in and of itself this line of investigation is unlikely to force a change to any final account of key events.

Therefore, if other witnesses emerge with conflicting accounts or if Holmes is proven to be elsewhere at the time rendering the entire scenario false it's still not enough. But, still I think it's up to the individual to follow what they deem curious.

For instance, I read in the court docs the time of booking Holmes as around 5:00PM. That's over 12 hours post arrest. To me, personally that sounds like an excessive gap in time. Mind you, I'm no expert in these matters.

So, I took the time to compile a spreadsheet of booking summary data for 7 states for 5 years. The average time between arrest and booking is 53 minutes. the largest gap was 2hrs 39 minutes.

What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Holmes? I'm sure one of you could guess, but who will have the _____ to do so?

 

[Skibum]

So my question to you is, am I totally being unreasonable to perceive his statement as "uncharacteristic" within the circumstances the court documents reveal?

How can you possibly determine what is or is not characteristic of someone you know almost nothing about?

What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Holmes? I'm sure one of you could guess, but who will have the _____ to do so?

My best guess would be the scale of the crime. Lots of t's to cross and I's to dot on the massive amount of paperwork they had to fill out describing each charge. Why rush through it? 12 hours seems pretty quick considering they were still processing the crime scene. In the data you collected for your spreadsheet, how many mass murders were there to compare booking times in an apples to apples comparison?

 

[Dissolution]

You can be held without charge for 72 hours in most states, so there was no need to rush it.
ETA: Can you imagine the uproar if someone made a mistake on the paperwork and Holmes walked on a technicality?

You're also saying that Holmes' behaviour was erratic like that information should surprise people, Skepticidal.
Given that his defence is that he's insane, I don't think acting strangely would be classed as uncharacteristic, do you?
He seems to have been in contact with a number of mental health professionals, police discovered several prescription drug bottles at his home and he asked a grad student if they'd heard of Dysphoric Mania a couple of weeks before the shooting.
If he'd have been acting completely rationally, then that would be uncharacteristic.

 

[Muc]

For instance, I read in the court docs the time of booking Holmes as around 5:00PM.

Did you mean you read it in the inmate search at the Arapahoe County website that several conspiracy web sites are pointing to? I know, sounds much less glamorous. According to that search it's 5:35, not 5:00.

That's over 12 hours post arrest. To me, personally that sounds like an excessive gap in time. Mind you, I'm no expert in these matters. So, I took the time to compile a spreadsheet of booking summary data for 7 states for 5 years. The average time between arrest and booking is 53 minutes. the largest gap was 2hrs 39 minutes.

What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Holmes? I'm sure one of you could guess, but who will have the _____ to do so?

Meet Ari Liggett. Arrested with body parts of his mother in his trunk around 2 AM on 10/17/2012 in Greenwood Village, Arapahoe County. Booked at 5:04 PM. First search I did after googling for murder arrests in Arapahoe County.

What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Liggett? Want to guess?

 

[Skibum]

What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Liggett? Want to guess?

It must be a part of the conspiracy. It simply must be, there is absolutely no other reason for it other than some nefarious convoluted plot.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

It must be a part of the conspiracy. It simply must be, there is absolutely no other reason for it other than some nefarious convoluted plot.

Of course, if he was booked quickly after arrest it would be "How was he booked so quickly? They must have had all the documents prepared before the supposed 'crime' was even committed. Everyone knows it takes exactly 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41.1029273 seconds between arrest and booking. Anything longer or shorter than that is clear evidence of a false flag. What? It actually did take exactly 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41.1029273 seconds? Well isn't it odd how PERFECT that time is? We would expect some variation. Even something as simple as somebody tripping over their feet while walking the suspect down the hall would throw the time off. It's impossible that there wasn't SOME sort of variation. It's just too perfect. Clearly this was a false flag"

 

[Azrael 5]

Of course, if he was booked quickly after arrest it would be "How was he booked so quickly? They must have had all the documents prepared before the supposed 'crime' was even committed. Everyone knows it takes exactly 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41.1029273 seconds between arrest and booking. Anything longer or shorter than that is clear evidence of a false flag. What? It actually did take exactly 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41.1029273 seconds? Well isn't it odd how PERFECT that time is? We would expect some variation. Even something as simple as somebody tripping over their feet while walking the suspect down the hall would throw the time off. It's impossible that there wasn't SOME sort of variation. It's just too perfect. Clearly this was a false flag"

Plus has no one noticed: 411029273 9-11 its the illuminati!!

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Of course, if he was booked quickly after arrest it would be "How was he booked so quickly? They must have had all the documents prepared before the supposed 'crime' was even committed. Everyone knows it takes exactly 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41.1029273 seconds between arrest and booking. Anything longer or shorter than that is clear evidence of a false flag. What? It actually did take exactly 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41.1029273 seconds? Well isn't it odd how PERFECT that time is? We would expect some variation. Even something as simple as somebody tripping over their feet while walking the suspect down the hall would throw the time off. It's impossible that there wasn't SOME sort of variation. It's just too perfect. Clearly this was a false flag"

Exactly. Likewise if he had not asked for his Constitutional rights -- "surely a person who was planning to shoot up a theater would read up on the Constitution and what rights he had? Why didn't he ask for his 6th amendment rights?"

 

[plague311]

Unless I am mistaken isn't there a blip in the patriot act stating they don't have to book or even Mirandize a suspect if it appears to be related to terrorism? That way they can get information quicker, I might be wrong. I'm on my kindle right now so research is slow, but I'm fairly positive I'm right

 

[phunk]

There's the public safety exception, which says they don't have to mirandize someone if for example that person may know the location of a bomb or other threat to the public and getting that information is more important.

 

[abaddon]

I was stating my opinion that I found it strange he would make such a cogent request with such composure of mind, given the accounts of his behavior at the very same time.

He is said to have...

• pretended bags on his hands were puppets,
• dislodged a staple from some papers and attempted to insert it into a wall socket,
• earlier reports of profuse spitting that required he be sheathed in some kind of head-gear

In addition, how many Americans know what the sixth amendment is? And, this was only 1 of 2 quotes by Holmes listed verbatim in official court documents.

Yes, I'm aware that behavior isn't predictable in even everyday circumstances. Yes, I'm aware that, if Holmes had committed any of the acts he is accused of just hours earlier it would not be unusual for him to make equally untypical statements.

So my question to you is, am I totally being unreasonable to perceive his statement as "uncharacteristic" within the circumstances the court documents reveal?

I say "uncharacteristic" because Ladewig made such a point to invalidate my comment, saying that



So, I want to revise my comment by replacing "odd" with "uncharacteristic," which I think does constitute evidence that the accounts of what occurred during those first few hours at the jail are inconsistent.

Since I'm acutely aware of how disingenuous and deceptive with claims of adherence to facts and objectivity some people can be, I'll attempt to head off a predictable response. I'm aware that, in and of itself this line of investigation is unlikely to force a change to any final account of key events.

Therefore, if other witnesses emerge with conflicting accounts or if Holmes is proven to be elsewhere at the time rendering the entire scenario false it's still not enough. But, still I think it's up to the individual to follow what they deem curious.

For instance, I read in the court docs the time of booking Holmes as around 5:00PM. That's over 12 hours post arrest. To me, personally that sounds like an excessive gap in time. Mind you, I'm no expert in these matters.

So, I took the time to compile a spreadsheet of booking summary data for 7 states for 5 years. The average time between arrest and booking is 53 minutes. the largest gap was 2hrs 39 minutes.

What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Holmes? I'm sure one of you could guess, but who will have the _____ to do so?

Rightio.

I am unsubscribing this thread, thanks to you.

Before I do, skepticadal, take a moment to consider, retrospect, whatever.

You could continue with the CT crackpottery, and should you so chose, then that is your choice.

For myself, I personally choose not to engage in such buffoonery, because I have a brain.

Adios, this moronic thread is canned.

 

[Azrael 5]

*snip*
What possible reason would account for the over 12 hours delay in booking Holmes? I'm sure one of you could guess, but who will have the _____ to do so?

Do enlighten me,I love a good conspiracy.Lets see...
Were they 1. Hiring an actor and sorting out prosthetics etc.?
2. Feeding him weird drugs so he will say whatever they want?
3.Planting evidence everywhere,his flat,car,person,cinema etc?

All of the above?

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

Farting is considered to be criminal activity?