Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Prevent Atheists From Graduating

[Vortigern99]

Maddening.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...d-not-allow-atheists-to-graduate-high-school/

A group of Arizona politicians — all Republicans, of course — have proposed a law (House Bill 2467) requiring public high school students to recite the following oath in order to graduate:

I, _______, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; so help me God.​

As written, the bill does not exempt atheist students or those of different faiths from the requirement, though Thorpe has pledged to amend the measure. "...I do not want to create a requirement that students or parents may feel uncomfortable with.”

 

[Ziggurat]

Maddening.

Your thread title is wrong. The bill proposes requiring people to say something that an atheist might object to saying. But it doesn't actually prevent atheists from graduating. I'm not saying the bill isn't objectionable, but you haven't accurately represented what it is.

Thorpe has pledged to amend the measure.

If the bolded part of your quote was removed, would you still object?

 

[Floyt]

It shouldn't be a hurdle to atheists, as for them (well, us) it's just an empty phrase tacked onto the end. I wouldn't balk at "hubba-hubba-kablooie" either.

It might be more troublesome for the non-Christian religious.
...Good illustration for why one shouldn't let words acquire that kind of mystical importance for oneself, eh.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I'd object to the creepy uber-patrioticness of it more than the religiosity. Yet again, I'm thankful to be living in CA, where my kids didn't have to take a silly oath just to finish high school.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

can I say "So help me FSM" instead?

 

[Skibum]

requiring public high school students to recite the following oath in order to graduate:

that I take this obligation freely.

 

[A'isha]

Yes, the proposed bill would require high school students graduating in Arizona to tell a lie.

 

[Loss Leader]

I had to sign a similar oath to work for the state of Georgia (as a TA at college, if you can believe it). It was part of a whole bunch of paperwork. I told the lady I wouldn't sign it and she said to just skip it. So, it went in unsigned. Never caused a problem.

Of course, I actually did end up taking the very same oath when I was sworn in to the Georgia Bar. That one I repeated, hand raised, word for word.

 

[Cavemonster]

It shouldn't be a hurdle to atheists, as for them (well, us) it's just an empty phrase tacked onto the end. I wouldn't balk at "hubba-hubba-kablooie" either.

It might be more troublesome for the non-Christian religious.
...Good illustration for why one shouldn't let words acquire that kind of mystical importance for oneself, eh.

I don't think it creates a legal hurdle, but yes, it does create a psychological hurdle to people who take oaths and promises seriously.

If a young atheist holds their word in high regard, then the text of this would require them to make an implied dishonest pledge associated with a very important moment in their life which should be full of pride. I don't know how many atheists it would keep from graduating, very likely none, but it does add an ugly tarnish to what should be a proud moment.

Even within Christianity, I know that Quakers for instance frown pretty firmly on oaths.

Maybe this isn't oppression with a capital O, but it is definitely super gross and unnecessary.

 

[Bluto]

Yes, I take this obligation freely, because if I don't, I won't graduate.

Jeezus, I keep thinking the GOPers will one day decide to get off the crazy train to looneyville, but so far, it seems they're enjoying the ride just too much...

 

[Brown]

We've seen stuff like this before, in North Carolina and in Iowa, for example. See also this thread.

The matter may be easily resolved by giving students the option to swear or affirm (with either group also having the option to omit the "So help me" part). I emphasize the words "easily" ... and "may."

 

[applecorped]

Just words

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

IIRC, Jehova's Witnesses don't like oaths much either..

 

[Ladewig]

I'd object to the creepy uber-patrioticness of it more than the religiosity. Yet again, I'm thankful to be living in CA, where my kids didn't have to take a silly oath just to finish high school.

Indeed. I, too, am more bothered by the content of the oath than by the mention of God. Why do people hoping to have a high school diploma have to swear to uphold and support the Constitution.

If I work to get an amendment repealed, am I in violation of the oath?

...............
ETA: have these legislators stated what benefits they expect to arise from requiring such an oath? Do they have some idea or vision of how the state will be improved?

 

[Cavemonster]

Just words

Words are the vessels of meaning and emotion.

I'm if during your mother's funeral somebody stood up and said vulgar things about her you wouldn't appreciate it.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Good luck with this. Its Arizona

A church on every corner but the attitude is that the church is god's house, and city hall is the people's house, and you better not take god's stuff out of his house

 

[Vortigern99]

Your thread title is wrong. The bill proposes requiring people to say something that an atheist might object to saying. But it doesn't actually prevent atheists from graduating. I'm not saying the bill isn't objectionable, but you haven't accurately represented what it is.

If the bolded part of your quote was removed, would you still object?

I copied the thread title from the article, so if it's in error it's not one of creation but of perpetuation. In either case, I submit the thread title is an accurate description of the bill in question. As the bill is currently worded, an atheist has to say the words "So help me God" to graduate. Hence: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Prevent Atheists From Graduating.

If the "so help me God" portion were removed (which to date it has not been), then yes, problem solved.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Another waste of taxpayer dollars the Republics seem to have no problem with.

 

[Loss Leader]

Another waste of taxpayer dollars the Republics seem to have no problem with.

Politicians love solving problems that don't exist. They're so much easier than the problems that do.

 

[pipelineaudio]

On the plus side, these idiots couldn't have picked a more politically suicidal time to bring this up