Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Prevent Atheists From Graduating

[The Don]

Late to the party as usual and as a childless UK resident UK citizen well past U.S. high school graduation I have no personal dog in this fight but I have three problems with the oath as proposed:

• The need to bring God into it, not only does it affect atheists and agnostics but also adherents to some other religions
• The wording of the oath in general, they're graduating from high school not joining the marines. I cannot see how such an oath should be a prerequisite to high school graduation
• The statement that the oath has been amde willingly, for some it will have been made under duress. As pointed out upthread, there some groups who do not make oaths.

IMO it's not an attack on atheists or any other group but seems an attempt to somehow turn all graduates into patriotic Christians

 

[beren]

Do they still make Children swear allegiance to the flag in the US public schools?

i wander how many of those doing so are sincere or jsut do it becasue they have to.

I am a teacher, and I don't say it.

 

[pgwenthold]

Late to the party as usual and as a childless UK resident UK citizen well past U.S. high school graduation I have no personal dog in this fight but I have three problems with the oath as proposed:

• The need to bring God into it, not only does it affect atheists and agnostics but also adherents to some other religions
• The wording of the oath in general, they're graduating from high school not joining the marines. I cannot see how such an oath should be a prerequisite to high school graduation
• The statement that the oath has been amde willingly, for some it will have been made under duress. As pointed out upthread, there some groups who do not make oaths.

IMO it's not an attack on atheists or any other group but seems an attempt to somehow turn all graduates into patriotic Christians

How about the fact that there is no requirement the graduating students are even citizens of the US. Why should they be required to be patriotic Americans?

 

[Polaris]

Did they ever "make" them? I don't remember anyone getting in trouble for not doing it, and I was one of the people not doing it.

We were never forced to either, directly, but there was a thinly veiled "say it or else" threat from certain teachers when we started getting to the age where we questioned it.

But those teachers were douche-nozzles in all other aspects of their existence as well.

 

[cwalner]

How about the fact that there is no requirement the graduating students are even citizens of the US. Why should they be required to be patriotic Americans?

I would assume that the logic is that since the schools are publicly funded with taxes, we should get something back for giving foreigners a free education. We are talking about the AZ legislature, which has developed a track record to being hostile to immigrants.

I think you may have stumbled upon the real reason for this bill, it is primarily another attack on immigrants. I agree with those above who think that the slight against atheists was just them not thinking about it or not caring. As others have pointed out, the text is lifted almost verbatim from existing loyalty oaths, which all include in the standard form 'So help me, God'. They were just being lazy and didn't bother to note that those other oaths also allow secular affirmations which are essentially the same but don't reference god

 

[The Don]

How about the fact that there is no requirement the graduating students are even citizens of the US. Why should they be required to be patriotic Americans?

I hadn't even thought of that - excellent point.

 

[Olowkow]

Originally Posted by theprestige
Some of us find the absurd level of seriousness on display in this thread amusing and meritorious of ridicule.

I'm guessing that meant "worthy of ridicule". [/vocab nazi] I'm accustomed to hypercorrection.

mer·i·to·ri·ous

/ˈmeriˌtôrēəs/
Adjective

• Deserving reward or praise: "a medal for meritorious conduct".
• (of an action or claim) Likely to succeed on the merits of the case.

Ok. Perhaps.

Still, the problem I, and perhaps others in the thread, run up against with these "Poes" is that conservative claims have proven time and again to be so outlandish and paranoid that it is in fact impossible to determine with any certainty that they are not the work of a deranged individual who actually believes what is being posted, particularly when the body of work is not lengthy.

Now, what I personally find amusing and noteworthy is the fact that the resident conservatives (your "some of us" I suppose) are the only ones who appear to have quickly diagnosed this Poe. I guess that means that the echo chamber does have its limits, and those not occupying the inner sanctum just can't properly grok the boundaries as quickly as its denizens. I'll stick with rationality myself, but yours is a useful talent it seems.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I'm glad to hear that "just words" are no big deal and that students are free to lie anyway. I'm working on my bill requiring an oath entitled "Hitler Did Not Kill Any Jews, The Moon Landing is Fake, 9/11 was an inside job, and the U.S. Relied On Financial Help From Stalin's USSR," named for its most important subjects.